Yu Ying - advice please

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We visited half a dozen immersion PS immersion programs over the winter, the most popular charters + DCPS programs. We observed classes in session and walked around. We discovered that Sela and Yu Ying aren't true immersion programs, not in the way the Spanish programs are. The kids don't speak the language being taught on the playground, in hallways, the cafeteria etc. They speak it in response to teachers asking questions, or in making prepared presentations. FYI, OP in the Spanish programs, you hear the language outside classroom settings a lot, particularly at Oyster. If you're mainly looking for a solid PreS-12th grade path YY will work great as long as you don't mind that half the families aren't too serious about the language or cultural aspects. SOunds like you wouldn't. I'd go for it.

What's your source on "half the families aren't too serious about the language"? I haven't found that to be true at all and I'm a YY parent who finds most parents are serious about their kids learning the language. How did you arrive at "half the parents aren't serious"?

Because these two or three heritage parents are pissed that we aren't agitating hard enough for Cantonese speakers to get preference. We all know that most native speakers in the area prefer Montgomery over any school in DC.

[Anonymous]

Which Cantonese speakers? They don't seem to have been on these boards for ages.

I'm a native Mandarin speaker who's lived in DC since long before Yu Ying opened. I've volunteered for this and that at the school over the years (but no longer do). I know a couple dozen YY and DCI families pretty well, including those who started in the original PreK4 group. I say with confidence that most of the families aren't very serious about the Chinese, and even if they are, not having a cohort of native-speaking kids in the school clobbers the language learning, unless a Chinese-speaking adult is in the home year after year.

The school doesn't try to expose the YY students to native Chinese-speaking young people in the Metro area (e.g. from the strongest Mandarin heritage programs in MoCo) when they could have started doing this long ago, even if they can't/don't want to recruit native speakers directly. YY doesn't encourage the kids to hang out with native speakers their own age and it shows. Parents love the program anyway, but from the perspective of those of us who speak only Chinese to our children, the arrangement is pretty silly. You hear the parents say, oh no problem, our kids will go live in China later to perfect their Chinese. Maybe, but I doubt it, other than a few. I doubt that my own kids will do this, and they have no trouble speaking Chinese all day, with the odd English word or phrase tossed in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Which Cantonese speakers? They don't seem to have been on these boards for ages.

I'm a native Mandarin speaker who's lived in DC since long before Yu Ying opened. I've volunteered for this and that at the school over the years (but no longer do). I know a couple dozen YY and DCI families pretty well, including those who started in the original PreK4 group. I say with confidence that most of the families aren't very serious about the Chinese, and even if they are, not having a cohort of native-speaking kids in the school clobbers the language learning, unless a Chinese-speaking adult is in the home year after year.

The school doesn't try to expose the YY students to native Chinese-speaking young people in the Metro area (e.g. from the strongest Mandarin heritage programs in MoCo) when they could have started doing this long ago, even if they can't/don't want to recruit native speakers directly. YY doesn't encourage the kids to hang out with native speakers their own age and it shows. Parents love the program anyway, but from the perspective of those of us who speak only Chinese to our children, the arrangement is pretty silly. You hear the parents say, oh no problem, our kids will go live in China later to perfect their Chinese. Maybe, but I doubt it, other than a few. I doubt that my own kids will do this, and they have no trouble speaking Chinese all day, with the odd English word or phrase tossed in.

Why do you care so much. Seriously, give it up. So they will never learn Chinese to your standards. Big deal. Don't you have your own garden to tend?

[Anonymous]

I think what some of the first PPs were saying is that there's not much point to have your kids learn Mandarin if you don't also support it at home, so that they actually master the language. Otherwise just consider how much time they'll spend on something that then they won't really be able to use.

For some people, who don't have a better school option, that's fine, but with more effort/interest, it is possible to gain (and more rarely hold on to) fluency.

Also consider whether you have other kids and how that will affect the younger kids' path.

Is your current school already far away from where you live? With YY, the other students are scattered throughout the city, and that might be a consideration.

