Homework load in 5th and 6th grades at basis dc?

[Anonymous]

NP. Have you visited schools in other countries? Finland? Singapore? China? Poland? Any of them? They do not spark joy. Schools are for educating children. Only in America do we expect beautiful facilities. There are NO studies claiming windows, fields, pretty walls, etc. are necessary to educate children. This is why we suck. We spend money on the wrong things and not on our teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wonderful, BASIS made it happen. I'm left wondering at what cost. I'm thinking of my introverted sibling, the one who struggled with depression and anxiety throughout college (Ivy League school), after a high-pressure high school experience.

If a kid isn't very happy for years on end growing up, though short of depressed, is that the best we can do for our UMC children?

When I visited BASIS recently, the building seemed worse than I expected. I found myself asking, where's the library? The stage. The basketball court on the roof that you see in some urban schools without green space. The windows in the cafeteria. The colors on most of the walls. The space alone seems designed to test the enthusiasm of even the brightest sparks. Maybe the HW load alone is manageable. But add the bad building and maybe not.

Then don’t enroll your child. No one is forcing you to. Not every school is going to suit every child or every family.

[Anonymous]

That's the lame answer we get in DC from politicians for our hard-earned DC tax dollars. Don't like what may be your only viable middle school option, simply don't enroll your child.

What would be wrong with BASIS being housed in an appealing building? What would be wrong with our crappy IB school offering rigor? What would be wrong with Deal not being packed to the gills? What would be wrong with Wash Latin able to take most applicants (vs. not even 20%).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. Have you visited schools in other countries? Finland? Singapore? China? Poland? Any of them? They do not spark joy. Schools are for educating children. Only in America do we expect beautiful facilities. There are NO studies claiming windows, fields, pretty walls, etc. are necessary to educate children. This is why we suck. We spend money on the wrong things and not on our teachers.

PP -- Have you? A lot of Singaporean and Finnish schools don't have the dank, windowless appearance of Basis. I am an immigrant and realizes that while the educational system in the US as a whole "sucks" to use your phrasing, compare say MA on the PISA rankings v/s Finland and you'd be surprised. Again, the OECD/PISA rankings for China are not for China as a whole, but for Shanghai.

Back to the topic of the thread - Note that Basis is not supposed to be "any old school", it is supposed be the rigorous ideal to which DCPS should be aspiring (at least in the eyes of parents). But we were not impressed by our visit there. Again, it is not just about homework and rigor. Simple things like science labs for upperclassmen are pretty minimal and cannot be expected to be anything but, given the space and logistics. We asked for instance about the Physics labs and were told that computer simulations were used extensively for many concepts. We are physicists and having both taught undergraduates and graduate students, know that simulations are useful after students have gained an understanding of the "physical" system and the underlying natural laws.

While we agree that Basis may be the more "academic" alternative that DCPS lacks, especially EOTP or the Hill but kids do need the trappings like brightly lit classrooms, a good art program, sports etc. to thrive and succeed.

[Anonymous]

Basis is very honest about what it expected of students and what the curriculum is.

If you don't like the idea of it, don't enroll your kid.

If your kid isn't strong in math and organization, don't enroll your kid.

If you think it can be done better elsewhere, don't enroll your kid.

If you think that you will change the program like you did at your kid's elementary school, don't enroll your kid.

If you think 12 year olds are too young, don't enroll your kid.

If you think the building is what is the most important, don't enroll your kid.

--from a parent of a Basis lower school student who is thriving

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That's the lame answer we get in DC from politicians for our hard-earned DC tax dollars. Don't like what may be your only viable middle school option, simply don't enroll your child.

What would be wrong with BASIS being housed in an appealing building? What would be wrong with our crappy IB school offering rigor? What would be wrong with Deal not being packed to the gills? What would be wrong with Wash Latin able to take most applicants (vs. not even 20%).

BASIS owns that building. So it isn't going to change. In a school choice system, which is what our charter system is, you decide where to apply. If a building is a show-stopper, choose something else.

Washington Latin is requesting to replicate, so it will offer another 90 seats in fall 2020. Although if by rigor you mean acceleration, you aren't going to find much of it there.

I have no idea what to say about your crappy IB; we don't even have a MS where I live, just a crappy EC. But even families at the highest performing DCPS MSs aren't complaining about rigor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Have you visited schools in other countries? Finland? Singapore? China? Poland? Any of them? They do not spark joy. Schools are for educating children. Only in America do we expect beautiful facilities. There are NO studies claiming windows, fields, pretty walls, etc. are necessary to educate children. This is why we suck. We spend money on the wrong things and not on our teachers.

