Middle school grades on high school transcripts

[Anonymous]

I heard some colleges don't accept middle-school language to fulfill their requirements. Why not wait with foreign language till 9th. Nothing wrong with that! That's what we're doing. Also many colleges want to see grades going up over time so if there is a B early on I doubt it makes a damn bit of difference. If you are this concerned about a B in a first FL class, you will probably be stressing out about your DC's grades in high school and your DC will feel it. Just encourage them to do their best and aim to do what they like--the rest takes care of itself.

[Anonymous]

I would like for my child to wait till 9th but he goes to a magnet where there are almost no electives to choose from and all of the magnet kids take a language. I really wish he didn't have to have this added pressure now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:17:16 again. We were given the information about foreign language during a parent information meeting at SSIMS. DD is in fifth grade, and she and all her friends were recommended for foreign language next year.

I'm PP, I have a current sixth grader and a ninth grader and went to SSIMS they both seem to run in circles where most friends started language in sixth, but this is above grade level and it's not a large percentage of the students. At the incoming parent meeting a year ago admin encouraged seeking out language in sixth if it all possible, but it's not automatic.

thanks. After reading your response, I wondered how I could have totally misconstrued what I heard, so I went and found the presentation they made to parents. It is somewhat confusing. I am not sure if the link will work properly. On page 20, under world language placement information, they say that placement in foreign language requires MAP-R of advanced or high proficient and teacher recommendation. So, that is consistent with your response and experience. But then they say that Digital Literacy is for those with MAP-R scores below grade level and who could benefit from instruction on reading strategies, and Read 180 is for those with MAP-R scores two grade levels below and with low to moderate reading comprehension skills. The presentation and accompanying discussion gave the definite impression that World languages was the expected path, and the Reading classes were for those needing additional support. I wonder if this is a change this year.
http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/schools/ssims/homepage/20165ParentPresentation1%2026%2016.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:17:16 again. We were given the information about foreign language during a parent information meeting at SSIMS. DD is in fifth grade, and she and all her friends were recommended for foreign language next year.

I'm PP, I have a current sixth grader and a ninth grader and went to SSIMS they both seem to run in circles where most friends started language in sixth, but this is above grade level and it's not a large percentage of the students. At the incoming parent meeting a year ago admin encouraged seeking out language in sixth if it all possible, but it's not automatic.

thanks. After reading your response, I wondered how I could have totally misconstrued what I heard, so I went and found the presentation they made to parents. It is somewhat confusing. I am not sure if the link will work properly. On page 20, under world language placement information, they say that placement in foreign language requires MAP-R of advanced or high proficient and teacher recommendation. So, that is consistent with your response and experience. But then they say that Digital Literacy is for those with MAP-R scores below grade level and who could benefit from instruction on reading strategies, and Read 180 is for those with MAP-R scores two grade levels below and with low to moderate reading comprehension skills. The presentation and accompanying discussion gave the definite impression that World languages was the expected path, and the Reading classes were for those needing additional support. I wonder if this is a change this year.
http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/schools/ssims/homepage/20165ParentPresentation1%2026%2016.pdf

Sorry, I did forget they had introduced Digital Literacy, it was just Reading when my first started there. I think there's nothing wrong with starting a language in sixth both mine have done well (second is there now, so hard to project forward) but it's something he's excited about and hasn't been too difficult. The presentations are confusing and there's plenty I didn't catch first time round.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I heard some colleges don't accept middle-school language to fulfill their requirements. Why not wait with foreign language till 9th. Nothing wrong with that! That's what we're doing. Also many colleges want to see grades going up over time so if there is a B early on I doubt it makes a damn bit of difference. If you are this concerned about a B in a first FL class, you will probably be stressing out about your DC's grades in high school and your DC will feel it. Just encourage them to do their best and aim to do what they like--the rest takes care of itself.

If your child is a good student, you'll want to avoid waiting to take language until 9th grade, unless your child wants to take a less commonly taught language (Arabic, Japanese, Chinese.) Level 1 Spanish and French at high schools are not pretty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I heard some colleges don't accept middle-school language to fulfill their requirements. Why not wait with foreign language till 9th. Nothing wrong with that! That's what we're doing. Also many colleges want to see grades going up over time so if there is a B early on I doubt it makes a damn bit of difference. If you are this concerned about a B in a first FL class, you will probably be stressing out about your DC's grades in high school and your DC will feel it. Just encourage them to do their best and aim to do what they like--the rest takes care of itself.

