Rezoning from Jackson to Thoreau

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some thoughts:

First meeting was tonight. Seems like the overwhelming input form Oakton ES was "YES -- ASAP."

If Oakton ES, Mosby Woods and the remaining part of Marshall Road are re-zoned to Thoreau, Jackson will no longer be a feeder to Oakton HS. Jackson will be feeding Falls Church only (I think). The only exception would be AAP kids zoned for Thoreau who choose Jackson. I can see why LJMS would want to keep its status as a center (to draw in some high scoring AAP kids into their mix), but socially, it might not be advantageous for the Oakton-bound AAP kids b/c they wouldn't know very many other kids when they arrive at Oakton HS. But, maybe that doesn't matter as much. The Oakton-bound AAP who go to Thoreau will have a much bigger cohort of kids moving on to HS b/c there will be about 300+ kids moving from Thoreau to Oakton.

LJMS is going to take a big hit with SES and test pass rates. But, if nothing happens, then it isn't fair to the LJMS kids either b/c they are over-crowded and the neighboring school is far under-capacity. Re-zoning based on completely neutral factors (i.e. distance, numbers, etc.) may very well have an effect that makes LJMS much less diverse and lower income. I guess that's the real effect of housing on schools (i.e. apartments = more minority, less HHI; SFH = more white, higher SES).

Seems like this will have a really negative impact on the remaining Gen Ed kids at Jackson.

As someone with a center as a base school, I disagree. Our experience with a gen ed kid at a center has been universally negative, and this idea that being an AAP center benefits the gen ed kids is a load of crap. It diverts school resources to AAP and packs more kids who need more help in fewer classrooms. We are pulling one kid from public next year because the base/center school can't meet their needs.

Thoreau was renovated/expanded with an eye to relieving overcrowding at other middle schools (Jackson and, to a lesser extent, Kilmer) and to better align the HS pyramids so there aren't a handful of kids that get split off from the group they've gone to school with for years at the HS level. They can take more students comfortably.

I don't understand why you think this is relevant to the Jackson/Thoreau redistricting. Can you explain?

Under the proposal, Jackson will remain an AAP center, and the current disparities between the Gen Ed and AAP populations likely will increase. And Thoreau will become a split feeder to three high schools - Oakton, Madison and Marshall - instead of only two. How does that improve "alignment"?

It just seemed to me like a better option might have been to make Thoreau the AAP option for the students whose base school is already Thoreau, and see how many kids that would add, before moving some of the highest-income neighborhoods now zoned for Jackson to Thoreau.

Are they not doing that already?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because Oakton High kids that live in OES, MRES and MWES really live in a. Vienna and/or b. Play VYI sports. 90% of LJMS kids live in falls church and play a different league.

Please stop with the nonsense. Vienna parents whose kids are zoned for Langley, McLean, or Marshall feeders don't complain. It's only attending a Falls Church HS feeder that brings out arguments about sports leagues and the like.

And Jackson kids currently live in Oakton, Vienna, Fairfax, Falls Church and Annandale - it's not correct at all to claim 90% live in Falls Church.

[Anonymous]

Well 90% go to FCHS. The school participates in the FCHS homecoming-not OHS homecoming, though. So you spare me with you nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some thoughts:

First meeting was tonight. Seems like the overwhelming input form Oakton ES was "YES -- ASAP."

If Oakton ES, Mosby Woods and the remaining part of Marshall Road are re-zoned to Thoreau, Jackson will no longer be a feeder to Oakton HS. Jackson will be feeding Falls Church only (I think). The only exception would be AAP kids zoned for Thoreau who choose Jackson. I can see why LJMS would want to keep its status as a center (to draw in some high scoring AAP kids into their mix), but socially, it might not be advantageous for the Oakton-bound AAP kids b/c they wouldn't know very many other kids when they arrive at Oakton HS. But, maybe that doesn't matter as much. The Oakton-bound AAP who go to Thoreau will have a much bigger cohort of kids moving on to HS b/c there will be about 300+ kids moving from Thoreau to Oakton.

