too much ABA therapy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As an autistic adult active in the autistic community I strongly recommend reading up on ABA before you decide to do it at all. Don't talk to adults of autistic children, talk to autistic people about it. Hear how they felt as children subjected to ABA practices. Look out for red flags when screening for good therapists. Too many hours are a horrible strain and stress on children's systems. 40 hours a week for example is a full days work for a very small child. Stay away from anyone using food as positive reinforcement. Stay away from anyone using "quiet hands" techniques that prohibit or even punish for stimming. Stay away from anyone enforcing eye contact. At the very least. Who can seriously think that is healthy? Generally ethics of real ABA techniques are doubtful at best. What one would consider "good ABA" is often not real ABA at all so don't confuse the two.

Parents often do not realize how exhausting and often inhumane ABA is. They just see results. But results don't equal good for your child. If you punish for unwanted behavior often enough and reward for wanted behavior often enough of course you get results. But you also disrespect a child's personal right to deny another person's request. ABA so often trains children to follow orders at total disregard for their own free will.

ABA is highly controversial. And since it is not you who is subjected to the therapy but your child - for your child's sake research a lot before you use ABA. There are countless other therapies out there that are less abusive, controversial, controlling, potentially harmful and traumatizing etc.

The very core of ABA is the same as how you would train an animal (and no you cannot say this in any kinder words) so finding more respectful and loving alternatives is always the best way to go. Anything achieved through ABA can be achieved through less invasive forms of therapy.

I agree that trying to enforce eye contact or eliminate is stimming is worthless. Kids use little eye contact or stim because they are in sensory overload. They can't look at faces and listen to verbal input because it is too much at once. They stim because they coping with sensory overload. Eliminating those behaviors through ABA takes away coping methods without making the child better able to cope with an over-whelming environment. Any behavior therapy should teach actual skills, not just strive to make the kid with ASD look normal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am of the mind that the more ABA you can do, the better. Admittedly, we were pretty extreme for our DC -- began ABA at age 2 and did at least 40 hours a week (7 days a week). But it absolutely changed his path. If it's done right, the program will be tailored to his particular needs and goals, so it will be very productive. Best of luck.

+1 We didn't do as many hrs/ week - most 25, now about 12 in addition to dev. preschool programs. We're fortunate that insurance covers it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As an autistic adult active in the autistic community I strongly recommend reading up on ABA before you decide to do it at all. Don't talk to adults of autistic children, talk to autistic people about it. Hear how they felt as children subjected to ABA practices. Look out for red flags when screening for good therapists. Too many hours are a horrible strain and stress on children's systems. 40 hours a week for example is a full days work for a very small child. Stay away from anyone using food as positive reinforcement. Stay away from anyone using "quiet hands" techniques that prohibit or even punish for stimming. Stay away from anyone enforcing eye contact. At the very least. Who can seriously think that is healthy? Generally ethics of real ABA techniques are doubtful at best. What one would consider "good ABA" is often not real ABA at all so don't confuse the two.

Parents often do not realize how exhausting and often inhumane ABA is. They just see results. But results don't equal good for your child. If you punish for unwanted behavior often enough and reward for wanted behavior often enough of course you get results. But you also disrespect a child's personal right to deny another person's request. ABA so often trains children to follow orders at total disregard for their own free will.

ABA is highly controversial. And since it is not you who is subjected to the therapy but your child - for your child's sake research a lot before you use ABA. There are countless other therapies out there that are less abusive, controversial, controlling, potentially harmful and traumatizing etc.

The very core of ABA is the same as how you would train an animal (and no you cannot say this in any kinder words) so finding more respectful and loving alternatives is always the best way to go. Anything achieved through ABA can be achieved through less invasive forms of therapy.

I disagree with you on many points. Most of what you say applies to old-style Lovaas DTT ABA. I was scared to start because of well-intentioned but incorrect opinions, like yours, but I'm so glad we did. My child has been doing a naturalistic form of ABA - Early Start Denver model. I observed ALL his sessions in person in the first six months and still partially observe his sessions today via video monitor. They work toward his goals through age-appropriate play. They don't use any of the scary methods you mentioned. It is a child-led, play based therapy, and my kid can't wait for the therapist to come for the next session. I assure you he's not stressed and he is having a great time. Do NOT judge ABA through the prism of autistic adults - their experiences are vastly different than my child's.

[Anonymous]

PP who's doing naturalistic ABA, can you please share your provider, if you're in the DC/MD/VA area.
Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP who's doing naturalistic ABA, can you please share your provider, if you're in the DC/MD/VA area.
Thank you.

Sorry, would love to help, but we're no longer in the area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP who's doing naturalistic ABA, can you please share your provider, if you're in the DC/MD/VA area.
Thank you.

