Big Law and Parenting

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you need a day nanny and a night nanny to raise your children, what is the point of even having kids?

But once you make partner, and have tons of money , your time is much more flexible (business development lunches, client interaction, etc). Kids are entering older elem and quite capable to travel, take on adventure, help guide them towards building their own life. Plus you will have money to give them almost endless options, they can pursue arts or charitable work and not have to make the trade offs BigLaw parents have to make.

This is either sarcasm, or you are an optimistic 3L. The partners at my firm are in the office earlier and later than most of the associates. After a few years of being partner, they look like they've aged 20 years.

Optimistic. But once partner is like 50, can't they coast on connections and book of business? The relationships and wisdom from experience are their assets, not hours in the office. They still need to respond to clients like rabbits on cocaine, but most clients are probably home for dinner too most nights. They then task their associates to the grindstone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you need a day nanny and a night nanny to raise your children, what is the point of even having kids?

But once you make partner, and have tons of money , your time is much more flexible (business development lunches, client interaction, etc). Kids are entering older elem and quite capable to travel, take on adventure, help guide them towards building their own life. Plus you will have money to give them almost endless options, they can pursue arts or charitable work and not have to make the trade offs BigLaw parents have to make.

This is either sarcasm, or you are an optimistic 3L. The partners at my firm are in the office earlier and later than most of the associates. After a few years of being partner, they look like they've aged 20 years.

Optimistic. But once partner is like 50, can't they coast on connections and book of business? The relationships and wisdom from experience are their assets, not hours in the office. They still need to respond to clients like rabbits on cocaine, but most clients are probably home for dinner too most nights. They then task their associates to the grindstone.

Haha, not at all. The clients are paying for the partner, not for the associates (and they increasingly make this clear). Partners still bill a large number of hours (though not as many as associates), while spending a ridiculous amount of time on client development, billing, supervising/evaluating associates, and firm administration/committees. Yes, some partners are fortunate enough to be able to get home around 6 or 7, spend an hour with their families, and then get back online for the rest of the night. But it's not a life of luxury, by any means.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you need a day nanny and a night nanny to raise your children, what is the point of even having kids?

But once you make partner, and have tons of money , your time is much more flexible (business development lunches, client interaction, etc). Kids are entering older elem and quite capable to travel, take on adventure, help guide them towards building their own life. Plus you will have money to give them almost endless options, they can pursue arts or charitable work and not have to make the trade offs BigLaw parents have to make.

This is either sarcasm, or you are an optimistic 3L. The partners at my firm are in the office earlier and later than most of the associates. After a few years of being partner, they look like they've aged 20 years.

No doubt. Client lunches are tough when your client is in Dallas. Or Tel Aviv. And associates don't have fax machines installed in their wive's delivery room. Or dash out at midnight to the office hours after their spouse gives birth.

The thing that always surprised me is that after making partner and earning a ton of money, they don't retire early. Teach kinder garden or something. But they keep going and going well beyond what is needed to be financially well off. I guess that is just part of the partner personality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you need a day nanny and a night nanny to raise your children, what is the point of even having kids?

But once you make partner, and have tons of money , your time is much more flexible (business development lunches, client interaction, etc). Kids are entering older elem and quite capable to travel, take on adventure, help guide them towards building their own life. Plus you will have money to give them almost endless options, they can pursue arts or charitable work and not have to make the trade offs BigLaw parents have to make.

This is either sarcasm, or you are an optimistic 3L. The partners at my firm are in the office earlier and later than most of the associates. After a few years of being partner, they look like they've aged 20 years.

No doubt. Client lunches are tough when your client is in Dallas. Or Tel Aviv. And associates don't have fax machines installed in their wive's delivery room. Or dash out at midnight to the office hours after their spouse gives birth.

The thing that always surprised me is that after making partner and earning a ton of money, they don't retire early. Teach kinder garden or something. But they keep going and going well beyond what is needed to be financially well off. I guess that is just part of the partner personality.

Biglaw-to-fed refugee here - When I was at a firm, there was this retired partner who maintained a counsel role, in his 80s. He was in the office every day by 7 am and stayed until the evening. He had very few clients, and mostly stayed busy by ordering his secretary around (which was annoying, because she also was my secretary, and I actually had to work). He died a few years ago, and according to his obituary, he was divorced with a few kids and many grandchildren. Why on earth would he not retire and spend his last years with them??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you need a day nanny and a night nanny to raise your children, what is the point of even having kids?

But once you make partner, and have tons of money , your time is much more flexible (business development lunches, client interaction, etc). Kids are entering older elem and quite capable to travel, take on adventure, help guide them towards building their own life. Plus you will have money to give them almost endless options, they can pursue arts or charitable work and not have to make the trade offs BigLaw parents have to make.

