too much ABA therapy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am of the mind that the more ABA you can do, the better. Admittedly, we were pretty extreme for our DC -- began ABA at age 2 and did at least 40 hours a week (7 days a week). But it absolutely changed his path. If it's done right, the program will be tailored to his particular needs and goals, so it will be very productive. Best of luck.

Are you aware that adult Autistics speak out strongly against ABA therapy? Yes, these are people who are now verbal, whether written or spoken, and they consistently view ABA as abuse. Go to ASAN and read wth writings of some of the people there. This type of therapy holds hostage all the things your child loves, turning them into rewards to be earned. In many cases, they train children with less compassion and humanity than I train my dog.



Please. Reconsider.

[Anonymous]

Well my view isn't as extreme as PP's but I do wonder exactly what you would be hoping to achieve with behaviorist interventions at the 20 hr/week level, with a kid who can talk and play but has trouble at school. As I understand it, ABA is pretty good at what it's designed for--modifying behavior. So if you have behaviors that absolutely have to be modified (eg, aggression, self-mutilation, etc.) then I'm sure it has its place. But it's not going to change the kid's neurology to make him not autistic anymore, and could easily become cruel if used to try and stamp out all behavioral manifestations of autism (eg, harmless stimming, abnormal eye contact, etc.). Read the new Steve Silberman book Neurotribes. Lovaas's claim that 40 hours a week of ABA could make kids not autistic anymore was clearly a fraud. The thing that really helps these kids the most in the long run is understanding and compassionate teachers. So I think you'd be better off figuring out what is going wrong at school, finding a better school environment, and treating the ADHD he probably also has. And if you need some ABA to address some problematic behaviors, that's ok within reason.

[Anonymous]

ABA was originally designed for children who didn't readily imitate and weren't very socially motivated to please others. It focused heavily on compliance and even used punishment as one of its main enforcers. Today there are more variations of ABA, but you still have to be very careful about who administers it and how they use it. ABA is not a "cure" for autism although it's often sold that way, which guilts parents into using it.

Given your description, I wouldn't focus on ABA at all. I'd focus on creating the right settings (nurturing, small amount of kids) for my child where he thrives. For behaviors, you can do a Functional Behavior Assessment and create Behavior Plan to keep him on track instead of using ABA, which is often referred to as dog training.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thanks for all of the feedback. Sounds like I am not crazy to question the DRs recommendation. What kind of professional would I reach out to for a Functional Behavior Assessment? Would that person consider ABA among other approaches when crafting the Behavior Plan? I love the idea of a professional helping me put ABA in context among other approach options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for all of the feedback. Sounds like I am not crazy to question the DRs recommendation. What kind of professional would I reach out to for a Functional Behavior Assessment? Would that person consider ABA among other approaches when crafting the Behavior Plan? I love the idea of a professional helping me put ABA in context among other approach options.

A psychologist with a strong training in behavioral psychology (Skinner).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

ABA was originally designed for children who didn't readily imitate and weren't very socially motivated to please others. It focused heavily on compliance and even used punishment as one of its main enforcers. Today there are more variations of ABA, but you still have to be very careful about who administers it and how they use it. ABA is not a "cure" for autism although it's often sold that way, which guilts parents into using it.

Given your description, I wouldn't focus on ABA at all. I'd focus on creating the right settings (nurturing, small amount of kids) for my child where he thrives. For behaviors, you can do a Functional Behavior Assessment and create Behavior Plan to keep him on track instead of using ABA, which is often referred to as dog training.

That is a very ignorant, hateful statement.

Behavioral psychology has broad applications beyond animal training, and is incorporated into the most broadly used psychological therapy used in the USA today (CBT).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

ABA was originally designed for children who didn't readily imitate and weren't very socially motivated to please others. It focused heavily on compliance and even used punishment as one of its main enforcers. Today there are more variations of ABA, but you still have to be very careful about who administers it and how they use it. ABA is not a "cure" for autism although it's often sold that way, which guilts parents into using it.

