Dinged for being "too smart" - how do I transition out of government?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'll take your story at face value. I don't think I'm too smart but I was definitely too ambitious for the government agency I worked at.

Go back to consulting. My government colleagues warned me that the private sector is awful and requires long hours. But I am so so so much happier. I don't mind long hours when I like my coworkers and have work to do and deadlines. I found the slow pce of my agency soul sucking. Government has lazy people and the smart people who stick around for some reason are able to tolerate and thrive in that environment. Maybe they are more attached to the mission. Or more patient. Who knows.

I hate generalizations like this. I've met a lot of smart and capable people in Government. The people who were the most frustrated and left for the private sector were the people who couldn't handled collaborating, building consensus. That is part of bureaucracy, and it slows things down, but it is actually necessary for many government missions. Things move faster in the private sector, but it isn't because people in government are lazy. It's because in government, risk is handled differently. The private sector can take risks and move in leaps and bounds in a way that government agencies cannot -- and should not.

It's fine if you prefer an environment where risk-taking is embraced more, where things move faster. But don't suggest that things move slower in government because government workers are lazy. Government agencies have a different mission and different priorities than the private sector. And that drives the pace.

Frankly, I don't think that is OP's issue. I think OP just doesn't like working with other people or doing anything that isn't high profile. There's a lot of work in government that isn't high profile or glamorous. And it's expected that everyone play a part in doing that work, because it's necessary. If OP marched into a job and took all of the exciting projects and refused to do the more mundane work and her boss indulged that, then of course her coworkers are going to get irritated, especially if they have been there a while and understand that everyone has to do some grunt work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I had a coworker like you.

She was smart and good at her job, but she wasn't the Second Coming. It was clear she thought she was the greatest, and she had absolutely no respect for her coworkers. In fact, she felt they were all lazy and stupid.

She got special treatment, partly because she made it seem like she would leave if she didn't.

Here's the thing: She was INCREDIBLY difficult to work with. She wanted to do everything on her own, didn't seek the input of others (even though that was part of her job), and on top of all of that, expected special treatment with regard to time off and flexibility.

I highly doubt you got "dinged for being too smart." The problem is that you aren't smart enough to see that you got dinged for not working well with others, not doing a good job of building consensus, not communicating well or giving your coworkers a sense of inclusion. These things are important skills in the workplace.

The way your post reads, it's very clear that you have a high opinion of yourself. It also sounds like you want to do things on your own.

Your boss likes you and doesn't want to upset you, and that is why he is phrasing his criticism the way he is.

No matter how smart or how experienced a person is, you don't just start a job and jump to the head of the line when it comes to assignments.

Bingo! You nailed it.
I'm also a Fed and can see this from her post.

I'm also a fed, but a manager and both of you sound like catty, envious do-nothings. I'd say you and your co-workers are probably stupid and lazy. The problem with some people in government is they get used to a pretty low standard of work. A lot of the time, they can't tell the difference between great work and poor work, because they're too stupid. So they see someone else given so-called special treatment and get jealous.

I doubt the coworker you disliked so much was given special treatment just because she threatened to leave. she probably orovided value that you could not recognize. At least enough so that management was willing to keep her on.

The other thing about some people in government is they want everyone to be treated the same, regardless of who does the work. Like e earlier poster mentioned, the ones who do no work want to be paid the same and treated the same as the ones who do the work of two people.

I hope you aren't a manager, because your attitude is horrible.

And no, I'm not lazy and stupid. I'm actually a pretty high producer and do good work. But I also understand that I have to work with other people. My coworker did not understand that.

And she did threaten to leave -- when she was told that she would have to do something everyone was expected to help with. She didn't produce more than other people or even higher quality work. She did good work, but she didn't bring value beyond what others brought. And in fact, she was less valuable than other employees because she flat out refused to do necessary routine work that everyone had to help with to get it done.

People were resentful, and with good reason -- not because they were stupid and lazy.

The biggest problem in government isn't, as people suggest, that people are stupid and lazy. The biggest problem is actually poor management. A lot of mid-level and even senior managers aren't really qualified to be managers, and so they don't know adequate management techniques. The reason why many government workers are sensitive about bosses playing favorites is because that seems to be how people become the boss -- even when they don't really have good people skills or supervisory skills. And there's very little recourse.