This is either sarcasm, or you are an optimistic 3L. The partners at my firm are in the office earlier and later than most of the associates. After a few years of being partner, they look like they've aged 20 years.

No doubt. Client lunches are tough when your client is in Dallas. Or Tel Aviv. And associates don't have fax machines installed in their wive's delivery room. Or dash out at midnight to the office hours after their spouse gives birth.

The thing that always surprised me is that after making partner and earning a ton of money, they don't retire early. Teach kinder garden or something. But they keep going and going well beyond what is needed to be financially well off. I guess that is just part of the partner personality.

That was always surprising to me too. I think it's partly golden handcuffs (they start living an extremely expensive lifestyle with super wealthy friends, and want to maintain it) and partly the hyper-competitive personalities.

Partners at my firm still billed a lot. It's "easier" billing in some ways - more calls, lunch meetings, and travel hours vs. grinding it out on doc review and discovery. But still a ton of time, and basically impossible without a SAH spouse and/or a ton of outsourcing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you need a day nanny and a night nanny to raise your children, what is the point of even having kids?

But once you make partner, and have tons of money , your time is much more flexible (business development lunches, client interaction, etc). Kids are entering older elem and quite capable to travel, take on adventure, help guide them towards building their own life. Plus you will have money to give them almost endless options, they can pursue arts or charitable work and not have to make the trade offs BigLaw parents have to make.

This is either sarcasm, or you are an optimistic 3L. The partners at my firm are in the office earlier and later than most of the associates. After a few years of being partner, they look like they've aged 20 years.

No doubt. Client lunches are tough when your client is in Dallas. Or Tel Aviv. And associates don't have fax machines installed in their wive's delivery room. Or dash out at midnight to the office hours after their spouse gives birth.

The thing that always surprised me is that after making partner and earning a ton of money, they don't retire early. Teach kinder garden or something. But they keep going and going well beyond what is needed to be financially well off. I guess that is just part of the partner personality.

Biglaw-to-fed refugee here - When I was at a firm, there was this retired partner who maintained a counsel role, in his 80s. He was in the office every day by 7 am and stayed until the evening. He had very few clients, and mostly stayed busy by ordering his secretary around (which was annoying, because she also was my secretary, and I actually had to work). He died a few years ago, and according to his obituary, he was divorced with a few kids and many grandchildren. Why on earth would he not retire and spend his last years with them??

I think it's kind of a catch-22 - you work so hard at your job that it becomes your whole life. You define yourself through your career success, and then when you are staring down a future without working it feels like losing most of what makes you who you are.

[Anonymous]

And that's sad. I left Biglaw after seeing this too many times. People losing themselves in their quest for career. No wonder so many divorces occur.

An old classmate just retired after 15 years as a NYC Biglaw partner. Wealthy. Moved back to his home state. His comment about what Biglaw gave him? Having never golfed before, Biglaw got him good enough to coach high school and college golf for free. He loves it.

[Anonymous]

I agree with many on here that biglaw can be very taxing. But there are many opportunities in biglaw where the hours are more reasonable, the clients and work more flexible, etc. Lots of regulatory jobs in DC where the work isn't crushing. I'm a tax partner and I work on a 80% schedule (so my schedule looks like a regular 9-5 job). My husband is not a lawyer but travels constantly, so I'm the default. But my son is in school and we don't have a nanny and it works out fine. I still attend most field trips and that kind of stuff, though admittedly on weekends we bail on most parties so that we can just hang out at home and relax together. The woman in the office beside me is a full time partner with 2 young kids, and they don't have a nanny. She does drop off and comes in around 10am every day and her husband does pick up. Another woman on our team is counsel with high school aged kids and she is probably at about 50% but just comes and goes when she pleases. Lots of working from home among us - which has really normalized in the last 5 years (I think because most of the rainmaker partners are now in their late 40s and early 50s and came in the age where technology and family obligations are more normal than the old timers 10 years older than then). I'm not saying our circumstances are the same as everyone's, but these arrangements aren't unheard of.

And to the snide comments above about "outsourcing" - there are different levels outsourcing. Sure, some people have day time and night time nannies (though frankly, I used to live in Miami, and the sahms there were more guilty of this than anyone). Maybe that's questionable. But when people are encouraged to outsource, I think the following are harmless time savers that don't interfere in my relationship with my kids:

- once or twice a week cleaning
- amazon prime - yay!
- our speech therapist comes to my son's school - instead of my taking a half day to pick him up and get him there.
- blue apron, or giant delivery or whatever food delivery - we don't happen to use these because we love cooking, but go for it.
- take out or restaurants - go for it
- having a car service or afterschool pick-up sitter or other person who handles driving around: would LOVE to get this. I waste such an outrageous amount of time hauling my son back and forth from school, and he hates talking to me then. I don't need to be a martyr and spend 2 hours a day driving my kids all over town. I haven't coordinated any of this yet, but would love to. I have a colleague (another big law partner without a nanny) who laughs about her now-college aged son, and how she insisted on being on a schedule when he was younger to pick him up and take him to activities every day, because so many people said that these are the moments that working parents miss out on when you're just having quality time in the car. And she said for 6 years, he moody son sat in the seat and rolled his eyes at her and was like "whatever mom" and it was the opposite of quality time. That one makes me chuckle.