Given your description, I wouldn't focus on ABA at all. I'd focus on creating the right settings (nurturing, small amount of kids) for my child where he thrives. For behaviors, you can do a Functional Behavior Assessment and create Behavior Plan to keep him on track instead of using ABA, which is often referred to as dog training.

That is a very ignorant, hateful statement.

Behavioral psychology has broad applications beyond animal training, and is incorporated into the most broadly used psychological therapy used in the USA today (CBT).

It's neither. I'm quoting parents who watched it being done to their children, and hated themselves for using it.

Not all ABA is this way, but the original sure was, and many people still practice it this way. You have to be very careful with ABA providers.

[Anonymous]

OP take all this advice with a caution as every child, family and treatment plan should be catered to that child. ABA has its good and bad qualities but ultimately it really depends on the provider. I would find another more flexible provider and start with a few hours a week and if it is helpful increase from there, especially if insurance is not covering it.

Autism is not curable - you can help to make a child more higher functioning but if they were cured, they never had autism and had something else/misdiagnosed. Many things can look like autism but those things resolve themselves whereas autism always stays.

We tried it, did not find it helpful for our child's needs and did not continue (I did post above). If my child had true autism I would have continued. We had a nice gentle provider who came and worked with my child. It was too basic for him but there are good providers who are flexible and will cater to what you want/ours did. There are also many that are very strict ABA and very harsh and that does not work well with all kids.

Try it, especially if you can get it covered. If you do not like the provider, you switch. Try a few or talk to them before agreeing. We interviewed a bunch to get the right fit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am of the mind that the more ABA you can do, the better. Admittedly, we were pretty extreme for our DC -- began ABA at age 2 and did at least 40 hours a week (7 days a week). But it absolutely changed his path. If it's done right, the program will be tailored to his particular needs and goals, so it will be very productive. Best of luck.

Are you aware that adult Autistics speak out strongly against ABA therapy? Yes, these are people who are now verbal, whether written or spoken, and they consistently view ABA as abuse. Go to ASAN and read wth writings of some of the people there. This type of therapy holds hostage all the things your child loves, turning them into rewards to be earned. In many cases, they train children with less compassion and humanity than I train my dog.



Please. Reconsider.

A lot of parenting approaches could be considered training.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am of the mind that the more ABA you can do, the better. Admittedly, we were pretty extreme for our DC -- began ABA at age 2 and did at least 40 hours a week (7 days a week). But it absolutely changed his path. If it's done right, the program will be tailored to his particular needs and goals, so it will be very productive. Best of luck.

Are you aware that adult Autistics speak out strongly against ABA therapy? Yes, these are people who are now verbal, whether written or spoken, and they consistently view ABA as abuse. Go to ASAN and read wth writings of some of the people there. This type of therapy holds hostage all the things your child loves, turning them into rewards to be earned. In many cases, they train children with less compassion and humanity than I train my dog.



Please. Reconsider.

A lot of parenting approaches could be considered training.

But ABA focuses on compliance. It can teach discrete skills, but does little to help them generalize.

[Anonymous]

As an autistic adult active in the autistic community I strongly recommend reading up on ABA before you decide to do it at all. Don't talk to adults of autistic children, talk to autistic people about it. Hear how they felt as children subjected to ABA practices. Look out for red flags when screening for good therapists. Too many hours are a horrible strain and stress on children's systems. 40 hours a week for example is a full days work for a very small child. Stay away from anyone using food as positive reinforcement. Stay away from anyone using "quiet hands" techniques that prohibit or even punish for stimming. Stay away from anyone enforcing eye contact. At the very least. Who can seriously think that is healthy? Generally ethics of real ABA techniques are doubtful at best. What one would consider "good ABA" is often not real ABA at all so don't confuse the two.