If your child is a good student, you'll want to avoid waiting to take language until 9th grade, unless your child wants to take a less commonly taught language (Arabic, Japanese, Chinese.) Level 1 Spanish and French at high schools are not pretty.

Can you elaborate?

Are you recommending a kid takes a high school course in middle school to avoid taking classes with problem kids?

[Anonymous]

OP, my child is a sixth grader at Pyle Middle School and when I attended the parent info night last year, I, too, found the information and "guidance" on whether or not to start a world language in sixth misleading and confusing. My child's elem school gave no opinion or guidance, other than that he was recommended as ready for a world language (which seemed to me simply to mean he didn't need reading support, not that the teacher actually thought he would do well in a world language class), so he had the option to take one or to take digital literacy. I asked many other parents at the time (incl many whose children, like mine, had high map-R scores and were strong readers) and I got a mixed bag of answers - it seemed many wanted their child to start a world language, but equally many felt their child wasn't ready in their first year of middle school for their grade to count toward their high school gpa (not that they felt that their kids were not ready for the class, by the way - an important distinction and where I think MoCo is failing our students if parents are holding off on having their kids start a world language simply because of that fact). I fell into the latter camp - as much as I recognize that the earlier the better for one to start learning a second language, I allowed my child to take digital literacy because I did not think his study skills had been developed at all in elem school and I feared that his learning curve would have a long term impact that seemed an unfair burdencon him at age 11. Anyway, I don't regret the decision, although I do think he would have been fine taking the language, too - he says that digital literacy can be boring at times, but he probably would have felt that way in french I, too . I really think this policy is crazy in MoCo - I am not aware of any other middle schools in other areas of the country that follow this policy that languages (and some math) taken in middle school will count towards high school gpa. My own experience many years ago at a reputable pulic school in Westchester County, NY was that I had taken enough spanish in middle school to start in spanish II in ninth grade (and also algrebra II) but my high school gpa only used grades earned while I was IN high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, my child is a sixth grader at Pyle Middle School and when I attended the parent info night last year, I, too, found the information and "guidance" on whether or not to start a world language in sixth misleading and confusing. My child's elem school gave no opinion or guidance, other than that he was recommended as ready for a world language (which seemed to me simply to mean he didn't need reading support, not that the teacher actually thought he would do well in a world language class), so he had the option to take one or to take digital literacy. I asked many other parents at the time (incl many whose children, like mine, had high map-R scores and were strong readers) and I got a mixed bag of answers - it seemed many wanted their child to start a world language, but equally many felt their child wasn't ready in their first year of middle school for their grade to count toward their high school gpa (not that they felt that their kids were not ready for the class, by the way - an important distinction and where I think MoCo is failing our students if parents are holding off on having their kids start a world language simply because of that fact). I fell into the latter camp - as much as I recognize that the earlier the better for one to start learning a second language, I allowed my child to take digital literacy because I did not think his study skills had been developed at all in elem school and I feared that his learning curve would have a long term impact that seemed an unfair burdencon him at age 11. Anyway, I don't regret the decision, although I do think he would have been fine taking the language, too - he says that digital literacy can be boring at times, but he probably would have felt that way in french I, too . I really think this policy is crazy in MoCo - I am not aware of any other middle schools in other areas of the country that follow this policy that languages (and some math) taken in middle school will count towards high school gpa. My own experience many years ago at a reputable pulic school in Westchester County, NY was that I had taken enough spanish in middle school to start in spanish II in ninth grade (and also algrebra II) but my high school gpa only used grades earned while I was IN high school.

