Change to HGC Testing to make it more accessible to a more "diversified" group?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think more secrecy about the test would actually be better. No one should be prepping for these at all. People who seek out information about he test through back channels and tutors are 100% cheating. MCPS should be able to use any methods they want to select students.

How is it cheating? I'm the PP who says they should make the test public.

People prep for everything! It's called being prepared and knowing what to expect. You do better when you're aware of what is expected.

Do you think SAT prep courses are also cheating?

At least if everyone knew, then everyone could have the opportunity to prep.

The purpose of the HGC is to create a cohort of highly gifted children. Not to accommodate your well prepped, middling child.

Despite what you think.

+1

[Anonymous]

This is what we did. And I don't feel the tiniest bit of guilt. There were questions in the book that were easy to answer but would be difficult for kids who had never seen that type of question before.

Of course the questions are easier after the child has seen and practiced doing that type of question. The point of the test is to separate out the kids who can understand and answer questions of a type they've never seen before, the kids who can figure out how to do problems without an adult telling them how.

A kid who can figure out those questions without being told in advance how to do them might really need and benefit from a different kind of education. The kid who can't do it on his own but can remember how he is taught to answer a question will probably do fine in a regular classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

This is what we did. And I don't feel the tiniest bit of guilt. There were questions in the book that were easy to answer but would be difficult for kids who had never seen that type of question before.

Of course the questions are easier after the child has seen and practiced doing that type of question. The point of the test is to separate out the kids who can understand and answer questions of a type they've never seen before, the kids who can figure out how to do problems without an adult telling them how.

A kid who can figure out those questions without being told in advance how to do them might really need and benefit from a different kind of education. The kid who can't do it on his own but can remember how he is taught to answer a question will probably do fine in a regular classroom.

No. Sorry.

SO MANY more kids would benefit from the teaching that goes on at the HGC than just the ones who get accepted. Sure, a kid might 'do fine' in a regular classroom, but I'd rather my kid be challenged. Who doesn't want that for their kid.

If they want to expand the program, I'd be all for that. Until then, there is no issue in my mind if people get a workbook off of Amazon, or take a test prep class.

All families enrich their kids education in different ways. Some parents pay for piano lessons. Some parents travel the world. Some parents hire a Spanish speaking nanny because they want their kid to be bilingual. Prepping for a test is not cheating, any more than taking your kid to the Natural History museum is 'cheating'.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

This is what we did. And I don't feel the tiniest bit of guilt. There were questions in the book that were easy to answer but would be difficult for kids who had never seen that type of question before.

Of course the questions are easier after the child has seen and practiced doing that type of question. The point of the test is to separate out the kids who can understand and answer questions of a type they've never seen before, the kids who can figure out how to do problems without an adult telling them how.

A kid who can figure out those questions without being told in advance how to do them might really need and benefit from a different kind of education. The kid who can't do it on his own but can remember how he is taught to answer a question will probably do fine in a regular classroom.

How do you know prepping a student helps that much? Remember these are not achievement tests but cognitive assessment. What that means is you can't really study for it. Where it likely helps is that kids become familiarized with the format. I don't, however, see the connection with the content.

[Anonymous]

Just a few more years and my youngest will be out of MCPS. Unfortunately the quality of K-12 in US is terrible, so even private schools would not have been great.

[Anonymous]

How do you get the diversified group to apply?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never get why Fairfax county is so transparent with their testing yet mcps is so hush hush with theirs. When my kid took the Inview in years past, they didn't even bother telling us until the day of the testing. So much for making sure your child gets enough sleep and had a hardy breakfast.

Reading the AAP threads makes it seem awful to me..all the different testing and score comparisons.

AAP is not at all like the AAP forum on dcum.

Dcum's version of AAP is like some weird alternative universe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How do you get the diversified group to apply?