Parents often do not realize how exhausting and often inhumane ABA is. They just see results. But results don't equal good for your child. If you punish for unwanted behavior often enough and reward for wanted behavior often enough of course you get results. But you also disrespect a child's personal right to deny another person's request. ABA so often trains children to follow orders at total disregard for their own free will.

ABA is highly controversial. And since it is not you who is subjected to the therapy but your child - for your child's sake research a lot before you use ABA. There are countless other therapies out there that are less abusive, controversial, controlling, potentially harmful and traumatizing etc.

The very core of ABA is the same as how you would train an animal (and no you cannot say this in any kinder words) so finding more respectful and loving alternatives is always the best way to go. Anything achieved through ABA can be achieved through less invasive forms of therapy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for all of the feedback. Sounds like I am not crazy to question the DRs recommendation. What kind of professional would I reach out to for a Functional Behavior Assessment? Would that person consider ABA among other approaches when crafting the Behavior Plan? I love the idea of a professional helping me put ABA in context among other approach options.

OP, it's not crazy to question recommendations. It can be a good thing if a doctor recommends a service b/c it sometimes can help you get insurance coverage or school accommodations down the road.

I wouldn't worry about "filling a certain number of hours" rather focus on the goals for your child, e.g., communication, potty training, self-care, etc. Then you do what you can. (Agree with PP to "ramp up slowly.")

I'm a parent not a health professional, but I've attended ABA trainings and behavioral therapy trainings--the two are very similar. (Read the Kazdin Method if you want a behavioral approach overview.) I think the early days of ABA is vastly different than how it is implemented today. Also, approaches of anything related to behavior can vary widely depending on the provider.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As an autistic adult active in the autistic community I strongly recommend reading up on ABA before you decide to do it at all. Don't talk to adults of autistic children, talk to autistic people about it. Hear how they felt as children subjected to ABA practices. Look out for red flags when screening for good therapists. Too many hours are a horrible strain and stress on children's systems. 40 hours a week for example is a full days work for a very small child. Stay away from anyone using food as positive reinforcement. Stay away from anyone using "quiet hands" techniques that prohibit or even punish for stimming. Stay away from anyone enforcing eye contact. At the very least. Who can seriously think that is healthy? Generally ethics of real ABA techniques are doubtful at best. What one would consider "good ABA" is often not real ABA at all so don't confuse the two.

Parents often do not realize how exhausting and often inhumane ABA is. They just see results. But results don't equal good for your child. If you punish for unwanted behavior often enough and reward for wanted behavior often enough of course you get results. But you also disrespect a child's personal right to deny another person's request. ABA so often trains children to follow orders at total disregard for their own free will.

ABA is highly controversial. And since it is not you who is subjected to the therapy but your child - for your child's sake research a lot before you use ABA. There are countless other therapies out there that are less abusive, controversial, controlling, potentially harmful and traumatizing etc.

The very core of ABA is the same as how you would train an animal (and no you cannot say this in any kinder words) so finding more respectful and loving alternatives is always the best way to go. Anything achieved through ABA can be achieved through less invasive forms of therapy.

Thank you for posting! We don't hear from actual autistic adults nearly often enough around here.