I also went to high school in Westchester, and had the very same experience with French and math. But this whole thread raises a huge question for me as the parent of a current 5th grader. Have the stakes become so high, that a B in French in 6th grade will have serious repercussions on a student's ability to get into a good college? Yes, I understand it will be part of the overall GPA. But won't the transcript show that the grade was earned when the kid was 11? And the larger question, do kids with B averages not get into college these days? Is the pressure really that high?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, my child is a sixth grader at Pyle Middle School and when I attended the parent info night last year, I, too, found the information and "guidance" on whether or not to start a world language in sixth misleading and confusing. My child's elem school gave no opinion or guidance, other than that he was recommended as ready for a world language (which seemed to me simply to mean he didn't need reading support, not that the teacher actually thought he would do well in a world language class), so he had the option to take one or to take digital literacy. I asked many other parents at the time (incl many whose children, like mine, had high map-R scores and were strong readers) and I got a mixed bag of answers - it seemed many wanted their child to start a world language, but equally many felt their child wasn't ready in their first year of middle school for their grade to count toward their high school gpa (not that they felt that their kids were not ready for the class, by the way - an important distinction and where I think MoCo is failing our students if parents are holding off on having their kids start a world language simply because of that fact). I fell into the latter camp - as much as I recognize that the earlier the better for one to start learning a second language, I allowed my child to take digital literacy because I did not think his study skills had been developed at all in elem school and I feared that his learning curve would have a long term impact that seemed an unfair burdencon him at age 11. Anyway, I don't regret the decision, although I do think he would have been fine taking the language, too - he says that digital literacy can be boring at times, but he probably would have felt that way in french I, too . I really think this policy is crazy in MoCo - I am not aware of any other middle schools in other areas of the country that follow this policy that languages (and some math) taken in middle school will count towards high school gpa. My own experience many years ago at a reputable pulic school in Westchester County, NY was that I had taken enough spanish in middle school to start in spanish II in ninth grade (and also algrebra II) but my high school gpa only used grades earned while I was IN high school.

I also went to high school in Westchester, and had the very same experience with French and math. But this whole thread raises a huge question for me as the parent of a current 5th grader. Have the stakes become so high, that a B in French in 6th grade will have serious repercussions on a student's ability to get into a good college? Yes, I understand it will be part of the overall GPA. But won't the transcript show that the grade was earned when the kid was 11? And the larger question, do kids with B averages not get into college these days? Is the pressure really that high?

Depends on your race - black and Hispanic kids can get lower grades than Asian and white. Until the Supreme Court ends affirmative action that is the way it is for colleges. I understand the need for African Americans as their ancestors were harmed in the past, however someone that comes here illegally should not get a pass to attend public colleges with lower grades before other students.

[Anonymous]

20:15, are you saying that white kids with B averages don't get into college? Because unless that is what you are trying to say, your answer is not an answer, just a lame attempt at trolling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, my child is a sixth grader at Pyle Middle School and when I attended the parent info night last year, I, too, found the information and "guidance" on whether or not to start a world language in sixth misleading and confusing. My child's elem school gave no opinion or guidance, other than that he was recommended as ready for a world language (which seemed to me simply to mean he didn't need reading support, not that the teacher actually thought he would do well in a world language class), so he had the option to take one or to take digital literacy. I asked many other parents at the time (incl many whose children, like mine, had high map-R scores and were strong readers) and I got a mixed bag of answers - it seemed many wanted their child to start a world language, but equally many felt their child wasn't ready in their first year of middle school for their grade to count toward their high school gpa (not that they felt that their kids were not ready for the class, by the way - an important distinction and where I think MoCo is failing our students if parents are holding off on having their kids start a world language simply because of that fact). I fell into the latter camp - as much as I recognize that the earlier the better for one to start learning a second language, I allowed my child to take digital literacy because I did not think his study skills had been developed at all in elem school and I feared that his learning curve would have a long term impact that seemed an unfair burdencon him at age 11. Anyway, I don't regret the decision, although I do think he would have been fine taking the language, too - he says that digital literacy can be boring at times, but he probably would have felt that way in french I, too . I really think this policy is crazy in MoCo - I am not aware of any other middle schools in other areas of the country that follow this policy that languages (and some math) taken in middle school will count towards high school gpa. My own experience many years ago at a reputable pulic school in Westchester County, NY was that I had taken enough spanish in middle school to start in spanish II in ninth grade (and also algrebra II) but my high school gpa only used grades earned while I was IN high school.

I also went to high school in Westchester, and had the very same experience with French and math. But this whole thread raises a huge question for me as the parent of a current 5th grader. Have the stakes become so high, that a B in French in 6th grade will have serious repercussions on a student's ability to get into a good college? Yes, I understand it will be part of the overall GPA. But won't the transcript show that the grade was earned when the kid was 11? And the larger question, do kids with B averages not get into college these days? Is the pressure really that high?

Depends on your race - black and Hispanic kids can get lower grades than Asian and white. Until the Supreme Court ends affirmative action that is the way it is for colleges. I understand the need for African Americans as their ancestors were harmed in the past, however someone that comes here illegally should not get a pass to attend public colleges with lower grades before other students.