Sorry, would love to help, but we're no longer in the area.

Different poster but we have a similar type experience with ABA. Our provider is Amazing. My son loves going to ABA. Our providers name is Sonali. She owns the company: http://www.priaaba.com/. She does not accept insurance however, she will give you a bill at the end of the month that has all of the necessary information and then I submit it to insurance myself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an autistic adult active in the autistic community I strongly recommend reading up on ABA before you decide to do it at all. Don't talk to adults of autistic children, talk to autistic people about it. Hear how they felt as children subjected to ABA practices. Look out for red flags when screening for good therapists. Too many hours are a horrible strain and stress on children's systems. 40 hours a week for example is a full days work for a very small child. Stay away from anyone using food as positive reinforcement. Stay away from anyone using "quiet hands" techniques that prohibit or even punish for stimming. Stay away from anyone enforcing eye contact. At the very least. Who can seriously think that is healthy? Generally ethics of real ABA techniques are doubtful at best. What one would consider "good ABA" is often not real ABA at all so don't confuse the two.

Parents often do not realize how exhausting and often inhumane ABA is. They just see results. But results don't equal good for your child. If you punish for unwanted behavior often enough and reward for wanted behavior often enough of course you get results. But you also disrespect a child's personal right to deny another person's request. ABA so often trains children to follow orders at total disregard for their own free will.

ABA is highly controversial. And since it is not you who is subjected to the therapy but your child - for your child's sake research a lot before you use ABA. There are countless other therapies out there that are less abusive, controversial, controlling, potentially harmful and traumatizing etc.

The very core of ABA is the same as how you would train an animal (and no you cannot say this in any kinder words) so finding more respectful and loving alternatives is always the best way to go. Anything achieved through ABA can be achieved through less invasive forms of therapy.

I disagree with you on many points. Most of what you say applies to old-style Lovaas DTT ABA. I was scared to start because of well-intentioned but incorrect opinions, like yours, but I'm so glad we did. My child has been doing a naturalistic form of ABA - Early Start Denver model. I observed ALL his sessions in person in the first six months and still partially observe his sessions today via video monitor. They work toward his goals through age-appropriate play. They don't use any of the scary methods you mentioned. It is a child-led, play based therapy, and my kid can't wait for the therapist to come for the next session. I assure you he's not stressed and he is having a great time. Do NOT judge ABA through the prism of autistic adults - their experiences are vastly different than my child's.

Did you seriously just try to discredit and silence my voice? Congratulations you are doing what so many parents of autistic children do.

Anything that calls itself ABA today and is not actually ABA should be named differently. ABA is abuse. What your child benefited so wonderfully from is thus not actually ABA. Don't you dare to tell me my opinion is incorrect. You have no right to take thousands of autistic people's very real life experiences and with no personal experience of yourself stand up and call them liars. Again, what you are doing with your child is not ABA. It calls itself that because it rides on the positive reputation ABA has for parents of autistic children and making a name for itself would be too difficult. That doesn't make it right.

Autistic people are actually the only ones who should be allowed to have an opinion on this matter as they are the only ones subjected to hours and hours of this kind of therapy for years of their lives.

And finally: if you actually care about autistic people and wish to respect them then stay away from ABA. There are tons of therapies that do what todays "so called" ABA does and do not have the same horrible history. The institution that is ABA should not be supported by anyone who knows the history. Alternatives exist.

[Anonymous]

Any suggestions for other types of therapy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an autistic adult active in the autistic community I strongly recommend reading up on ABA before you decide to do it at all. Don't talk to adults of autistic children, talk to autistic people about it. Hear how they felt as children subjected to ABA practices. Look out for red flags when screening for good therapists. Too many hours are a horrible strain and stress on children's systems. 40 hours a week for example is a full days work for a very small child. Stay away from anyone using food as positive reinforcement. Stay away from anyone using "quiet hands" techniques that prohibit or even punish for stimming. Stay away from anyone enforcing eye contact. At the very least. Who can seriously think that is healthy? Generally ethics of real ABA techniques are doubtful at best. What one would consider "good ABA" is often not real ABA at all so don't confuse the two.

Parents often do not realize how exhausting and often inhumane ABA is. They just see results. But results don't equal good for your child. If you punish for unwanted behavior often enough and reward for wanted behavior often enough of course you get results. But you also disrespect a child's personal right to deny another person's request. ABA so often trains children to follow orders at total disregard for their own free will.

ABA is highly controversial. And since it is not you who is subjected to the therapy but your child - for your child's sake research a lot before you use ABA. There are countless other therapies out there that are less abusive, controversial, controlling, potentially harmful and traumatizing etc.