I don't think everyone should be treated the same. But I do think that people have to be able to work together and in offices where staffing and budgets are tight, everyone has to be willing to pitch in -- even with the grunt work.

A lot of government work really depends on collaboration. If people are unable to do that, then, yes, they should leave. And if managers are unable to foster an environment where people work together, respect each other, and support each other, then they shouldn't be managers.

[Anonymous]

10:39 here. And I say all of that as someone who once was a supervisor in the private sector and even had to fire an employee. It's not that I can't recognize good work. It's that I can recognize what makes an entire office productive and successful -- as opposed to what just makes one person in said office successful.

[Anonymous]

OP, not trying to snarky. First, in many jobs, you have to accept the boring projects before getting the prime ones. It is understandable that ones that have slogged through the boring ones thought it was their turn to get the prime one. Try to look at it from their perspective.
Also, you say you want to be in a family oriented position, yet want the high profile projects. Those generally do not go together. So it comes off less than genuine to say you want to work family hours but take high pressure high profile assignments.
I get it - the boring work is unfulfilling. But you have been out of the career for several years and you have to "pay your dues" again.

[Anonymous]

Honestly, OP, it sounds like the problem is that you are overqualified for your job and your boss was trying to compensate for that by feeding you the high profile projects. But that was never a realistic plan and was always bound to cause problems. You accepted the job, so do the best you can with what you are given and start looking after being there for an appropriate amount of time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I hate generalizations like this. I've met a lot of smart and capable people in Government. The people who were the most frustrated and left for the private sector were the people who couldn't handled collaborating, building consensus. That is part of bureaucracy, and it slows things down, but it is actually necessary for many government missions. Things move faster in the private sector, but it isn't because people in government are lazy. It's because in government, risk is handled differently. The private sector can take risks and move in leaps and bounds in a way that government agencies cannot -- and should not.

It's fine if you prefer an environment where risk-taking is embraced more, where things move faster. But don't suggest that things move slower in government because government workers are lazy. Government agencies have a different mission and different priorities than the private sector. And that drives the pace.

Frankly, I don't think that is OP's issue. I think OP just doesn't like working with other people or doing anything that isn't high profile. There's a lot of work in government that isn't high profile or glamorous. And it's expected that everyone play a part in doing that work, because it's necessary. If OP marched into a job and took all of the exciting projects and refused to do the more mundane work and her boss indulged that, then of course her coworkers are going to get irritated, especially if they have been there a while and understand that everyone has to do some grunt work.

Or they left because they were sick of too many checks and balances to the point they couldn't do their work, or because the contract vehicles were so cumbersome and slow that they couldn't do their work, or because the technology available was from the 1990s, or because they were sick of working with people who were promoted up to get them out of the way, or because they were sick of pulling dead weight of other coworkers, etc, etc.

If collaborating and consensus-building were all you needed for government positions, I'd still be there.

[Anonymous]

You are smart and competent, but politically naive.

[Anonymous]

As someone who's been both a vice president in a consulting firm and a GS-15 manager in government, let me tell you what I think. Your post has a dozen red flags that suggest you're like several people I've run into over the course of my career, who are 10, 15, or 20 years in to their careers, very smart and hard working, but never succeeding as much as they think they should and frequently being encouraged to "find something else." You're what--in your 40's?--and crying yourself to sleep because the other kids are mean and don't appreciate how special you are? You are in denial about your own limitations and all you want to do is blame others. As long as you keep your hands over your ears when anyone tries to tell you anything negative, and as long as you write off all feedback as pettiness and jealousy, you're never going to change, you're never going to succeed, and you're never going to be happy. And in the meantime you create a ton of drama for your managers because you demand special treatment, piss off the rest of the team, and they have to spend half their time calming down everyone's -- how did you put it -- ruffled feathers. Not something they should be wasting their time on as a manager, if you are as good as you say.

The 12-step programs have it right--the first step toward solving your problem is admitting that you have one. You're not going to, though--you're just going to keep spinning these stories with yourself as the poor, put-upon heroine who has done all the right things and is punished anyways because of all those bad, lazy people who are mean and those incompetent managers who can't figure out how to effectively deploy you because no one understands how special you truly are. And your audience will always have enough familiarity with those archetypes to buy into what you're saying--you've got a lot of supporters here already! Well, not all of us are buying it. I can spot women like you a mile off. If I hear even a whiff of self-pity in an interview, you are done.

