St. Andrews: Don't Buy The "Happy Kids" Marketing
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Anonymous
I think that teaching kids how to handle not being accepted is important. So is teaching kids empathy and kindness, and to reach out to kids who are lonely or struggling. I hope St Andrews does both. |
Anonymous
It is difficult going through life with so little grasp on nuance and analogy? Wait! are you one of the PPs whose child has an autism spectrum disorder? The quoted text is actually on point: not every lid fits every pot. Families, including OP's family, bear the ultimate responsibility in deciding whether an environment is the right one for the child. When you guess wrong, it can be embarrassing and it can hurt. |
Anonymous
| I don't understand the need for parents to bash schools that they have chosen and are now unhappy with. No one misled you. You are an adult. You made the decision. The decision turned out to be wrong. Do something about it or move on. |
Anonymous
Actually, the OP asserts that they were misled, so there's that. But putting that aside, the review is very specific and thus potentially useful to other parents, just as other contrasting reviews might be. It's one person's perspective on a school DCUM visitors might consider. Take it for what it's worth to you; if nothing, move on to the next thread. |
Anonymous
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Anonymous
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I am a long time SAES parent and I have two children who attend the school, one in the US and one in the MS. My older child has mild ADHD and some learning differences. She is thriving and loves it. She has never felt ostracized for being different, nor have her friends. My child in MS is NT and loves school. Her class is vibrant, diverse, and the staff and teachers emphasize kindness, tolerance, inclusion, hard work and intellectual curiosity. Is St. Andrew's a good fit for everyone? Of course not. I have a third child who attends a progressive and highly rigorous school who would be miserable at SAES. He loves his school and is also thriving. I think both schools are amazing. But they are very different, as are my kids. No one has sold me a bill of goods, nor was I bamboozled by any slick marketing.
OP, I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but clearly it wasn't a good fit. I'm sure there is a school in the area that will work for your family. |
Anonymous
Wow so you're spending $100k a year on school? |
Anonymous
It wasn't just bashing -- it was a highly specific and helpful criticism that is one data point that will help me as I consider if the school might be right for us. This forum would be useless if there were only positive comments. |
Anonymous
This is key. We had a terrible experience similar to OP's. Not at St Andrews, but at a very similar, nearby school. What was the most difficult thing to overcome for us, was the very fact that we had been misled on several different fronts. It was devastating to find out the truth was in abject contrast to what we had been told, promised, shown on the website. I'm a big believer in "under promise but over deliver" and cannot abide the whole "over promise and deliver nothing" practice that I see in these instances. |
Anonymous
From our experience, I feel like the worst offenders on this front are schools that are not special needs schools, but claim to be able to serve a wide range of learners. So far, either those schools water down their curriculum unacceptably or aren't actually able to serve the students they accept. |
Anonymous
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17:01 wrote:
I think that teaching kids how to handle not being accepted is important. So is teaching kids empathy and kindness, and to reach out to kids who are lonely or struggling. I hope St Andrews does both. It does. I have had two very different kids transition to St. Andrew's in middle school and continue on into the upper school and can speak about those Divisions in the school. Both children's transitions were very smooth. The other children with few exceptions were very warm and embracing, and I have been glad to see that in subsequent years my kids seemed to pick up on that and return the favor to newer students. I recall one boy in middle school - a class clown type boy - would sometimes go too far with his humorous sarcasm to the point that could be seen as teasing. The kids are by no means all saints, but I can think of two specific instances over the years where one child teased another in a way that was hurtful, and other children stepped in to put an end to it and stand up for the underdog. In the first instance, my DS was the target of the teasing; in the other, DS intervened on behalf of another student. While I cannot prove this, my sense is that there is much less of tween and teen teasing t St. Andrew's than at many other schools. What I do know, is that when my kids went through middle school I could usually count the number of bad days they had on one hand in an entire school year. For that age group, I think that's pretty remarkable. As for teachers, most teachers my children have had have been solid, "A" range type teachers, and quite a few were genuinely gifted. Maybe 4-5 over the course of 6 or 7 years at the school have been B or B+ type teachers (one per year at most). And I can really only think of one substandard teacher -- who was actually very young and learning the ropes. Contrary to the experience of some above posters with the lower school, some of the best teachers in the middle and upper school have been at St. Andrews a long time, and they are by no means old fashioned in their teaching methods. There is also a cadre of teachers probably in their mid-30s at this point who are outstanding. Retention is actual very good in the middle and upper schools generally. I encourage my kids to take the most rigorous courses they can in high school not just to challenge themselves or to "look good" to colleges, but because I believe they are likely to have far better teachers -- on average -- at St. Andrew's then they will have in college, especially for intro level courses. Finally, a brief word on the debate over happiness, learning styles, brain based teaching, etc. Before they talked about learning styles (and I think that is much less these days) or neuroscience, before Hopkins and Harvard, before the "CTTL" -- all which may have their place and help with teacher recruitment and retention no matter what else you think about them -- there was St. Andrew's. And what made St. Andrews -- what is its true heart and soul -- was the commitment of the faculty to the students, their recognition of and openness to provide support where they can, their uncanny ability to motivate kids, and their true joy of teaching. I recall a math teacher who walked away from a high powered consulting career. A Latin teacher who had started several different companies before returning to teaching. An administrator who was President of his class at an ivy league school but opted to teach high school. They can do a lot of things but teach there because they love working with the kids. And the other half of the equation has always been to keep an eye on values -- kindness and empathy, an emphasis on effort but also a commitment to the value of balance between academics, arts, athletics and spirituality. These twin features -- the teaching staff and culture of values -- have always been, and I hope will always be, the hallmark of St. Andrews. Is it perfect? Of course, not. Do they make mistakes? Sometimes. And again, I know little of the lower school which, remember, has only been part of St. Andrews about the past 7-8 years via a merger with St. Frances, a school with a different history and culture. But as for the middle and upper schools, I am grateful that my children have had the opportunity to go to school there. |
Anonymous
| Can someone explain to me what is transformative about transformative learning at St. Andrews? |
Anonymous
That's a great question, and I hope you'll visit the school so that you have an opportunity to ask St. Andrew's teachers and students about this. I can offer my perspective as a parent -- teachers at St. Andrew's really believe and strive to transform their students as learners. The goal is to help each child develop an understanding of his or her own learning style, and to gain the confidence to master challenging material. The CTTL provides teachers with research-based ideas and insights into teaching and learning that further this goal. My kids attended two other independent schools and I can tell you that doesn't always happen -- even at the most selective schools. Too often, teachers have very limited opportunities for professional development, with the result that their teaching doesn't evolve or improve. Similarly, too often teachers categorize kids as brilliant, average or dim. Even when your kid is in the "brilliant" box, this approach doesn't provide much in the way of helping her/him to understand how s/he learns. That knowledge can be invaluable as a student moves through college and beyond. |
Anonymous
| I have heard good things about St. Andrew's. I plan to attend an open house for HS consideration for DS. |
Anonymous
| Not a single NMSF as far as I know. How is college placement? |