The very core of ABA is the same as how you would train an animal (and no you cannot say this in any kinder words) so finding more respectful and loving alternatives is always the best way to go. Anything achieved through ABA can be achieved through less invasive forms of therapy.

I disagree with you on many points. Most of what you say applies to old-style Lovaas DTT ABA. I was scared to start because of well-intentioned but incorrect opinions, like yours, but I'm so glad we did. My child has been doing a naturalistic form of ABA - Early Start Denver model. I observed ALL his sessions in person in the first six months and still partially observe his sessions today via video monitor. They work toward his goals through age-appropriate play. They don't use any of the scary methods you mentioned. It is a child-led, play based therapy, and my kid can't wait for the therapist to come for the next session. I assure you he's not stressed and he is having a great time. Do NOT judge ABA through the prism of autistic adults - their experiences are vastly different than my child's.

Did you seriously just try to discredit and silence my voice? Congratulations you are doing what so many parents of autistic children do.

Anything that calls itself ABA today and is not actually ABA should be named differently. ABA is abuse. What your child benefited so wonderfully from is thus not actually ABA. Don't you dare to tell me my opinion is incorrect. You have no right to take thousands of autistic people's very real life experiences and with no personal experience of yourself stand up and call them liars. Again, what you are doing with your child is not ABA. It calls itself that because it rides on the positive reputation ABA has for parents of autistic children and making a name for itself would be too difficult. That doesn't make it right.

Autistic people are actually the only ones who should be allowed to have an opinion on this matter as they are the only ones subjected to hours and hours of this kind of therapy for years of their lives.

And finally: if you actually care about autistic people and wish to respect them then stay away from ABA. There are tons of therapies that do what todays "so called" ABA does and do not have the same horrible history. The institution that is ABA should not be supported by anyone who knows the history. Alternatives exist.

Well, perhaps you should read my post again.

I did not say autistic adults are liars. What I said is “do NOT judge ABA through the prism of autistic adults - their experiences are vastly different than my child's.” I understand that many autistic adults had bad ABA experiences growing up. ABA has evolved a lot since Lovaas, and methods that were allowed decades ago are considered unethical now and not applied. And, whether you like it or not, the field considers naturalistic ABA therapies as types of ABA, because they are interventions that “improve socially significant behaviors to a meaningful degree”, based on the ABCs of ABA.

You know what it’s like to be autistic, but do you know what it’s like to parent an autistic child? Are you a parent?

I do value your opinion and thoughts regarding autism, especially when it comes to your own experiences, thought process, emotions, etc. But don’t get mad because I point out that some things you said are not necessarily true (I and many parents I know are integral part of the ABA team, observe sessions, get coached, so we don’t “just see results” without knowing what therapists do with our kids) or based on outdated information – you warn people away from ABA although the ABA experience (even DTT) of older autistic people is not the same as the experience of kids today. And you do not speak for all autistic people; some, like Temple Grandin, support ABA and recommend it to parents. I sought the advice of an activist autistic adult, involved in advocacy, who observed my son in his program and said “I wish I had these type of resources as a kid.” Her parents did not have her evaluated as a kid, although she was in the SN school program and struggling; she pursued her diagnosis as an adult, and wishes her parents had sought more professional support for her.

You ended both your posts in cliffhangers about purported therapies better than ABA, but you haven’t named one. Please share with us what those are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Any suggestions for other types of therapy?

Please don't get discouraged by this thread. ABA is not what it once was. Find a therapist you like and it will be fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an autistic adult active in the autistic community I strongly recommend reading up on ABA before you decide to do it at all. Don't talk to adults of autistic children, talk to autistic people about it. Hear how they felt as children subjected to ABA practices. Look out for red flags when screening for good therapists. Too many hours are a horrible strain and stress on children's systems. 40 hours a week for example is a full days work for a very small child. Stay away from anyone using food as positive reinforcement. Stay away from anyone using "quiet hands" techniques that prohibit or even punish for stimming. Stay away from anyone enforcing eye contact. At the very least. Who can seriously think that is healthy? Generally ethics of real ABA techniques are doubtful at best. What one would consider "good ABA" is often not real ABA at all so don't confuse the two.

Parents often do not realize how exhausting and often inhumane ABA is. They just see results. But results don't equal good for your child. If you punish for unwanted behavior often enough and reward for wanted behavior often enough of course you get results. But you also disrespect a child's personal right to deny another person's request. ABA so often trains children to follow orders at total disregard for their own free will.

ABA is highly controversial. And since it is not you who is subjected to the therapy but your child - for your child's sake research a lot before you use ABA. There are countless other therapies out there that are less abusive, controversial, controlling, potentially harmful and traumatizing etc.

