Whistling past the graveyard of socialism

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is random. Have you been oppressed by socialism your whole life, OP? Do you feel like it's affecting you here in the US?

Not OP, but my younger years have been stunted by the grim reality of socialism (hard-core, not some Swedish model Americans like to idealize). It is not affecting me in the U.S., but I fear it may affect the next generation. It would be incredibly unfortunate.

I suspect by "hardcore socialism" you mean communism. They are very, very different things

No, I mean actual Marxist socialism. Communism has not been built yet. It is what socialists aspire to, but nobody has achieved that level of enlightenment though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is random. Have you been oppressed by socialism your whole life, OP? Do you feel like it's affecting you here in the US?

Not OP, but my younger years have been stunted by the grim reality of socialism (hard-core, not some Swedish model Americans like to idealize). It is not affecting me in the U.S., but I fear it may affect the next generation. It would be incredibly unfortunate.

I suspect by "hardcore socialism" you mean communism. They are very, very different things

No, I mean actual Marxist socialism. Communism has not been built yet. It is what socialists aspire to, but nobody has achieved that level of enlightenment though.

-perhaps because "that level of enlightenment" is a ridiculous and impossible fantasy, as history has proven repeatedly?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is random. Have you been oppressed by socialism your whole life, OP? Do you feel like it's affecting you here in the US?

Not OP, but my younger years have been stunted by the grim reality of socialism (hard-core, not some Swedish model Americans like to idealize). It is not affecting me in the U.S., but I fear it may affect the next generation. It would be incredibly unfortunate.

I suspect by "hardcore socialism" you mean communism. They are very, very different things

No, I mean actual Marxist socialism. Communism has not been built yet. It is what socialists aspire to, but nobody has achieved that level of enlightenment though.

-perhaps because "that level of enlightenment" is a ridiculous and impossible fantasy, as history has proven repeatedly?

I'm pretty sure the PP wrote about "that level of enlightenment" in a tongue-in-cheek manner. Pull that stick out of your rear.

Pure Communism - as envisioned by Marx and Engels - requires men to be enlightened angels. Not gonna happen. That said, that doesn't mean we need to embrace the most heartless and orgiastic aspects of capitalism either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yawn!

+1

Whistling past the OP troll ...

[Anonymous]

^^

here's the link you're looking for, OP:

http://www.theonion.com/blogpost/admit-it-you-people-want-see-how-far-goes-dont-you-50895

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yawn!

+1

Whistling past the OP troll ...

Oh yeah!

[Anonymous]

In any case, capitalism ain't that grand either. So.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is random. Have you been oppressed by socialism your whole life, OP? Do you feel like it's affecting you here in the US?

Not OP, but my younger years have been stunted by the grim reality of socialism (hard-core, not some Swedish model Americans like to idealize). It is not affecting me in the U.S., but I fear it may affect the next generation. It would be incredibly unfortunate.

I suspect by "hardcore socialism" you mean communism. They are very, very different things

No, I mean actual Marxist socialism. Communism has not been built yet. It is what socialists aspire to, but nobody has achieved that level of enlightenment though.

-perhaps because "that level of enlightenment" is a ridiculous and impossible fantasy, as history has proven repeatedly?

I'm pretty sure the PP wrote about "that level of enlightenment" in a tongue-in-cheek manner. Pull that stick out of your rear.

Pure Communism - as envisioned by Marx and Engels - requires men to be enlightened angels. Not gonna happen. That said, that doesn't mean we need to embrace the most heartless and orgiastic aspects of capitalism either.

No, we don't. Capitalism may not be that grand, but it keeps things moving in the right direction and eventually lifts people out of the worst of poverty. Socialism is a race to the bottom, as evidenced by more than one examples.

