Gifted Programs at Charter Schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC charter schools do not need no does DCPS some old fashioned pull-out gifted program that will just cause more havoc like we read on the suburbs' forums.

Every time one of these threads comes up, I ask for research that proves that gifted programs have tangible benefits. I have yet to receive a response.

This is so tired but let me explain again. Its not so much that DC needs gifted programs but they need to admit that there is no way a teacher can handle a class of kids two grades BEHIND along with kids are are a grade AHEAD. The teacher ALWAYs has to teach to the slowest kids becuase of test score worries. Then the behavioral issues really kick in by 2nd or 3rd grade when a third of the class is is on a K level. So what we really need is to pull out all the kids who are below grade level and get them the help they need. Then the teacher can actually teach a class at the appropriate speed and level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Language charters are a filter for gifted children - or at least advanced programming. That's one of the reasons everyone wants in.

No. DCPS does not do it as well.

Now how's that?

Also wonder how does montessori support gifted kids. Although I know what the generic answer would be (kids choose their own pathways and pace etc).

My own very advanced child is challenged in Montessori in a way that traditional schools couldn't offer without very small class sizes and individual attention. If a child is ready to move on to mastering the next skill they are able to, without having to wait for others to catch up. In practice this means that a 1st grader can do division and multiplication to many decimal places, or spend hours understanding and exploring fractions and decimal fractions without being told that they'll get to that in 2nd grade (or 4th or 5th). If they are interested in calculating the basic area of a square they can look around the school and find larger and more complex shapes to calculate area for, or learn how to calculate the area of a circle -- and they do this in uninterrupted three hour work periods. If they want to learn how an airplane works they will do the research independently or in a group and perhaps decide to go to the Air and Space museum to learn more, or interview a pilot -- then write a report. They will propose a field trip "going out" and plan it all themselves, from budget to travel plans, and including making phone calls. yes, at 6 or 7 years old. the mixed age format means that kids learn from those older than them but also that they are not on a rigid timetable to learn certain things at certain times, and that they are role models for younger kids.

That is so cool. That's what I wish I'd had as a kid

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC charter schools do not need no does DCPS some old fashioned pull-out gifted program that will just cause more havoc like we read on the suburbs' forums.

Every time one of these threads comes up, I ask for research that proves that gifted programs have tangible benefits. I have yet to receive a response.

This is so tired but let me explain again. Its not so much that DC needs gifted programs but they need to admit that there is no way a teacher can handle a class of kids two grades BEHIND along with kids are are a grade AHEAD. The teacher ALWAYs has to teach to the slowest kids becuase of test score worries. Then the behavioral issues really kick in by 2nd or 3rd grade when a third of the class is is on a K level. So what we really need is to pull out all the kids who are below grade level and get them the help they need. Then the teacher can actually teach a class at the appropriate speed and level.

And yes, pull out gifted programs can also have benefits for some kids who are otherwise bored by the material.

[Anonymous]

I also learned that the brightest and most academic poor minority kids generally won't go as far in life without GT programs/white and Asian classmates from a young age as with. Great data, poor data, or no data, it's a no brainer.

Almost everybody I've ever met who questions the value of ES and MS GT programs in urban centers didn't need them to break into the middle class.

[Anonymous]

In my experience, that is true. The kids without the money and resources need some kind of pull out program -- be it "gifted" or some particularly challenging school -- the most.

[Anonymous]

"Every time one of these threads comes up, I ask for research that proves that gifted programs have tangible benefits. I have yet to receive a response."

As in - let's do a large scale, double-blind study giving half the gifted kids access to appropriate programing and the other half no access, and the compare the outcomes - suicide rates, imprisonment or arrest rates, rates of depression? Awesome - great idea!

[Anonymous]

okay, Dramatic Donna.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC charter schools do not need no does DCPS some old fashioned pull-out gifted program that will just cause more havoc like we read on the suburbs' forums.

Every time one of these threads comes up, I ask for research that proves that gifted programs have tangible benefits. I have yet to receive a response.

This is so tired but let me explain again. Its not so much that DC needs gifted programs but they need to admit that there is no way a teacher can handle a class of kids two grades BEHIND along with kids are are a grade AHEAD. The teacher ALWAYs has to teach to the slowest kids becuase of test score worries. Then the behavioral issues really kick in by 2nd or 3rd grade when a third of the class is is on a K level. So what we really need is to pull out all the kids who are below grade level and get them the help they need. Then the teacher can actually teach a class at the appropriate speed and level.

... and this is why families don't want to send their children to high poverty schools.

Sorry for pointing out the obvious, but every now and again somebody gets self-important and starts throwing around terms like "the poors" (because they just can't help themselves sounding ignorant and offensive). It's good parenting to protect your children from bad schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:YY has very small class sizes (approx 17) which is why the JKLM families leave their IB. The scores are better and the facility is much better.

What percentage of IB families from JKLM attend YY?

BS that JKLM families leave their IB schools for YY for small class sizes. A few do it for the Mandarin, though the Chinese isn't very well taught. You just can't do immersion well without native speakers in the school, admins or students. No, YY's facility isn't better than the newly renovated JKLM facilities, especially Janney and Lafayette. YY boosters will claim anything. Why, because they need a longer WL? They're searching for elusive self respect?

I have kids at Janney and we routinely have kids leave Yu Ying to come TO Janney.