In the pilot areas they are supposedly looking at ALL kids and then parents can opt out or in of testing. Not sure if it will help or not but a lot better than some other things they could have done. This process won't be perfect since teachers have natural biases and I am sure will overlook some bright kids that do not fit the usual classroom mold.

Personally I am suspicious that they are also some how changing the test or criteria. At a meeting in the fall MCPS explicitly said they are not so we will see. Glad I got my kid that needed it through already.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you get the diversified group to apply?

In the pilot areas they are supposedly looking at ALL kids and then parents can opt out or in of testing. Not sure if it will help or not but a lot better than some other things they could have done. This process won't be perfect since teachers have natural biases and I am sure will overlook some bright kids that do not fit the usual classroom mold.

Personally I am suspicious that they are also some how changing the test or criteria. At a meeting in the fall MCPS explicitly said they are not so we will see. Glad I got my kid that needed it through already.

In previous years, did the december notification letter also say "approximately one hour" to complete the test or did they state a greater amount of time? I sure hope they are not just reducing the time and try to rush kids to finish the same exact amount of work. We have not prep, but certainly I have read that kids have to work super fast as is with the current test. It would be torture they are just reducing time but not removing section. What is your take, given you had attended the previous MCPS meeting?

[Anonymous]

There is no possibility that they are reducing the time but keeping the exact same test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is no possibility that they are reducing the time but keeping the exact same test.

What was the verbiage in previous years' letters, then?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The county being secretive about this doesn't inspire confidence.

This.

What is the issue with MCPS not being more transparent?

Make it known what test they are using. It would help kids across the board. Right now, only Asian and White parents afford the testing prep classes. Make it more transparent so kids of ALL races can get access to practice tests.

Well said. I said this to Meredith Casper who was (still is?) head of the programs in the main office. I also wrote to the Board of Education about it. By making the tests secret, only well-off can spend the $2,000 to get a tutor to replicate the test.

You are so full of BS. Most Asian and white kids don't prep. There is a weirdo on this board who always claims that the only reason Asian kids are getting in in higher numbers is because they spend thousands of dollars preparing for the test. The reason they get in is because their parents value the programs and work hard to find ways to supplement their education no matter what their income. If they are poor they borrow books from their friends or go to the library and borrow a Cogat book FOR FREE. They tutor their kids themselves. Please do not begrudge parents for working hard and making their kids work hard. Their kids deserve to get in more than my kid who doesn't do any of that stuff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This is what we did. And I don't feel the tiniest bit of guilt. There were questions in the book that were easy to answer but would be difficult for kids who had never seen that type of question before.

Of course the questions are easier after the child has seen and practiced doing that type of question. The point of the test is to separate out the kids who can understand and answer questions of a type they've never seen before, the kids who can figure out how to do problems without an adult telling them how.

A kid who can figure out those questions without being told in advance how to do them might really need and benefit from a different kind of education. The kid who can't do it on his own but can remember how he is taught to answer a question will probably do fine in a regular classroom.

No. Sorry.

SO MANY more kids would benefit from the teaching that goes on at the HGC than just the ones who get accepted. Sure, a kid might 'do fine' in a regular classroom, but I'd rather my kid be challenged. Who doesn't want that for their kid.

If they want to expand the program, I'd be all for that. Until then, there is no issue in my mind if people get a workbook off of Amazon, or take a test prep class.

All families enrich their kids education in different ways. Some parents pay for piano lessons. Some parents travel the world. Some parents hire a Spanish speaking nanny because they want their kid to be bilingual. Prepping for a test is not cheating, any more than taking your kid to the Natural History museum is 'cheating'.

Good response!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I learned it was the Cogat test from googling (I found board of education appeal decisions). Then I went to Amazon and bought a $20 prep book. My child completes the test in the book and was accepted. In other words, possible to prep without spending $2000.

Exactly!

[Anonymous]

A well known and widely accepted standardized test is more credible than one someone in the county with questionable qualifications simply made up. Further, using our kids in this half-baked science experiment is a bad idea.