I'd just like to add to those cautions one about anyone who tries to use ABA to extinguish echolalia or other forms of supposedly "non-functional" speech. I've read accounts from autistic adults who say that echolalia was how they found their way to speech--not a detour, but the path. And of course many of us read that amazing story last year about the kid who learned to speak through imitating characters in his favorite Disney movies. Even apart from the potentially cruel methodologies, I worry that ABA is too often directed at trying to modify things that cannot or should not be modified. Back when ABA was first developed they still thought autism was a learned behavior (caused by "refrigerator mothers"!) and so deploying behaviorist methods against it seemed like a promising avenue for treatment. It didn't work, unsurprisingly--because autism is a neurological difference, not a set of behaviors. And there are reasons, rooted in that neurology, for things like stimming, eye contact differences, different ways of communicating, etc.. Trying to stamp them out may well be depriving your kid of the best adaptations he or she has come up with. More typical-seeming may not, in other words, be more functional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an autistic adult active in the autistic community I strongly recommend reading up on ABA before you decide to do it at all. Don't talk to adults of autistic children, talk to autistic people about it. Hear how they felt as children subjected to ABA practices. Look out for red flags when screening for good therapists. Too many hours are a horrible strain and stress on children's systems. 40 hours a week for example is a full days work for a very small child. Stay away from anyone using food as positive reinforcement. Stay away from anyone using "quiet hands" techniques that prohibit or even punish for stimming. Stay away from anyone enforcing eye contact. At the very least. Who can seriously think that is healthy? Generally ethics of real ABA techniques are doubtful at best. What one would consider "good ABA" is often not real ABA at all so don't confuse the two.

Parents often do not realize how exhausting and often inhumane ABA is. They just see results. But results don't equal good for your child. If you punish for unwanted behavior often enough and reward for wanted behavior often enough of course you get results. But you also disrespect a child's personal right to deny another person's request. ABA so often trains children to follow orders at total disregard for their own free will.

ABA is highly controversial. And since it is not you who is subjected to the therapy but your child - for your child's sake research a lot before you use ABA. There are countless other therapies out there that are less abusive, controversial, controlling, potentially harmful and traumatizing etc.

The very core of ABA is the same as how you would train an animal (and no you cannot say this in any kinder words) so finding more respectful and loving alternatives is always the best way to go. Anything achieved through ABA can be achieved through less invasive forms of therapy.

Thank you for posting! We don't hear from actual autistic adults nearly often enough around here.

I'd just like to add to those cautions one about anyone who tries to use ABA to extinguish echolalia or other forms of supposedly "non-functional" speech. I've read accounts from autistic adults who say that echolalia was how they found their way to speech--not a detour, but the path. And of course many of us read that amazing story last year about the kid who learned to speak through imitating characters in his favorite Disney movies. Even apart from the potentially cruel methodologies, I worry that ABA is too often directed at trying to modify things that cannot or should not be modified. Back when ABA was first developed they still thought autism was a learned behavior (caused by "refrigerator mothers"!) and so deploying behaviorist methods against it seemed like a promising avenue for treatment. It didn't work, unsurprisingly--because autism is a neurological difference, not a set of behaviors. And there are reasons, rooted in that neurology, for things like stimming, eye contact differences, different ways of communicating, etc.. Trying to stamp them out may well be depriving your kid of the best adaptations he or she has come up with. More typical-seeming may not, in other words, be more functional.

Good points! Often too "experts" like school personnel or even uninformed SLPs well tell you your child has echolalia (which is meaningless parroting) when the child is actually using scripting, which can be a precursor to a language burst.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am of the mind that the more ABA you can do, the better. Admittedly, we were pretty extreme for our DC -- began ABA at age 2 and did at least 40 hours a week (7 days a week). But it absolutely changed his path. If it's done right, the program will be tailored to his particular needs and goals, so it will be very productive. Best of luck.

Are you aware that adult Autistics speak out strongly against ABA therapy? Yes, these are people who are now verbal, whether written or spoken, and they consistently view ABA as abuse. Go to ASAN and read wth writings of some of the people there. This type of therapy holds hostage all the things your child loves, turning them into rewards to be earned. In many cases, they train children with less compassion and humanity than I train my dog.



Please. Reconsider.

A lot of parenting approaches could be considered training.

But ABA focuses on compliance. It can teach discrete skills, but does little to help them generalize.

Again with the ignorance.

Most autistics can't generalize social skills or language skills or self-care skills. Their thinking is too rigid. If they could generalize, they wouldn't have autism.

You are asking ABA or other therapy to teach them something that they will never be able to do.