Emotional disability and highly gifted, age 6...what next?

[Anonymous]

An ED program can be a blessing and a curse. One nice thing about it is that it provides a small environment for learning for the kids in the self-contained classroom, which may make it easier to teach material appropriate for highly gifted kids. I would call the program director and specifically ask about this. The environment is good for the most part for keeping kids in line with positive reinforcements in place. The curse is that kids do misbehave in extreme ways, at times, which can affect impressionable kids. For example, My kid came home saying the N word one day. I am beyond pissed about that!

[Anonymous]

OP here...Dumb question, when people say "the county"...who is the county? Dept of special ed? If the principal wants a placement change, who turns him or her down? DH is all "oh, the county can pay for private if there isn't a good placement for her, so there!" but not straight out of the home school right? I mean come on.

And yes, we have had a child psychiatrist for about a year now. I mentioned it in the original post, my last one was overly nutshelly.

MCPS GTLD (soooo many acronyms) starts in 3rd grade or we would probably try for that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here...Dumb question, when people say "the county"...who is the county? Dept of special ed? If the principal wants a placement change, who turns him or her down? DH is all "oh, the county can pay for private if there isn't a good placement for her, so there!" but not straight out of the home school right? I mean come on.

And yes, we have had a child psychiatrist for about a year now. I mentioned it in the original post, my last one was overly nutshelly.

MCPS GTLD (soooo many acronyms) starts in 3rd grade or we would probably try for that.

You almost certainly won't get a private placement without a professional advocate or attorney. And yes, the Department of Special Education would be involved

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/special-education/

[Anonymous]

You don't need an advocate, you just need a lawyer. It's expensive and there are no gaurentes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here...nutshell history is,

- issues started on and off in a private prek. We did childfind eval and they naturally said all was wonderful. By Feb. 2016 we were on verge of being kicked out and we called childfind again and they agreed to revisit, came out and observed her 4/2016, then had IEP/PEP meeting with them and the "home elementary school" special ed teacher 5/2016. In May we also started ritalin. Moderate improvement.

- Issues on and off through the fall, some dosage tweaks etc., issues accelerated after Thanksgiving. Major incident in early January that unnerved us. Her therapist suggested psych testing, and we had intake on that at tail end of January. Pricey but felt we needed to do it. Got report a couple days before spring break, and yep gave it to the school. No real response to it yet.

- Testing was WISC-IV. Full scale IQ was 137. Verbal was lower than fluid reasoning, is that the same as percetual?

I probably missed some questions. I don't know boredom is causing the behaviors, that was just me speculating. None of the increasing array of medical professionals has indicated as such

137 is not "highly gifted". It's in the moderately gifted range.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here...nutshell history is,

- issues started on and off in a private prek. We did childfind eval and they naturally said all was wonderful. By Feb. 2016 we were on verge of being kicked out and we called childfind again and they agreed to revisit, came out and observed her 4/2016, then had IEP/PEP meeting with them and the "home elementary school" special ed teacher 5/2016. In May we also started ritalin. Moderate improvement.

- Issues on and off through the fall, some dosage tweaks etc., issues accelerated after Thanksgiving. Major incident in early January that unnerved us. Her therapist suggested psych testing, and we had intake on that at tail end of January. Pricey but felt we needed to do it. Got report a couple days before spring break, and yep gave it to the school. No real response to it yet.

- Testing was WISC-IV. Full scale IQ was 137. Verbal was lower than fluid reasoning, is that the same as percetual?

I probably missed some questions. I don't know boredom is causing the behaviors, that was just me speculating. None of the increasing array of medical professionals has indicated as such

137 is not "highly gifted". It's in the moderately gifted range.

So I got both parts of my thread title wrong?? Well I just suck. "Behavior issues and twice-exceptional, age 6...what next?" I guess it should have been. I do promise she is 6.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here...nutshell history is,

- issues started on and off in a private prek. We did childfind eval and they naturally said all was wonderful. By Feb. 2016 we were on verge of being kicked out and we called childfind again and they agreed to revisit, came out and observed her 4/2016, then had IEP/PEP meeting with them and the "home elementary school" special ed teacher 5/2016. In May we also started ritalin. Moderate improvement.

- Issues on and off through the fall, some dosage tweaks etc., issues accelerated after Thanksgiving. Major incident in early January that unnerved us. Her therapist suggested psych testing, and we had intake on that at tail end of January. Pricey but felt we needed to do it. Got report a couple days before spring break, and yep gave it to the school. No real response to it yet.

- Testing was WISC-IV. Full scale IQ was 137. Verbal was lower than fluid reasoning, is that the same as percetual?