And, although this is probably least of your concern, it is true that some parents REALLY REALLY want a spot for their kids, and are hoping that people like you would walk away.

(Not at YY, my kids didn't get in, but know several YY families.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Which Cantonese speakers? They don't seem to have been on these boards for ages.

I'm a native Mandarin speaker who's lived in DC since long before Yu Ying opened. I've volunteered for this and that at the school over the years (but no longer do). I know a couple dozen YY and DCI families pretty well, including those who started in the original PreK4 group. I say with confidence that most of the families aren't very serious about the Chinese, and even if they are, not having a cohort of native-speaking kids in the school clobbers the language learning, unless a Chinese-speaking adult is in the home year after year.

The school doesn't try to expose the YY students to native Chinese-speaking young people in the Metro area (e.g. from the strongest Mandarin heritage programs in MoCo) when they could have started doing this long ago, even if they can't/don't want to recruit native speakers directly. YY doesn't encourage the kids to hang out with native speakers their own age and it shows. Parents love the program anyway, but from the perspective of those of us who speak only Chinese to our children, the arrangement is pretty silly. You hear the parents say, oh no problem, our kids will go live in China later to perfect their Chinese. Maybe, but I doubt it, other than a few. I doubt that my own kids will do this, and they have no trouble speaking Chinese all day, with the odd English word or phrase tossed in.

Why do you care so much. Seriously, give it up. So they will never learn Chinese to your standards. Big deal. Don't you have your own garden to tend?

Sure, but I supported the creation of YY, and have volunteered there many times, making me a stakeholder. I've grown disenchanted, mainly due to a persistent truth-in-advertising issue. Parents of 3 and 4 years olds are assured at open houses that their kids will become "fluent" in Chinese by MS by dint of hard work (no native speaking peers or their families needed). At a recent open house, a friend noted that this was said a dozen times. But the truth is that many kids who've been at YY all the way from PreK to 5th grade struggle to speak or understand basic everyday Chinese. The arrangement makes me think of the Soviet "we pretend to work, and they pretend to pay us" approach. The immersion school I backed has not emerged as an immersion school. This city can do better.

Why don't you care? Because your kid is behind the curve in two languages and you don't want to deal with that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Which Cantonese speakers? They don't seem to have been on these boards for ages.

I'm a native Mandarin speaker who's lived in DC since long before Yu Ying opened. I've volunteered for this and that at the school over the years (but no longer do). I know a couple dozen YY and DCI families pretty well, including those who started in the original PreK4 group. I say with confidence that most of the families aren't very serious about the Chinese, and even if they are, not having a cohort of native-speaking kids in the school clobbers the language learning, unless a Chinese-speaking adult is in the home year after year.

The school doesn't try to expose the YY students to native Chinese-speaking young people in the Metro area (e.g. from the strongest Mandarin heritage programs in MoCo) when they could have started doing this long ago, even if they can't/don't want to recruit native speakers directly. YY doesn't encourage the kids to hang out with native speakers their own age and it shows. Parents love the program anyway, but from the perspective of those of us who speak only Chinese to our children, the arrangement is pretty silly. You hear the parents say, oh no problem, our kids will go live in China later to perfect their Chinese. Maybe, but I doubt it, other than a few. I doubt that my own kids will do this, and they have no trouble speaking Chinese all day, with the odd English word or phrase tossed in.

Why do you care so much. Seriously, give it up. So they will never learn Chinese to your standards. Big deal. Don't you have your own garden to tend?

Sure, but I supported the creation of YY, and have volunteered there many times, making me a stakeholder. I've grown disenchanted, mainly due to a persistent truth-in-advertising issue. Parents of 3 and 4 years olds are assured at open houses that their kids will become "fluent" in Chinese by MS by dint of hard work (no native speaking peers or their families needed). At a recent open house, a friend noted that this was said a dozen times. But the truth is that many kids who've been at YY all the way from PreK to 5th grade struggle to speak or understand basic everyday Chinese. The arrangement makes me think of the Soviet "we pretend to work, and they pretend to pay us" approach. The immersion school I backed has not emerged as an immersion school. This city can do better.