Ha! Shenanigans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC charter schools do not need no does DCPS some old fashioned pull-out gifted program that will just cause more havoc like we read on the suburbs' forums.

Every time one of these threads comes up, I ask for research that proves that gifted programs have tangible benefits. I have yet to receive a response.

This is so tired but let me explain again. Its not so much that DC needs gifted programs but they need to admit that there is no way a teacher can handle a class of kids two grades BEHIND along with kids are are a grade AHEAD. The teacher ALWAYs has to teach to the slowest kids becuase of test score worries. Then the behavioral issues really kick in by 2nd or 3rd grade when a third of the class is is on a K level. So what we really need is to pull out all the kids who are below grade level and get them the help they need. Then the teacher can actually teach a class at the appropriate speed and level.

This! The academic achievement level - by 4th grade - can vary so widely (and wildly). A teacher of 28 students is expected to raise the accomplishment of 10 year olds who are everywhere between 1st and 6th grade. It simply isn't possible without some structure to address the differing levels of accomplishment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I also learned that the brightest and most academic poor minority kids generally won't go as far in life without GT programs/white and Asian classmates from a young age as with. Great data, poor data, or no data, it's a no brainer.

Almost everybody I've ever met who questions the value of ES and MS GT programs in urban centers didn't need them to break into the middle class.

Yet, it's the middle class parents who are clamoring for the gifted programs. They are also the ones furtively prepping their kids for the screening tests (well documented from Fairfax to NYC).

If it is such a no brainer that these programs are beneficial, there should be scads of studies supporting that assertion. These studies should endeavor to separate the effects of gifted education from the effects of growing up in the wealthy , well educated households that shoehorn their kids into these programs.

Here are a couple of summaries of studies that suggest that the programs don't matter.

https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/282532/

http://www.slate.com/blogs/schooled/2015/09/30/gifted_and_talented_programs_under_scrutiny_white_and_asian_students_have.html

[Anonymous]

The two articles barely skim the surface of the issues. I don't like how the Slate piece derides "white and Asian" parents prepping kids for GT tests as "gaming the system." Where's the gaming in helping kids prepare for any tough test? If my hard-scrabble immigrant parents hadn't played this "game," sacrificing time and money they didn't really have to send me to quality test prep on weekends, I couldn't have attended a NYC magnet high school, the best thing that's ever happened to me. The complaints in the article are yet another example of how immigrants, particularly East Asian immigrants, are seen as not playing by the rules in this country - damn them, they work too hard for the good of society, and expect their kids to do the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In my experience, that is true. The kids without the money and resources need some kind of pull out program -- be it "gifted" or some particularly challenging school -- the most.

I am right now in a small village in Eastern Europe where elementary school is year round (3 tracks to accommodate all the students).
There are 5 old computers in the entire school. The teachers use basic textbooks and a green chalk board. There are no Promethean boards, no LCD projectors , no listening centers, very minimal technology.
I was invited to the 3rd grade class to help students with their English pronunciation. English is their 3rd language, being taught 3 times a week (45 minutes each)
All the kids were able to read from their English textbook and answer the questions in writing. They lacked oral fluency and so did their teacher.
I then stayed for the other subjects and visited other grade levels . Almost every student was able to follow the written directions. This is the only school the village has so there's no such thing as gifted and talented; however there is daily music and chess instruction for all students.
So I truly do not get it when people complain that students do not perform well in the capital of the USA because the school lacks funding.
Instead of spending so much time on constant testing, writing measurement topics making sure mastery is reached or else reteach the same thing again and again, let the teachers follow a certain curriculum.
However, this won't work in the USA because education is such a big business, with lucrative charters mushrooming right and left, because they have something "innovative" to offer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my experience, that is true. The kids without the money and resources need some kind of pull out program -- be it "gifted" or some particularly challenging school -- the most.

I am right now in a small village in Eastern Europe where elementary school is year round (3 tracks to accommodate all the students).
There are 5 old computers in the entire school. The teachers use basic textbooks and a green chalk board. There are no Promethean boards, no LCD projectors , no listening centers, very minimal technology.
I was invited to the 3rd grade class to help students with their English pronunciation. English is their 3rd language, being taught 3 times a week (45 minutes each)
All the kids were able to read from their English textbook and answer the questions in writing. They lacked oral fluency and so did their teacher.
I then stayed for the other subjects and visited other grade levels . Almost every student was able to follow the written directions. This is the only school the village has so there's no such thing as gifted and talented; however there is daily music and chess instruction for all students.
So I truly do not get it when people complain that students do not perform well in the capital of the USA because the school lacks funding.
Instead of spending so much time on constant testing, writing measurement topics making sure mastery is reached or else reteach the same thing again and again, let the teachers follow a certain curriculum.
However, this won't work in the USA because education is such a big business, with lucrative charters mushrooming right and left, because they have something "innovative" to offer.

How is the generational poverty in that village compared to DC? Are most of the fathers in jail, dead, or on their way there? Do they kids have role models and motivation to succeed via school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In my experience, that is true. The kids without the money and resources need some kind of pull out program -- be it "gifted" or some particularly challenging school -- the most.

I know kids in DC who go to KIPP for that reason (though the "we need gifted programs!!" parents on DCUM wouldn't touch KIPP with a 10 ft poll. Also, Banneker.)