I probably missed some questions. I don't know boredom is causing the behaviors, that was just me speculating. None of the increasing array of medical professionals has indicated as such

137 is not "highly gifted". It's in the moderately gifted range.

So I got both parts of my thread title wrong?? Well I just suck. "Behavior issues and twice-exceptional, age 6...what next?" I guess it should have been. I do promise she is 6.

LOL, I'm the PP above. I'm also the one who argued above that what you describe, with anxiety as a major factor can be considered an emotional disability, so no one person thinks you're twice wrong.

[Anonymous]

People are ridiculous! Your title is fine. Anxiety is definitely an emotional disability regardless of how it is on her iep. 137 is plenty gifted- it's not a competition.

You're doing just fine, OP.

For your daughter's challenges, not only would it be close to impossible to move to a private placement without trying the ED program, but you'd have a really tough time finding an appropriate placement privately. Even if you could full pay, I'm not sure if there is a school that would work well. Instead focus on what you can do to make her first grade better- whether it's a stronger iep or a different placement. One day at a time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here...nutshell history is,

- issues started on and off in a private prek. We did childfind eval and they naturally said all was wonderful. By Feb. 2016 we were on verge of being kicked out and we called childfind again and they agreed to revisit, came out and observed her 4/2016, then had IEP/PEP meeting with them and the "home elementary school" special ed teacher 5/2016. In May we also started ritalin. Moderate improvement.

- Issues on and off through the fall, some dosage tweaks etc., issues accelerated after Thanksgiving. Major incident in early January that unnerved us. Her therapist suggested psych testing, and we had intake on that at tail end of January. Pricey but felt we needed to do it. Got report a couple days before spring break, and yep gave it to the school. No real response to it yet.

- Testing was WISC-IV. Full scale IQ was 137. Verbal was lower than fluid reasoning, is that the same as percetual?

I probably missed some questions. I don't know boredom is causing the behaviors, that was just me speculating. None of the increasing array of medical professionals has indicated as such

137 is not "highly gifted". It's in the moderately gifted range.

So I got both parts of my thread title wrong?? Well I just suck. "Behavior issues and twice-exceptional, age 6...what next?" I guess it should have been. I do promise she is 6.

LOL, I'm the PP above. I'm also the one who argued above that what you describe, with anxiety as a major factor can be considered an emotional disability, so no one person thinks you're twice wrong.

PP, please don't nitpick. It doesn't serve a purpose.

Plus for an ED diagnosis, the behaviors would need to impact a child at home, at school, and in the community in general:
https://www.samhsa.gov/data/sites/default/files/NSDUH-DSM5ImpactChildSED-2016.pdf

An school for ED will have a range of kids and will learning centers or even autism programs for that matter.

To the PP who said her kid learned bad words/behaviors, that could happen any where even in the mainstream.

And lastly, I agree with the PP who said 137 is plenty gifted and not a competition. Damn straight.

OP, don't be discouraged. It's a learning curve for all of us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How high is her IQ? Big difference between 130 and 145+. Is her verbal IQ lower than her perceptual reasoning? Or are they both high?

Eh, not really: http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/highly_profoundly.htm

"There is the numerical answer: a child of IQ 160 is as different from a moderately gifted child of 130, as that child is from an average child of 100. But IQ scores are no longer derived from a ratio, with the numerical difference between scores indicating the variation. Today's IQ tests score on a curve, so that the difference between 100 and 115 is far less than the difference between 130 and 145, and the difference between 130 and 145 is far less than the difference between 145 and 160, though the ranges appear similar numerically.

And there are lots of different levels of development to consider in each child. There is intellectual development, the development measured by an IQ test. There is also physical development - gross and fine motor skills, social and emotional development, and spiritual development. And all of these development levels characterize the gifted child."

Yeah really. An IQ of 130 is equal to or higher than every 2 out of 100 kids.- 2 Standard Deviations away from mean. So if a school has 100 kids you would expect to find about 20 students with that IQ or higher (and you would find more students with that IQ at a higher SES school and not as many at a low SES school since there is a strong correlation between a mother's level of education and her child's IQ). Once you get to 145 the percentile rank is 99.9 -3 Standard Deviatiins from the mean . That is equal to or higher than 1 out of 1000 students. That student might not have an intellectual peer group at the school.
An IQ of 137 is plenty gifted. If there are no issue at home and there are issues at school, I would really look into how she does in the community. If there aren't issues in the community- she owes fine at outside classes, play dates, camps, then I would wonder if you just haven't found the right school for her.

[Anonymous]

You mentioned autistic tendencies ... did they actually do an ADOS?

My DS was being routed towards ED with a lot of similar issues in K, though he tended to turn everything inward so was threatening suicide vs being aggressive towards other students. Turns out a lot of it was related to ASD, anxiety, and LD.