These things are just good uses of your time but don't have an impact on your relationship with your kids. So outsource away!

[Anonymous]

There's a BIG difference between outsourcing stuff like meals, housecleaning, etc., and outsourcing 24/7 childcare. At my former firm, there were partners who have nannies from 7 a.m. to 10 p.m., and they never see their children. One partner told me that he usually only saw his children on the rare weekends when he wasn't traveling. To me, no amount of money is worth that.

That said, it was my impression that the regulatory practices did provide partners with more flexibility than the litigation and corporate practices.

Anonymous wrote:I agree with many on here that biglaw can be very taxing. But there are many opportunities in biglaw where the hours are more reasonable, the clients and work more flexible, etc. Lots of regulatory jobs in DC where the work isn't crushing. I'm a tax partner and I work on a 80% schedule (so my schedule looks like a regular 9-5 job). My husband is not a lawyer but travels constantly, so I'm the default. But my son is in school and we don't have a nanny and it works out fine. I still attend most field trips and that kind of stuff, though admittedly on weekends we bail on most parties so that we can just hang out at home and relax together. The woman in the office beside me is a full time partner with 2 young kids, and they don't have a nanny. She does drop off and comes in around 10am every day and her husband does pick up. Another woman on our team is counsel with high school aged kids and she is probably at about 50% but just comes and goes when she pleases. Lots of working from home among us - which has really normalized in the last 5 years (I think because most of the rainmaker partners are now in their late 40s and early 50s and came in the age where technology and family obligations are more normal than the old timers 10 years older than then). I'm not saying our circumstances are the same as everyone's, but these arrangements aren't unheard of.

And to the snide comments above about "outsourcing" - there are different levels outsourcing. Sure, some people have day time and night time nannies (though frankly, I used to live in Miami, and the sahms there were more guilty of this than anyone). Maybe that's questionable. But when people are encouraged to outsource, I think the following are harmless time savers that don't interfere in my relationship with my kids:

- once or twice a week cleaning
- amazon prime - yay!
- our speech therapist comes to my son's school - instead of my taking a half day to pick him up and get him there.
- blue apron, or giant delivery or whatever food delivery - we don't happen to use these because we love cooking, but go for it.
- take out or restaurants - go for it
- having a car service or afterschool pick-up sitter or other person who handles driving around: would LOVE to get this. I waste such an outrageous amount of time hauling my son back and forth from school, and he hates talking to me then. I don't need to be a martyr and spend 2 hours a day driving my kids all over town. I haven't coordinated any of this yet, but would love to. I have a colleague (another big law partner without a nanny) who laughs about her now-college aged son, and how she insisted on being on a schedule when he was younger to pick him up and take him to activities every day, because so many people said that these are the moments that working parents miss out on when you're just having quality time in the car. And she said for 6 years, he moody son sat in the seat and rolled his eyes at her and was like "whatever mom" and it was the opposite of quality time. That one makes me chuckle.

These things are just good uses of your time but don't have an impact on your relationship with your kids. So outsource away!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you need a day nanny and a night nanny to raise your children, what is the point of even having kids?

But once you make partner, and have tons of money , your time is much more flexible (business development lunches, client interaction, etc). Kids are entering older elem and quite capable to travel, take on adventure, help guide them towards building their own life. Plus you will have money to give them almost endless options, they can pursue arts or charitable work and not have to make the trade offs BigLaw parents have to make.

This is either sarcasm, or you are an optimistic 3L. The partners at my firm are in the office earlier and later than most of the associates. After a few years of being partner, they look like they've aged 20 years.

Optimistic. But once partner is like 50, can't they coast on connections and book of business? The relationships and wisdom from experience are their assets, not hours in the office. They still need to respond to clients like rabbits on cocaine, but most clients are probably home for dinner too most nights. They then task their associates to the grindstone.

LOL, I almost spit out my lunch. Hilarious!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you need a day nanny and a night nanny to raise your children, what is the point of even having kids?

But once you make partner, and have tons of money , your time is much more flexible (business development lunches, client interaction, etc). Kids are entering older elem and quite capable to travel, take on adventure, help guide them towards building their own life. Plus you will have money to give them almost endless options, they can pursue arts or charitable work and not have to make the trade offs BigLaw parents have to make.