The very core of ABA is the same as how you would train an animal (and no you cannot say this in any kinder words) so finding more respectful and loving alternatives is always the best way to go. Anything achieved through ABA can be achieved through less invasive forms of therapy.

I disagree with you on many points. Most of what you say applies to old-style Lovaas DTT ABA. I was scared to start because of well-intentioned but incorrect opinions, like yours, but I'm so glad we did. My child has been doing a naturalistic form of ABA - Early Start Denver model. I observed ALL his sessions in person in the first six months and still partially observe his sessions today via video monitor. They work toward his goals through age-appropriate play. They don't use any of the scary methods you mentioned. It is a child-led, play based therapy, and my kid can't wait for the therapist to come for the next session. I assure you he's not stressed and he is having a great time. Do NOT judge ABA through the prism of autistic adults - their experiences are vastly different than my child's.

Did you seriously just try to discredit and silence my voice? Congratulations you are doing what so many parents of autistic children do.

Anything that calls itself ABA today and is not actually ABA should be named differently. ABA is abuse. What your child benefited so wonderfully from is thus not actually ABA. Don't you dare to tell me my opinion is incorrect. You have no right to take thousands of autistic people's very real life experiences and with no personal experience of yourself stand up and call them liars. Again, what you are doing with your child is not ABA. It calls itself that because it rides on the positive reputation ABA has for parents of autistic children and making a name for itself would be too difficult. That doesn't make it right.

Autistic people are actually the only ones who should be allowed to have an opinion on this matter as they are the only ones subjected to hours and hours of this kind of therapy for years of their lives.

And finally: if you actually care about autistic people and wish to respect them then stay away from ABA. There are tons of therapies that do what todays "so called" ABA does and do not have the same horrible history. The institution that is ABA should not be supported by anyone who knows the history. Alternatives exist.

Well, perhaps you should read my post again.

I did not say autistic adults are liars. What I said is “do NOT judge ABA through the prism of autistic adults - their experiences are vastly different than my child's.” I understand that many autistic adults had bad ABA experiences growing up. ABA has evolved a lot since Lovaas, and methods that were allowed decades ago are considered unethical now and not applied. And, whether you like it or not, the field considers naturalistic ABA therapies as types of ABA, because they are interventions that “improve socially significant behaviors to a meaningful degree”, based on the ABCs of ABA.

You know what it’s like to be autistic, but do you know what it’s like to parent an autistic child? Are you a parent?

I do value your opinion and thoughts regarding autism, especially when it comes to your own experiences, thought process, emotions, etc. But don’t get mad because I point out that some things you said are not necessarily true (I and many parents I know are integral part of the ABA team, observe sessions, get coached, so we don’t “just see results” without knowing what therapists do with our kids) or based on outdated information – you warn people away from ABA although the ABA experience (even DTT) of older autistic people is not the same as the experience of kids today. And you do not speak for all autistic people; some, like Temple Grandin, support ABA and recommend it to parents. I sought the advice of an activist autistic adult, involved in advocacy, who observed my son in his program and said “I wish I had these type of resources as a kid.” Her parents did not have her evaluated as a kid, although she was in the SN school program and struggling; she pursued her diagnosis as an adult, and wishes her parents had sought more professional support for her.

You ended both your posts in cliffhangers about purported therapies better than ABA, but you haven’t named one. Please share with us what those are.

How old is your child? How do you even know how they think and feel about ABA therapy? Your child doesn't even know a life without ABA, is your child even able to compare and judge? Once your child grows up and learn about the bad sides of ABA how do you know what they will think? If you child ever tells you "Mom, ABA is horrible abuse" are you still going to say "Oh but honey, the one YOU went through wasn't."? Why do I even ask? You are a supporter of ABA anyway and have no intent to change your mind no matter what you hear. Which is exactly the reason autistic adults feel silenced into non existence.

The same ABA methods used decades ago are still used today. Every day. Many autistic children suffer because of it. That is a reality. And until no abuse ABA exists anymore ABA should not be supported. Can you really not see the issue? It is in this very discussion. People always use the "But not all ABA is like that" argument so they can keep supporting ABA. And that does lead to uneducated parents subjecting their kids to bad ABA. Because as long as ABA (good or bad) is still accepted as THE therapy for autistic people the bad will NOT go away.
Now if there weren't any alternatives and finding a "good" ABA therapist was the only option for autistic people to get help I wouldn't be arguing. But that is not the case.

The reason I am not suggesting specific therapies is that I am not qualified to do so. I do not know which issues OPs child has. Which therapies would be useful depends entirely on that. To list a few possibilities: social skills training, physical therapy, speech therapy, occupational therapy and I am going to put meeting other autistic people in here as well even though it's not an actual therapy.