Why don't you care? Because your kid is behind the curve in two languages and you don't want to deal with that?

Not the PP you're replying to, but I absolutely need to call BS on the bolded part about the school promising fluency to PK3 and 4 yr old parents. I've been to open houses last year and this year, and I NEVER heard YY staff promise fluency. Of course they talked about the advantages of having the DCI track and about higher levels of proficiency because of it, but they never said "Hey, start your kid in PK and they'll be fluent by 12th, without any other supports or classes outside the schoolday". Never said it, and you should be ashamed of yourself for spreading that untruth as fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Which Cantonese speakers? They don't seem to have been on these boards for ages.

I'm a native Mandarin speaker who's lived in DC since long before Yu Ying opened. I've volunteered for this and that at the school over the years (but no longer do). I know a couple dozen YY and DCI families pretty well, including those who started in the original PreK4 group. I say with confidence that most of the families aren't very serious about the Chinese, and even if they are, not having a cohort of native-speaking kids in the school clobbers the language learning, unless a Chinese-speaking adult is in the home year after year.

The school doesn't try to expose the YY students to native Chinese-speaking young people in the Metro area (e.g. from the strongest Mandarin heritage programs in MoCo) when they could have started doing this long ago, even if they can't/don't want to recruit native speakers directly. YY doesn't encourage the kids to hang out with native speakers their own age and it shows. Parents love the program anyway, but from the perspective of those of us who speak only Chinese to our children, the arrangement is pretty silly. You hear the parents say, oh no problem, our kids will go live in China later to perfect their Chinese. Maybe, but I doubt it, other than a few. I doubt that my own kids will do this, and they have no trouble speaking Chinese all day, with the odd English word or phrase tossed in.

Why do you care so much. Seriously, give it up. So they will never learn Chinese to your standards. Big deal. Don't you have your own garden to tend?

Sure, but I supported the creation of YY, and have volunteered there many times, making me a stakeholder. I've grown disenchanted, mainly due to a persistent truth-in-advertising issue. Parents of 3 and 4 years olds are assured at open houses that their kids will become "fluent" in Chinese by MS by dint of hard work (no native speaking peers or their families needed). At a recent open house, a friend noted that this was said a dozen times. But the truth is that many kids who've been at YY all the way from PreK to 5th grade struggle to speak or understand basic everyday Chinese. The arrangement makes me think of the Soviet "we pretend to work, and they pretend to pay us" approach. The immersion school I backed has not emerged as an immersion school. This city can do better.

Why don't you care? Because your kid is behind the curve in two languages and you don't want to deal with that?

Sorry, being a former volunteer does not make you a stakeholder.

[Anonymous]

I think YY is a great school. I also don't really think there is much or any value in learning perfect Chinese. I know I'm not alone.

[Anonymous]

I know what good Chinese is, but what's perfect Chinese? Chinese families speak really slangy dialects - hardly anybody in Chinese communities speaks textbook/court Mandarin as their first dialect. So no point in learning any dialect, or the lingua franca, well unless you're raised to speak it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Which Cantonese speakers? They don't seem to have been on these boards for ages.

I'm a native Mandarin speaker who's lived in DC since long before Yu Ying opened. I've volunteered for this and that at the school over the years (but no longer do). I know a couple dozen YY and DCI families pretty well, including those who started in the original PreK4 group. I say with confidence that most of the families aren't very serious about the Chinese, and even if they are, not having a cohort of native-speaking kids in the school clobbers the language learning, unless a Chinese-speaking adult is in the home year after year.

The school doesn't try to expose the YY students to native Chinese-speaking young people in the Metro area (e.g. from the strongest Mandarin heritage programs in MoCo) when they could have started doing this long ago, even if they can't/don't want to recruit native speakers directly. YY doesn't encourage the kids to hang out with native speakers their own age and it shows. Parents love the program anyway, but from the perspective of those of us who speak only Chinese to our children, the arrangement is pretty silly. You hear the parents say, oh no problem, our kids will go live in China later to perfect their Chinese. Maybe, but I doubt it, other than a few. I doubt that my own kids will do this, and they have no trouble speaking Chinese all day, with the odd English word or phrase tossed in.