PP -- Have you? A lot of Singaporean and Finnish schools don't have the dank, windowless appearance of Basis. I am an immigrant and realizes that while the educational system in the US as a whole "sucks" to use your phrasing, compare say MA on the PISA rankings v/s Finland and you'd be surprised. Again, the OECD/PISA rankings for China are not for China as a whole, but for Shanghai.

Back to the topic of the thread - Note that Basis is not supposed to be "any old school", it is supposed be the rigorous ideal to which DCPS should be aspiring (at least in the eyes of parents). But we were not impressed by our visit there. Again, it is not just about homework and rigor. Simple things like science labs for upperclassmen are pretty minimal and cannot be expected to be anything but, given the space and logistics. We asked for instance about the Physics labs and were told that computer simulations were used extensively for many concepts. We are physicists and having both taught undergraduates and graduate students, know that simulations are useful after students have gained an understanding of the "physical" system and the underlying natural laws.

While we agree that Basis may be the more "academic" alternative that DCPS lacks, especially EOTP or the Hill but kids do need the trappings like brightly lit classrooms, a good art program, sports etc. to thrive and succeed.

I'm a BASIS parent and absolutely do not at all think that its program should be replicated by DCPS. It is really different and isn't something that all families will want. Charters are supposed to be different and innovative -- and incubate new ideas that can be replicated in part by others. DCPS did actually hire a former BASIS DC administrator a few years ago. She was in charge of the 6-12 DCPS math curriculum, and the major initiative was offering Algebra at every DCPS MS and EC, not just a handful of schools.

For those who may stumble on this thread in the future, I will share what I think makes it worthwhile for students who do want more challenge. Starting high school content in middle school sets a pace that puts students on track for at minimum 1 AP class in 9th, 2 in 10th and 3 in 11th (that number is required of all, as is passing a minimum of 1). Many parents absolutely don't want that for their kids -- which is fine. Most students in the high school are not taking ANY APs in 12th, but rather are doing post-AP seminars in science, humanities, math, and foreign language. This schedule also leaves time for a mandatory "college counseling" class that lasts 2 trimesters. During that class, students have time to focus on drafting college essays and applications, researching places to apply, and in-school time to find and apply to scholarships. There are 2 college counselors, so the ratio is far lower and the guidance is more personal than is possible at other schools. About 1/3 of students elect to pursue an optional capstone project for the last ~3 months of the senior year, on any topic of their choosing under the supervision of a teacher they choose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Have you visited schools in other countries? Finland? Singapore? China? Poland? Any of them? They do not spark joy. Schools are for educating children. Only in America do we expect beautiful facilities. There are NO studies claiming windows, fields, pretty walls, etc. are necessary to educate children. This is why we suck. We spend money on the wrong things and not on our teachers.

PP -- Have you? A lot of Singaporean and Finnish schools don't have the dank, windowless appearance of Basis. I am an immigrant and realizes that while the educational system in the US as a whole "sucks" to use your phrasing, compare say MA on the PISA rankings v/s Finland and you'd be surprised. Again, the OECD/PISA rankings for China are not for China as a whole, but for Shanghai.

Back to the topic of the thread - Note that Basis is not supposed to be "any old school", it is supposed be the rigorous ideal to which DCPS should be aspiring (at least in the eyes of parents). But we were not impressed by our visit there. Again, it is not just about homework and rigor. Simple things like science labs for upperclassmen are pretty minimal and cannot be expected to be anything but, given the space and logistics. We asked for instance about the Physics labs and were told that computer simulations were used extensively for many concepts. We are physicists and having both taught undergraduates and graduate students, know that simulations are useful after students have gained an understanding of the "physical" system and the underlying natural laws.

While we agree that Basis may be the more "academic" alternative that DCPS lacks, especially EOTP or the Hill but kids do need the trappings like brightly lit classrooms, a good art program, sports etc. to thrive and succeed.

I'm a BASIS parent and absolutely do not at all think that its program should be replicated by DCPS. It is really different and isn't something that all families will want. Charters are supposed to be different and innovative -- and incubate new ideas that can be replicated in part by others. DCPS did actually hire a former BASIS DC administrator a few years ago. She was in charge of the 6-12 DCPS math curriculum, and the major initiative was offering Algebra at every DCPS MS and EC, not just a handful of schools.