Red flags:

Self-pity
I'm sad and depressed, and writing this after a sleepless night filled with tears.
Maybe because of my specialized experience, the only offers I got were from my old agency. I accepted a position that was below my former grade
I'm feeling rather punished for having done a good job.
This is not a new experience, as at times in the past, I've also experienced backlash at this agency for doing something well.
I don't have the kind of network and support I used to.
I remember when I first ran into the "Tall Poppy Syndrome" in government
I'm really, really sad to be where I'm at right now.
I do feel somewhat betrayed and left hanging.

Hands over your ears
So, if you want to be snarky, could you please go somewhere else to post?
I'd welcome any constructive, kind advice.


Blaming others
I've been periodically dinged for being "too smart."
Henry told me that he felt he made mistake in giving a new staff member such high profile assignments.
There are three people who have been organizing and fomenting the sentiment against me.
Henry's taken away any real choice in the matter, anyway.

Making excuses for why you don't have to listen to/respect others
the new boss was of a different type - someone who had gotten where he was by marking time and not offending anyone.
He was older, and he was very threatened by me.
He acknowledges that this is pure professional insecurity and jealousy
He told me on our first meeting (i.e. before we even started working together) that I was too young for the job.
My co-workers seemed initially friendly, but I noticed some cooling off in recent weeks....a number of the staff are deeply resentful and feel that he's playing favorites, giving me assignments that rightfully should have gone to one of them.
He said he pointed out my experience and expertise, which made no impression on the complainants.
Henry's promised me that he'll give me more high profile assignments ...it seems unrealistic to think that he'll ever feel comfortable managing a team...

[Anonymous]

Well I have been in a similar position. Some offices/departments/divisions are the kind of culture where everyone is just coasting along and getting good work done but that is it. As long as everyone does just about the same amount of work with the same amount of skill all works well.
When someone like you comes in, you threaten their "way of life" and they suddenly feel like they might have to start doing things differently and that is really scary.

Look for other jobs and offices with a different culture. Start networking to find an office that is more inline with how you want to work.

[Anonymous]

When I read: dinged for being 'too smart; what I think is that she isn't too smart but lacking in people/office skills. She probably has a very abrasive personality. People don't get upset when someone does good work but they do get upset when someone projects a superior attitude towards the rest of the team. Most likely that is what she is doing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll take your story at face value. I don't think I'm too smart but I was definitely too ambitious for the government agency I worked at.

Go back to consulting. My government colleagues warned me that the private sector is awful and requires long hours. But I am so so so much happier. I don't mind long hours when I like my coworkers and have work to do and deadlines. I found the slow pce of my agency soul sucking. Government has lazy people and the smart people who stick around for some reason are able to tolerate and thrive in that environment. Maybe they are more attached to the mission. Or more patient. Who knows.

I hate generalizations like this. I've met a lot of smart and capable people in Government. The people who were the most frustrated and left for the private sector were the people who couldn't handled collaborating, building consensus. That is part of bureaucracy, and it slows things down, but it is actually necessary for many government missions. Things move faster in the private sector, but it isn't because people in government are lazy. It's because in government, risk is handled differently. The private sector can take risks and move in leaps and bounds in a way that government agencies cannot -- and should not.

It's fine if you prefer an environment where risk-taking is embraced more, where things move faster. But don't suggest that things move slower in government because government workers are lazy. Government agencies have a different mission and different priorities than the private sector. And that drives the pace.

Frankly, I don't think that is OP's issue. I think OP just doesn't like working with other people or doing anything that isn't high profile. There's a lot of work in government that isn't high profile or glamorous. And it's expected that everyone play a part in doing that work, because it's necessary. If OP marched into a job and took all of the exciting projects and refused to do the more mundane work and her boss indulged that, then of course her coworkers are going to get irritated, especially if they have been there a while and understand that everyone has to do some grunt work.

Calm down. I said that there are lazy people in government. Not that government workers are lazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'll take your story at face value. I don't think I'm too smart but I was definitely too ambitious for the government agency I worked at.