Why do you care so much. Seriously, give it up. So they will never learn Chinese to your standards. Big deal. Don't you have your own garden to tend?

Sure, but I supported the creation of YY, and have volunteered there many times, making me a stakeholder. I've grown disenchanted, mainly due to a persistent truth-in-advertising issue. Parents of 3 and 4 years olds are assured at open houses that their kids will become "fluent" in Chinese by MS by dint of hard work (no native speaking peers or their families needed). At a recent open house, a friend noted that this was said a dozen times. But the truth is that many kids who've been at YY all the way from PreK to 5th grade struggle to speak or understand basic everyday Chinese. The arrangement makes me think of the Soviet "we pretend to work, and they pretend to pay us" approach. The immersion school I backed has not emerged as an immersion school. This city can do better.

Why don't you care? Because your kid is behind the curve in two languages and you don't want to deal with that?

Sorry, being a former volunteer does not make you a stakeholder.

Not, it doesn't. I was asked to help circulate petitions among civil society groups in Chinatown to get YY's charter approved. I had my doubts, but helped. I regret the decision - a Chinese "immersion" school without close ties to an ethnic community doesn't feel right ten years on. The Chinatown community wouldn't have supported the initiative if we'd been told that the YY board planned to hire non Chinese-speaking admins. We believed that YY was serious about building ties with the local dialect-speaking immigrant community. Maybe under the next head. In the meantime, we head to MoCo for Higher Level IBD Chinese, 6s and 7s, hard work for the kids but within their grasp with a critical mass of native speakers in the classes.

Good luck to the rest of you at YY and DCI.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Which Cantonese speakers? They don't seem to have been on these boards for ages.

I'm a native Mandarin speaker who's lived in DC since long before Yu Ying opened. I've volunteered for this and that at the school over the years (but no longer do). I know a couple dozen YY and DCI families pretty well, including those who started in the original PreK4 group. I say with confidence that most of the families aren't very serious about the Chinese, and even if they are, not having a cohort of native-speaking kids in the school clobbers the language learning, unless a Chinese-speaking adult is in the home year after year.

The school doesn't try to expose the YY students to native Chinese-speaking young people in the Metro area (e.g. from the strongest Mandarin heritage programs in MoCo) when they could have started doing this long ago, even if they can't/don't want to recruit native speakers directly. YY doesn't encourage the kids to hang out with native speakers their own age and it shows. Parents love the program anyway, but from the perspective of those of us who speak only Chinese to our children, the arrangement is pretty silly. You hear the parents say, oh no problem, our kids will go live in China later to perfect their Chinese. Maybe, but I doubt it, other than a few. I doubt that my own kids will do this, and they have no trouble speaking Chinese all day, with the odd English word or phrase tossed in.

Why do you care so much. Seriously, give it up. So they will never learn Chinese to your standards. Big deal. Don't you have your own garden to tend?

Sure, but I supported the creation of YY, and have volunteered there many times, making me a stakeholder. I've grown disenchanted, mainly due to a persistent truth-in-advertising issue. Parents of 3 and 4 years olds are assured at open houses that their kids will become "fluent" in Chinese by MS by dint of hard work (no native speaking peers or their families needed). At a recent open house, a friend noted that this was said a dozen times. But the truth is that many kids who've been at YY all the way from PreK to 5th grade struggle to speak or understand basic everyday Chinese. The arrangement makes me think of the Soviet "we pretend to work, and they pretend to pay us" approach. The immersion school I backed has not emerged as an immersion school. This city can do better.

Why don't you care? Because your kid is behind the curve in two languages and you don't want to deal with that?

Sorry, being a former volunteer does not make you a stakeholder.