This post is effed up in so many ways (because only the "ancestors" of African Americans have been harmed by racism, right?), but at the end of the day, if some 12 year old leaves everything she knows and walks 1,000 miles for a chance at a better life and manages to do better in school in her second language than my kid can do in his first language then by all means give that kid a decent college education and see what she can do for this country.

[Anonymous]

This is one issue that has tempted me to try and take on the MCPS bureaucracy because it's so stupid.

First of all, we have a big problem if 6th grade Spanish I is actually equivalent to 9th grade Spanish I-- I can't believe anyone thinks that is the case.

Second, the rationale is that courses that could be used to satisfy HS graduation requirements should appear on HS transcripts. But hardly anyone actually uses 6th grade Spanish (or 7th grade algebra) to satisfy their HS graduation requirement. It would be perfectly easy to say only those kids who actually use these classes to graduate should have them appear on their transcripts.

Third, even for kids using the classes to satisfy graduation requirements, there is no reason the actual grade should be included on transcripts. Look at what happens if you take AP math in HS and go to UMD. You can use the AP class to satisfy distribution/graduation requirements but that doesn't mean they take your AP grade and average into your college GPA-- because of course they realize that would be unjustified if not silly.

Fourth, the policy is having the effect of either discouraging kids from taking Spanish in MS, or of making those kids who take it think that Spanish is actually their most important class (since it appears on their HS transcript). Those are terrible outcomes for a stupid, unjustified policy.

[Anonymous]

'First of all, we have a big problem if 6th grade Spanish I is actually equivalent to 9th grade Spanish I-- I can't believe anyone thinks that is the case."

It is actually..same currciulum same tests. And remember few kids actually take Spanish I in 9th grade. Depending on the feeder middle Spanish 3 or 4 is the norm for 9th graders. My DS took Spanish 2 and it was unusual.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is one issue that has tempted me to try and take on the MCPS bureaucracy because it's so stupid.

First of all, we have a big problem if 6th grade Spanish I is actually equivalent to 9th grade Spanish I-- I can't believe anyone thinks that is the case.

Second, the rationale is that courses that could be used to satisfy HS graduation requirements should appear on HS transcripts. But hardly anyone actually uses 6th grade Spanish (or 7th grade algebra) to satisfy their HS graduation requirement. It would be perfectly easy to say only those kids who actually use these classes to graduate should have them appear on their transcripts.

Third, even for kids using the classes to satisfy graduation requirements, there is no reason the actual grade should be included on transcripts. Look at what happens if you take AP math in HS and go to UMD. You can use the AP class to satisfy distribution/graduation requirements but that doesn't mean they take your AP grade and average into your college GPA-- because of course they realize that would be unjustified if not silly.

Fourth, the policy is having the effect of either discouraging kids from taking Spanish in MS, or of making those kids who take it think that Spanish is actually their most important class (since it appears on their HS transcript). Those are terrible outcomes for a stupid, unjustified policy.

As the prior poster indicated it is the same class. I'm sure there is some variation between teachers and schools. Both of my kids felt that when they went from one level in middle school to the next level in high school (two different languages), the high school class was not as challenging as the previous level class they took in middle school.

Certainly, being able to use a high school class (in middle school) to satisfy a high school requirement is a consideration, but I don't see it as the only rationale for the policy. I think the rationale should be to give people the credit they earn. If they take a high school class, they should get high school credit.

AP claases are not counted as college classes because they ate not college classes. Theoretically, they are designed to be equivalent to college classes, but seeing as the HIGH SCHOOLS teaching them are not accredited as colleges, colleges can't be sure about the level of instruction. I haven't researched, but I suspect that transfer credits from another COLLEGE would be reflected on a transcript. In this case, it is the SAME school system. I would expect MCPS to know how MCPS classrs compare to other MCPS classes. I think the more appropriate analogy would be for a college student working on a combined bachelor's/master's degree. In that case the school allows an undergraduate taking a graduate level class to get graduate level credit because it's the SAME institution.

Finally, I do not see this policy as discouraging kids from taking foreign language in high school or in making them think of it as their most important course. Perhaps parents do that. This policy allows kids choices. They can take foreign language in middle school or not. They can have their grades on the transcript or not. Why would you take choices away from kids? Why would you refuse to let them have the credit they've earned?

[Anonymous]

I agree with 00:03 above! A sixth grade class should not be calculated into a HS GPA!