LJMS is going to take a big hit with SES and test pass rates. But, if nothing happens, then it isn't fair to the LJMS kids either b/c they are over-crowded and the neighboring school is far under-capacity. Re-zoning based on completely neutral factors (i.e. distance, numbers, etc.) may very well have an effect that makes LJMS much less diverse and lower income. I guess that's the real effect of housing on schools (i.e. apartments = more minority, less HHI; SFH = more white, higher SES).

Seems like this will have a really negative impact on the remaining Gen Ed kids at Jackson.

As someone with a center as a base school, I disagree. Our experience with a gen ed kid at a center has been universally negative, and this idea that being an AAP center benefits the gen ed kids is a load of crap. It diverts school resources to AAP and packs more kids who need more help in fewer classrooms. We are pulling one kid from public next year because the base/center school can't meet their needs.

Thoreau was renovated/expanded with an eye to relieving overcrowding at other middle schools (Jackson and, to a lesser extent, Kilmer) and to better align the HS pyramids so there aren't a handful of kids that get split off from the group they've gone to school with for years at the HS level. They can take more students comfortably.

I don't understand why you think this is relevant to the Jackson/Thoreau redistricting. Can you explain?

Under the proposal, Jackson will remain an AAP center, and the current disparities between the Gen Ed and AAP populations likely will increase. And Thoreau will become a split feeder to three high schools - Oakton, Madison and Marshall - instead of only two. How does that improve "alignment"?

It just seemed to me like a better option might have been to make Thoreau the AAP option for the students whose base school is already Thoreau, and see how many kids that would add, before moving some of the highest-income neighborhoods now zoned for Jackson to Thoreau.

Are they not doing that already?

AAP kids zoned for Thoreau have the option to go to Jackson b/c it is a center and Thoreau is not. Thoreau has been beefing up their AAP program in the past couple of years and about 2/3rd of AAP kids choose to stay at Thoreau now. 50 AAP in 7th and 50 in 8th choose to go to Jackson. That's 100 kids total. That is not nearly enough to offset the overcrowding at Jackson. And if Thoreau is not made into a center, those kids cannot be kept at Thoreau. FWIW, I am fine with Thoreau being made into a center (it will affect my child -- we will have the choice). I think it is silly that any kids have a "choice" to make another school more crowded for the the kids who HAVE to attend it. They don't have a choice to opt out of the crowded school. My impression is that those who choose LJMS over Thoreau for AAP are typically more intense about getting into TJHSST (every thread seems to lead back to TJ, right?). Those who aren't "gunners" go to Thoreau.

Re: the question of "alignment" -- I think the alignment argument is a limited one. Right now a smaller subset of kids from Marshall Road are not aligned with their elementary peers -- most of whom go to Thoreau. At Oakson ES, about half go to Thoreau and half go to Jackson. So, this rezoning would keep elementary school cohorts together for middle school.... BUT, it would still split up kids (from the same elementary schools) for High school. So, the alignment is temporary.

The real argument for the rezoning is sheer numbers at LJMS + capacity at Thoreau + taking kids furthest from LJMS and putting them at Thoreau (which is closer for them). The tenor at Thoreau will change some b/c right now it is very much Madison focused. It will be more of a mixing and separating pot... for better and for worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well 90% go to FCHS. The school participates in the FCHS homecoming-not OHS homecoming, though. So you spare me with you nonsense.

Not true. The students within the base boundaries of Jackson split 69% FCHS and 31% Oakton, according to FCPS, as of 9/30/16. Add the AAP kids and the percentage going to FCHS would go down further. The 90% number is made up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well 90% go to FCHS. The school participates in the FCHS homecoming-not OHS homecoming, though. So you spare me with you nonsense.

Not true. The students within the base boundaries of Jackson split 69% FCHS and 31% Oakton, according to FCPS, as of 9/30/16. Add the AAP kids and the percentage going to FCHS would go down further. The 90% number is made up.

There are 400 current Oakton pyramid students attending LJMS and about 100 Thoreau (so probably mostly Madison pyramid) AAP transfers. So, out of their student population of roughly 1400 (at LJMS), 500 are not in Falls CHurch pyramid. (The second PP above is correct -- roughly 1/3 are not FCHS pyramid kids).