Not, it doesn't. I was asked to help circulate petitions among civil society groups in Chinatown to get YY's charter approved. I had my doubts, but helped. I regret the decision - a Chinese "immersion" school without close ties to an ethnic community doesn't feel right ten years on. The Chinatown community wouldn't have supported the initiative if we'd been told that the YY board planned to hire non Chinese-speaking admins. We believed that YY was serious about building ties with the local dialect-speaking immigrant community. Maybe under the next head. In the meantime, we head to MoCo for Higher Level IBD Chinese, 6s and 7s, hard work for the kids but within their grasp with a critical mass of native speakers in the classes.

Good luck to the rest of you at YY and DCI.

No dog in this fight but this smells racist. Again. Seriously i don't see the point of Chinese at all if racism is going to be used as an excuse against you no matter what.

Plus I've been to China..... No desire to live in such a poisoned place.

[Anonymous]

What is the point of Mandarin immersion if you have no family connection to the Chinese language? Chinese won't be of much use for 99% of careers in the US. Chinese people learn English becuase:

It is useful at an international level - business,science, travel, politics, etc; They are interested in setting their children up to go to school in the West; They want to emigrate.

None of these reasons hold for Americans and Mandarin - you really want your kid to go to college in China? Do you think getting a Chinese law degree or medical degree will be of value in the US for all but a small number of people? You planning to emigrate to China?

This focus some have on Chinese immersion is silly

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would ask a different question.

How committed to you to Montessori in the long-run? Do you expect to send your kid there through 5/6th grade?

If you're only committed to Montessori at the primary level, I'd make the switch now, as you're unlikely to get as good of a lottery spot in the future. If you are committed to Montessori through lower and upper elementary, then stay.

The real magic of Montessori happens in elementary. Being committed only for primary is shortsighted.

I'm PP. I agree. We're committed to Montessori in elementary, but it isn't clear that OP is. She just says she loves the school now. I wanted to raise the questions to try and get a better sense if she's truly committed.

OP here. Our Montessori school doesn't go through middle school. I wish our child could stay there through 8th grade, since there are some good high school options that we could try for at that point. But it doesn't feed anywhere for middle school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would ask a different question.

How committed to you to Montessori in the long-run? Do you expect to send your kid there through 5/6th grade?

If you're only committed to Montessori at the primary level, I'd make the switch now, as you're unlikely to get as good of a lottery spot in the future. If you are committed to Montessori through lower and upper elementary, then stay.

The real magic of Montessori happens in elementary. Being committed only for primary is shortsighted.

I'm PP. I agree. We're committed to Montessori in elementary, but it isn't clear that OP is. She just says she loves the school now. I wanted to raise the questions to try and get a better sense if she's truly committed.

OP here. Our Montessori school doesn't go through middle school. I wish our child could stay there through 8th grade, since there are some good high school options that we could try for at that point. But it doesn't feed anywhere for middle school.

Are you sure? I thought SSMA, Breakthrough and Lee won some kind of planning grant for a potential collaboration for a middle high? I think it is this one? (So maybe just Lee and Breakthrough? Or just Lee?

http://citybridge.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/DC-Montessori-Profile-March-2017.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would ask a different question.

How committed to you to Montessori in the long-run? Do you expect to send your kid there through 5/6th grade?

If you're only committed to Montessori at the primary level, I'd make the switch now, as you're unlikely to get as good of a lottery spot in the future. If you are committed to Montessori through lower and upper elementary, then stay.

The real magic of Montessori happens in elementary. Being committed only for primary is shortsighted.

I'm PP. I agree. We're committed to Montessori in elementary, but it isn't clear that OP is. She just says she loves the school now. I wanted to raise the questions to try and get a better sense if she's truly committed.

OP here. Our Montessori school doesn't go through middle school. I wish our child could stay there through 8th grade, since there are some good high school options that we could try for at that point. But it doesn't feed anywhere for middle school.

Are you sure? I thought SSMA, Breakthrough and Lee won some kind of planning grant for a potential collaboration for a middle high? I think it is this one? (So maybe just Lee and Breakthrough? Or just Lee?

http://citybridge.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/DC-Montessori-Profile-March-2017.pdf

NP. It would not be the first time a planning grant didn't materialize into a charter in DC. Don't count your chickens.