In our county, I'm doing my best to keep him as far from the ED label as possible. I don't know if MoCo is any different but I'd much rather the school understand that unwanted behavior is originating from ASD & anxiety vs just writing it off as "willful" and treating it punitively. Because then if they actually give him the supports he needs because of his ASD and anxiety, he won't have the behavior problems.

[Anonymous]

My kids are teens now but had similar challenges when younger. In both cases, specialized private schools with very small classes and a highly differentiated curriculum helped a lot at that age. You might want to check into some (e.g., Auburn) to see if you'd qualify for financial aid. If not, I'd look for whatever setting can offer your child the smallest class, the most differentiation, and teachers who can use a flexible teaching style vs. being strict disciplinarians.

The other thing that helped the most is free: maturity. Your daughter is only 6 and she is having trouble with self-regulation. Kids with ADHD as well as gifted kids often take longer to develop this ability, but they do grow and get better at it as long as they feel loved, understood, and supported in the interim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You mentioned autistic tendencies ... did they actually do an ADOS?

My DS was being routed towards ED with a lot of similar issues in K, though he tended to turn everything inward so was threatening suicide vs being aggressive towards other students. Turns out a lot of it was related to ASD, anxiety, and LD.

In our county, I'm doing my best to keep him as far from the ED label as possible. I don't know if MoCo is any different but I'd much rather the school understand that unwanted behavior is originating from ASD & anxiety vs just writing it off as "willful" and treating it punitively. Because then if they actually give him the supports he needs because of his ASD and anxiety, he won't have the behavior problems.

This has been my experience as well. Once my child started getting adequate supports for anxiety and ASD/ADHD combined, the behaviors have mostly gone away. And even with some behaviors now, they are not as extreme (like hitting, work refusal, etc.). When a child is adequately supported, they should be able to perform much better. Don't let the school label your child as a behavior "problem." That is so easy for them and puts all the pressure and blame on your child and you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You mentioned autistic tendencies ... did they actually do an ADOS?

My DS was being routed towards ED with a lot of similar issues in K, though he tended to turn everything inward so was threatening suicide vs being aggressive towards other students. Turns out a lot of it was related to ASD, anxiety, and LD.

In our county, I'm doing my best to keep him as far from the ED label as possible. I don't know if MoCo is any different but I'd much rather the school understand that unwanted behavior is originating from ASD & anxiety vs just writing it off as "willful" and treating it punitively. Because then if they actually give him the supports he needs because of his ASD and anxiety, he won't have the behavior problems.

This has been my experience as well. Once my child started getting adequate supports for anxiety and ASD/ADHD combined, the behaviors have mostly gone away. And even with some behaviors now, they are not as extreme (like hitting, work refusal, etc.). When a child is adequately supported, they should be able to perform much better. Don't let the school label your child as a behavior "problem." That is so easy for them and puts all the pressure and blame on your child and you.

My child's experience as well. The year before ASD diagnosis, in a poor fit school, was terrible -- hitting, biting, screaming, meltdowns. With a diagnosis and a better fit school, all the aggressive behavior disappeared and meltdowns got much better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You mentioned autistic tendencies ... did they actually do an ADOS?

My DS was being routed towards ED with a lot of similar issues in K, though he tended to turn everything inward so was threatening suicide vs being aggressive towards other students. Turns out a lot of it was related to ASD, anxiety, and LD.

In our county, I'm doing my best to keep him as far from the ED label as possible. I don't know if MoCo is any different but I'd much rather the school understand that unwanted behavior is originating from ASD & anxiety vs just writing it off as "willful" and treating it punitively. Because then if they actually give him the supports he needs because of his ASD and anxiety, he won't have the behavior problems.

This has been my experience as well. Once my child started getting adequate supports for anxiety and ASD/ADHD combined, the behaviors have mostly gone away. And even with some behaviors now, they are not as extreme (like hitting, work refusal, etc.). When a child is adequately supported, they should be able to perform much better. Don't let the school label your child as a behavior "problem." That is so easy for them and puts all the pressure and blame on your child and you.

My child's experience as well. The year before ASD diagnosis, in a poor fit school, was terrible -- hitting, biting, screaming, meltdowns. With a diagnosis and a better fit school, all the aggressive behavior disappeared and meltdowns got much better.

I agree with everyone else that your school is not providing the supports and services your DD needs. Doesn't matter what her diagnosis (or IQ) is at this point.

The neuropsych eval should have recommendations for what supports and services are necessary in the IEP and the neuropsych who did the testing should tell you what schools and programs in the area will be a better fit.

From your description, the current school sounds like a complete ineffective mess. While the FBA/BIP is a good idea, a FBA/BIP needs good teachers who can follow the plan.