For those who may stumble on this thread in the future, I will share what I think makes it worthwhile for students who do want more challenge. Starting high school content in middle school sets a pace that puts students on track for at minimum 1 AP class in 9th, 2 in 10th and 3 in 11th (that number is required of all, as is passing a minimum of 1). Many parents absolutely don't want that for their kids -- which is fine. Most students in the high school are not taking ANY APs in 12th, but rather are doing post-AP seminars in science, humanities, math, and foreign language. This schedule also leaves time for a mandatory "college counseling" class that lasts 2 trimesters. During that class, students have time to focus on drafting college essays and applications, researching places to apply, and in-school time to find and apply to scholarships. There are 2 college counselors, so the ratio is far lower and the guidance is more personal than is possible at other schools. About 1/3 of students elect to pursue an optional capstone project for the last ~3 months of the senior year, on any topic of their choosing under the supervision of a teacher they choose.

I'm genuinely curious and grappling with our decision as well (for DS in 5th). So one cannot (in theory) go down this path in Wilson for a kid who can handle it?

[Anonymous]

At Wilson you can’t take an AP exam in 9th. Honors Bio/Chem/Physics content is covered in MS at BASIS.

Kids can absolutely get to the same place (4-year colleges) at either school but there are differences. At BASIS many students graduate with 10-12 AP classes and passing AP calculus is a graduation requirement. BASIS allows students to take APs as electives instead of art, music, robotics — although they have offer those classes too. BASIS students are also exempt from some required DCPS classes (ie PE) leaving room for other things.

Students at BASIS can also get Pass-Fail credit for an outside activity, such as a travel sport, dance, theatre or music program that requires practice a few days a week and leave school before the last period of the day to make it easier to make participation easier to manage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Have you visited schools in other countries? Finland? Singapore? China? Poland? Any of them? They do not spark joy. Schools are for educating children. Only in America do we expect beautiful facilities. There are NO studies claiming windows, fields, pretty walls, etc. are necessary to educate children. This is why we suck. We spend money on the wrong things and not on our teachers.

PP -- Have you? A lot of Singaporean and Finnish schools don't have the dank, windowless appearance of Basis. I am an immigrant and realizes that while the educational system in the US as a whole "sucks" to use your phrasing, compare say MA on the PISA rankings v/s Finland and you'd be surprised. Again, the OECD/PISA rankings for China are not for China as a whole, but for Shanghai.

Back to the topic of the thread - Note that Basis is not supposed to be "any old school", it is supposed be the rigorous ideal to which DCPS should be aspiring (at least in the eyes of parents). But we were not impressed by our visit there. Again, it is not just about homework and rigor. Simple things like science labs for upperclassmen are pretty minimal and cannot be expected to be anything but, given the space and logistics. We asked for instance about the Physics labs and were told that computer simulations were used extensively for many concepts. We are physicists and having both taught undergraduates and graduate students, know that simulations are useful after students have gained an understanding of the "physical" system and the underlying natural laws.

While we agree that Basis may be the more "academic" alternative that DCPS lacks, especially EOTP or the Hill but kids do need the trappings like brightly lit classrooms, a good art program, sports etc. to thrive and succeed.

I'm a BASIS parent and absolutely do not at all think that its program should be replicated by DCPS. It is really different and isn't something that all families will want. Charters are supposed to be different and innovative -- and incubate new ideas that can be replicated in part by others. DCPS did actually hire a former BASIS DC administrator a few years ago. She was in charge of the 6-12 DCPS math curriculum, and the major initiative was offering Algebra at every DCPS MS and EC, not just a handful of schools.

For those who may stumble on this thread in the future, I will share what I think makes it worthwhile for students who do want more challenge. Starting high school content in middle school sets a pace that puts students on track for at minimum 1 AP class in 9th, 2 in 10th and 3 in 11th (that number is required of all, as is passing a minimum of 1). Many parents absolutely don't want that for their kids -- which is fine. Most students in the high school are not taking ANY APs in 12th, but rather are doing post-AP seminars in science, humanities, math, and foreign language. This schedule also leaves time for a mandatory "college counseling" class that lasts 2 trimesters. During that class, students have time to focus on drafting college essays and applications, researching places to apply, and in-school time to find and apply to scholarships. There are 2 college counselors, so the ratio is far lower and the guidance is more personal than is possible at other schools. About 1/3 of students elect to pursue an optional capstone project for the last ~3 months of the senior year, on any topic of their choosing under the supervision of a teacher they choose.