Go back to consulting. My government colleagues warned me that the private sector is awful and requires long hours. But I am so so so much happier. I don't mind long hours when I like my coworkers and have work to do and deadlines. I found the slow pce of my agency soul sucking. Government has lazy people and the smart people who stick around for some reason are able to tolerate and thrive in that environment. Maybe they are more attached to the mission. Or more patient. Who knows.

Well she took a government job therefore is lazy.

[Anonymous]

OP - don't you know 5-phases of govt workers?

Phase 1 - "Who is Jane Smith?"
Phase 2 - "We need someone like Jane Smith!"
Phase 3 - "We must have Jane Smith on our team!!!"
Phase 4 - "We need some like Jane Smith!"
Phase 5 - "Who is Jane Smith?"

You are just enjoying your 15-min of fame (Phase 3). Enjoy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As someone who's been both a vice president in a consulting firm and a GS-15 manager in government, let me tell you what I think. Your post has a dozen red flags that suggest you're like several people I've run into over the course of my career, who are 10, 15, or 20 years in to their careers, very smart and hard working, but never succeeding as much as they think they should and frequently being encouraged to "find something else." You're what--in your 40's?--and crying yourself to sleep because the other kids are mean and don't appreciate how special you are? You are in denial about your own limitations and all you want to do is blame others. As long as you keep your hands over your ears when anyone tries to tell you anything negative, and as long as you write off all feedback as pettiness and jealousy, you're never going to change, you're never going to succeed, and you're never going to be happy. And in the meantime you create a ton of drama for your managers because you demand special treatment, piss off the rest of the team, and they have to spend half their time calming down everyone's -- how did you put it -- ruffled feathers. Not something they should be wasting their time on as a manager, if you are as good as you say.

The 12-step programs have it right--the first step toward solving your problem is admitting that you have one. You're not going to, though--you're just going to keep spinning these stories with yourself as the poor, put-upon heroine who has done all the right things and is punished anyways because of all those bad, lazy people who are mean and those incompetent managers who can't figure out how to effectively deploy you because no one understands how special you truly are. And your audience will always have enough familiarity with those archetypes to buy into what you're saying--you've got a lot of supporters here already! Well, not all of us are buying it. I can spot women like you a mile off. If I hear even a whiff of self-pity in an interview, you are done.

Red flags:

Self-pity
I'm sad and depressed, and writing this after a sleepless night filled with tears.
Maybe because of my specialized experience, the only offers I got were from my old agency. I accepted a position that was below my former grade
I'm feeling rather punished for having done a good job.
This is not a new experience, as at times in the past, I've also experienced backlash at this agency for doing something well.
I don't have the kind of network and support I used to.
I remember when I first ran into the "Tall Poppy Syndrome" in government
I'm really, really sad to be where I'm at right now.
I do feel somewhat betrayed and left hanging.

Hands over your ears
So, if you want to be snarky, could you please go somewhere else to post?
I'd welcome any constructive, kind advice.


Blaming others
I've been periodically dinged for being "too smart."
Henry told me that he felt he made mistake in giving a new staff member such high profile assignments.
There are three people who have been organizing and fomenting the sentiment against me.
Henry's taken away any real choice in the matter, anyway.

Making excuses for why you don't have to listen to/respect others
the new boss was of a different type - someone who had gotten where he was by marking time and not offending anyone.
He was older, and he was very threatened by me.
He acknowledges that this is pure professional insecurity and jealousy
He told me on our first meeting (i.e. before we even started working together) that I was too young for the job.
My co-workers seemed initially friendly, but I noticed some cooling off in recent weeks....a number of the staff are deeply resentful and feel that he's playing favorites, giving me assignments that rightfully should have gone to one of them.
He said he pointed out my experience and expertise, which made no impression on the complainants.
Henry's promised me that he'll give me more high profile assignments ...it seems unrealistic to think that he'll ever feel comfortable managing a team...

New poster here - best analysis so far! And I totally agree btw.
And based on her consulting-gov-family-gov history OP is at least in her mid 40s or older but the original post reads like something written by 24 y.o. C'mon, grow up already!

[Anonymous]

Geez...I have kids too and nothing about my job could make me have a sleepless night.

You're taking this shit too seriously, big Poppy.