This is either sarcasm, or you are an optimistic 3L. The partners at my firm are in the office earlier and later than most of the associates. After a few years of being partner, they look like they've aged 20 years.

No doubt. Client lunches are tough when your client is in Dallas. Or Tel Aviv. And associates don't have fax machines installed in their wive's delivery room. Or dash out at midnight to the office hours after their spouse gives birth.

The thing that always surprised me is that after making partner and earning a ton of money, they don't retire early. Teach kinder garden or something. But they keep going and going well beyond what is needed to be financially well off. I guess that is just part of the partner personality.

Because a 50-year-old partner probably has a 10-year-old in private school who is many years away from college yet. Wealthy, yes. Retire young while your kids are still in elementary school wealthy? Probably not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a big law sahm. Dh is home by 7:30. He will work after the kids go to bed and sometimes on weekends. I only have cleaning help once a week and thankfully he doesn't travel too often. No local family but our parents come in to help when we know he is having crazy weeks.

I wouldn't say weekly cleaning is an "only." That's a nice perk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you need a day nanny and a night nanny to raise your children, what is the point of even having kids?

But once you make partner, and have tons of money , your time is much more flexible (business development lunches, client interaction, etc). Kids are entering older elem and quite capable to travel, take on adventure, help guide them towards building their own life. Plus you will have money to give them almost endless options, they can pursue arts or charitable work and not have to make the trade offs BigLaw parents have to make.

This is either sarcasm, or you are an optimistic 3L. The partners at my firm are in the office earlier and later than most of the associates. After a few years of being partner, they look like they've aged 20 years.

Optimistic. But once partner is like 50, can't they coast on connections and book of business? The relationships and wisdom from experience are their assets, not hours in the office. They still need to respond to clients like rabbits on cocaine, but most clients are probably home for dinner too most nights. They then task their associates to the grindstone.

It all depends on the firm and the practice. How a firm compensates is key. Do they compensate on how much business you bring in and keep others busy with, what you actually work at your own desk or a combination of both? Some firms you can just be a "rainmaker" but that is changing, as other partners who actually manage the work often can pack up those clients and take them with them. The rainmakers actually need to share, so they either cut their draw by sharing, manage the relationship closely or find a firm that is willing to risk the non-generating partners leaving by overcompensating the rainmaker and under-compensating the non-generating partner. The last type of firm is becoming more and more rare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you need a day nanny and a night nanny to raise your children, what is the point of even having kids?

But once you make partner, and have tons of money , your time is much more flexible (business development lunches, client interaction, etc). Kids are entering older elem and quite capable to travel, take on adventure, help guide them towards building their own life. Plus you will have money to give them almost endless options, they can pursue arts or charitable work and not have to make the trade offs BigLaw parents have to make.

This is either sarcasm, or you are an optimistic 3L. The partners at my firm are in the office earlier and later than most of the associates. After a few years of being partner, they look like they've aged 20 years.

No doubt. Client lunches are tough when your client is in Dallas. Or Tel Aviv. And associates don't have fax machines installed in their wive's delivery room. Or dash out at midnight to the office hours after their spouse gives birth.

The thing that always surprised me is that after making partner and earning a ton of money, they don't retire early. Teach kinder garden or something. But they keep going and going well beyond what is needed to be financially well off. I guess that is just part of the partner personality.

Because a 50-year-old partner probably has a 10-year-old in private school who is many years away from college yet. Wealthy, yes. Retire young while your kids are still in elementary school wealthy? Probably not.

Because public schools would be so gauche.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you need a day nanny and a night nanny to raise your children, what is the point of even having kids?

But once you make partner, and have tons of money , your time is much more flexible (business development lunches, client interaction, etc). Kids are entering older elem and quite capable to travel, take on adventure, help guide them towards building their own life. Plus you will have money to give them almost endless options, they can pursue arts or charitable work and not have to make the trade offs BigLaw parents have to make.

This is either sarcasm, or you are an optimistic 3L. The partners at my firm are in the office earlier and later than most of the associates. After a few years of being partner, they look like they've aged 20 years.

Optimistic. But once partner is like 50, can't they coast on connections and book of business? The relationships and wisdom from experience are their assets, not hours in the office. They still need to respond to clients like rabbits on cocaine, but most clients are probably home for dinner too most nights. They then task their associates to the grindstone.

Hahaha. I used to be in biglaw. I was on a case requiring us to be in the office working full days every weekend for months, and the main partner on the case worked just as hard (probably harder) than the rest of us. One saturday found him throwing a ball with his 6 YO son in the hallway outside his office for a few minutes here and there between work things. It was so f*cking pathetic, I was just done after that.