I work as an independent college counselor. I'm DC based, but work remotely with most of my clients. I haven't worked with BASIS DC clients yet, but I've counseled a number of BASIS AZ students.

From what I've seen, pushing APs down to 8th-11th grade doesn't tend to work half as well as the franchise likes to claim. Most BASIS students would clearly be better off taking their APs in 10th-12th grades - they'd score higher if they were more mature, enjoy the learning more, grasp and retain the material better and would be more likely to earn college credit for their efforts (at schools accepting AP credit; far fewer elite colleges do this than a decade ago). The college counseling emphasis at BASIS is fine, but the capstone isn't necessarily all that hot either. The experience tends to be a lonely one for 17 year olds, off in their own academic orbits too young.

Burnout is a real problem for many students up the chain. Challenge, rigor and acceleration have their limits in what's primarily a cookie cutter program housed in weak facilities (not just in DC, but elsewhere in the country).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At Wilson you can’t take an AP exam in 9th. Honors Bio/Chem/Physics content is covered in MS at BASIS.

Kids can absolutely get to the same place (4-year colleges) at either school but there are differences. At BASIS many students graduate with 10-12 AP classes and passing AP calculus is a graduation requirement. BASIS allows students to take APs as electives instead of art, music, robotics — although they have offer those classes too. BASIS students are also exempt from some required DCPS classes (ie PE) leaving room for other things.

Students at BASIS can also get Pass-Fail credit for an outside activity, such as a travel sport, dance, theatre or music program that requires practice a few days a week and leave school before the last period of the day to make it easier to make participation easier to manage.

Just not true. Any student can register for and take any AP exam any year from 8th grade up if they wish. Public schools can't stop kids from taking APs. Home schoolers register for APs independently all the time, all over the country. We know Wilson students who've prepared for APs with tutors, as well as summer enrichment and on-line programs. These kids have scored 4s and 5s without any input or oversight from Wilson.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At Wilson you can’t take an AP exam in 9th. Honors Bio/Chem/Physics content is covered in MS at BASIS.

Kids can absolutely get to the same place (4-year colleges) at either school but there are differences. At BASIS many students graduate with 10-12 AP classes and passing AP calculus is a graduation requirement. BASIS allows students to take APs as electives instead of art, music, robotics — although they have offer those classes too. BASIS students are also exempt from some required DCPS classes (ie PE) leaving room for other things.

Students at BASIS can also get Pass-Fail credit for an outside activity, such as a travel sport, dance, theatre or music program that requires practice a few days a week and leave school before the last period of the day to make it easier to make participation easier to manage.

Just not true. Any student can register for and take any AP exam any year from 8th grade up if they wish. Public schools can't stop kids from taking APs. Home schoolers register for APs independently all the time, all over the country. We know Wilson students who've prepared for APs with tutors, as well as summer enrichment and on-line programs. These kids have scored 4s and 5s without any input or oversight from Wilson.

The PP meant they can’t take the AP class. No one said they can’t take the exams independently. Not sure if DCPS will pay for an AP exam for a student who self studied though.

[Anonymous]

To 18:46 —

1) the independent senior project is just 12 weeks out of the school year. At least for my kid and their peers, who are doing it now, they’re having fun and enjoying doing something new and challenging. They also have to hold a 20-hour per week internship in a related organization.

2) Most BASIS DC students do not take an AP exam in 8th. And no one is forced to do it.

3) FWIW there is another DC school that starts APs as early as BASIS, and that is St Anselm’s, the private boys’ school in NE.

Finally, the college admissions and merit aid results from BASIS suggest that admissions officers are not as concerned about the kids’ preparation as you are.

[Anonymous]

A great secondary school education is not simply about kids' "preparation" for college academics. It's about Eureka moments, character training, relentlessly developing intellectual curiosity, learning to think for oneself, about becoming a Renaissance person. St. Anselm's is clearly run by people who understand this. BASIS is a fine cram school by comparison.

[Anonymous]

I’m not putting my kid’s character education into the hands of any part of the Catholic Church.

And most pre at who choose BASIS are choosing between it and Coolidge, Ballou, Dunbar, Cardozo, CHEC, and Eastern and their feeder MSs.