Americans often perceive capitalism as inherently unfair, while socialism is portrayed as a more equitable system. As someone who experienced it firsthand, I beg to differ. The reality is far from what Bernie Sanders aspires to. Because no matter the political system, social interactions are still determined by human nature. When it's artificially controlled, the results can be really twisted and sick. There are books written about this, so I'm not going to try to explain this in just a few lines. It is difficult to understand without seeing it with your own eyes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In any case, capitalism ain't that grand either. So.

Because it requires you to start from the bottom and stand on your own two feet?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In any case, capitalism ain't that grand either. So.

Because it requires you to start from the bottom and stand on your own two feet?

Exactly. Because it means less “free stuff.” Some people actually like the idea of redistribution because then they don’t have to exert any energy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is random. Have you been oppressed by socialism your whole life, OP? Do you feel like it's affecting you here in the US?

Not OP, but my younger years have been stunted by the grim reality of socialism (hard-core, not some Swedish model Americans like to idealize). It is not affecting me in the U.S., but I fear it may affect the next generation. It would be incredibly unfortunate.

I suspect by "hardcore socialism" you mean communism. They are very, very different things

No, I mean actual Marxist socialism. Communism has not been built yet. It is what socialists aspire to, but nobody has achieved that level of enlightenment though.

-perhaps because "that level of enlightenment" is a ridiculous and impossible fantasy, as history has proven repeatedly?

I'm pretty sure the PP wrote about "that level of enlightenment" in a tongue-in-cheek manner. Pull that stick out of your rear.

Pure Communism - as envisioned by Marx and Engels - requires men to be enlightened angels. Not gonna happen. That said, that doesn't mean we need to embrace the most heartless and orgiastic aspects of capitalism either.

No, we don't. Capitalism may not be that grand, but it keeps things moving in the right direction and eventually lifts people out of the worst of poverty. Socialism is a race to the bottom, as evidenced by more than one examples.

Americans often perceive capitalism as inherently unfair, while socialism is portrayed as a more equitable system. As someone who experienced it firsthand, I beg to differ. The reality is far from what Bernie Sanders aspires to. Because no matter the political system, social interactions are still determined by human nature. When it's artificially controlled, the results can be really twisted and sick. There are books written about this, so I'm not going to try to explain this in just a few lines. It is difficult to understand without seeing it with your own eyes.

Keep your Soviet bloc style anecdotes. You are missing the mark.

- Regards, someone who grew up in a socialist European country and experienced it firsthand as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In any case, capitalism ain't that grand either. So.

Because it requires you to start from the bottom and stand on your own two feet?

That is a quaint and antiquated notion... These days, with offshoring and automation capitalism isn't the level playing field that it was in your grandpa's time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In any case, capitalism ain't that grand either. So.

Because it requires you to start from the bottom and stand on your own two feet?

Exactly. Because it means less “free stuff.” Some people actually like the idea of redistribution because then they don’t have to exert any energy.

In fact, they do. Very much so. They just don't know it yet The goods are redistributed all right, but you still have to "work" to get them, trust me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Keep your Soviet bloc style anecdotes. You are missing the mark.

- Regards, someone who grew up in a socialist European country and experienced it firsthand as well.

A perfect argument. Regards to you too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Keep your Soviet bloc style anecdotes. You are missing the mark.

- Regards, someone who grew up in a socialist European country and experienced it firsthand as well.

A perfect argument. Regards to you too.

Regarding "failed socialism" I have to very very strongly disagree. I lived in "socialist" parts of western Europe for 10 years, and when I was there I enjoyed:

Better infrastructure

Better public services

Better healthcare

Better schools

More affordable college

...and many more benefits

And it

Did NOT stifle innovation (many of the world's top tech companies are in so-called "socialist" europe)

Did NOT stifle entrepreneurism

Did NOT disincentivize hard work

Did NOT impose "rationing"

Did NOT suppress wages

Did NOT tax the rich to death (plenty of rich professionals living in luxury, plenty of multimillionaires and billionaires)

"Free stuff" and all the rest are the lame arguments of morons who have no clue what they are talking about.