Whatever happened to textbooks?

[Anonymous]

You do know the economic reason we have copyright, don't you? If all of the content is free and posted online, then that's it. No one will make new updated content, because they won't have the time to do that for free.

You can call the price of textbooks (paper and subscription online) profiteering, and say it's too high. But free is too low.

Khan Academy is free. Lots of stuff is out there for free. People do have the time to do it and they want to do it. Free is not too low. There is some great stuff that is free because there are great people who enjoy doing this stuff. Open source is where we should be going.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You do know the economic reason we have copyright, don't you? If all of the content is free and posted online, then that's it. No one will make new updated content, because they won't have the time to do that for free.

You can call the price of textbooks (paper and subscription online) profiteering, and say it's too high. But free is too low.

Khan Academy is free. Lots of stuff is out there for free. People do have the time to do it and they want to do it. Free is not too low. There is some great stuff that is free because there are great people who enjoy doing this stuff. Open source is where we should be going.

But that doesn't mean that KA or other resources are teaching the method that my kid is getting at school. For a lot of this stuff, I know perfectly well how to teach a solution to the issue (eg carrying and borrowing) but am at sea when I'm expected to reinforce something that's being taught in this specific classroom.

[Anonymous]

But that doesn't mean that KA or other resources are teaching the method that my kid is getting at school. For a lot of this stuff, I know perfectly well how to teach a solution to the issue (eg carrying and borrowing) but am at sea when I'm expected to reinforce something that's being taught in this specific classroom.

Yeah, I know. When I was growing up it was called "new math" and it was the launch of Sputnik by the Russians that got everyone panicked (thus the "new math"). The irony is that the engineers who got us to the moon were educated with the "old math" (no doubt the same math that the Russian engineers learned). My parents used to sigh and say, "new math"!! I imagine that one day your child will be telling this story and sighing and saying "Common Core math"!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Yeah, I know. When I was growing up it was called "new math" and it was the launch of Sputnik by the Russians that got everyone panicked (thus the "new math"). The irony is that the engineers who got us to the moon were educated with the "old math" (no doubt the same math that the Russian engineers learned). My parents used to sigh and say, "new math"!! I imagine that one day your child will be telling this story and sighing and saying "Common Core math"!

That is not irony. "Old math" works for some people. But there are a whole lot of people it doesn't work for. It is possible to teach math better, and we should.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/27/magazine/why-do-americans-stink-at-math.html?_r=0

[Anonymous]

OP I feel the same way! I think the protest has to come from the parents not teachers. FCPS has shown that teacher input is not valued enough (half day Mondays/northrum Grummon assessments)

I like that one teacher on here puts all notes on blackboard. Wish more would do that.

Heck I wish they could videotape some of these classes without showing students. it can be used to help parents, but also to help teachers. You could show videos of the star teachers at training so other teachers learn new ways to teach.

One of the teachers my daughter had for math would confuse herself teaching. My daughter reported this to me, but I could tell based on the work that came home and the few times I called or emailed the teacher for clarification on math. I would like to see what is taught, to get a sense of what works for my child and what doesn't, but also so I can see when the teacher doesn't understand at all. I don't even blame the teacher for not having a good grasp. Some of the new ways of teaching math are confusing and not every teacher is strong in that area.

[Anonymous]

Sorry Northrup Grummon not Northrum. Need more coffee.

[Anonymous]

OP I feel the same way! I think the protest has to come from the parents not teachers. FCPS has shown that teacher input is not valued enough (half day Mondays/northrum Grummon assessments)

+100 They dismiss the teachers.

Northrup Grumman assessments are better known as eCart. Humongous waste of money. Sleeping with Northrup Grumman!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: OP I feel the same way! I think the protest has to come from the parents not teachers. FCPS has shown that teacher input is not valued enough (half day Mondays/northrum Grummon assessments)

I like that one teacher on here puts all notes on blackboard. Wish more would do that.

Heck I wish they could videotape some of these classes without showing students. it can be used to help parents, but also to help teachers. You could show videos of the star teachers at training so other teachers learn new ways to teach.

One of the teachers my daughter had for math would confuse herself teaching. My daughter reported this to me, but I could tell based on the work that came home and the few times I called or emailed the teacher for clarification on math. I would like to see what is taught, to get a sense of what works for my child and what doesn't, but also so I can see when the teacher doesn't understand at all. I don't even blame the teacher for not having a good grasp. Some of the new ways of teaching math are confusing and not every teacher is strong in that area.

What is wrong with ecart? They are given every quarter and have been helpful to see where my child's weaknesses are. In fact, it's the only reading assignment that takes place during school we see all year. Other school districts do videotape their lessons and then kids can go back and relearn information if they need to. I think it's a great idea, but I can see how teachers might not like to be videotaped. Aren't some of the high school classes already videotaped since you can take them online?

[Anonymous]

What is wrong with ecart? They are given every quarter and have been helpful to see where my child's weaknesses are. In fact, it's the only reading assignment that takes place during school we see all year.

What do you mean that it's the "only reading assessment"?

How do they help you see where your child's weaknesses are? Do you get a copy of the test?

I have found eCart to be low quality and a waste of time. It's another source of "over testing".

Please explain how it has been helpful to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

What is wrong with ecart? They are given every quarter and have been helpful to see where my child's weaknesses are. In fact, it's the only reading assignment that takes place during school we see all year.

What do you mean that it's the "only reading assessment"?

How do they help you see where your child's weaknesses are? Do you get a copy of the test?

I have found eCart to be low quality and a waste of time. It's another source of "over testing".

Please explain how it has been helpful to you.

Yes, the teacher can go over a copy of the test especially if your child is struggling. There are also SOL tests but those are given at the end of the year. The DRA is only given to the children in the younger grades. These are the only tests in reading we've seen. We like the ecart test because it's a quarterly test. We also do not get any feedback on the books read and discussed in class nor do we see any writing that comes out of reading those books in class. There is also little homework given for language arts work. The only reading homework we see are reading logs and then a couple of sporadic sheets throughout the year as well. Does this help?

[Anonymous]

Yes, the teacher can go over a copy of the test especially if your child is struggling. There are also SOL tests but those are given at the end of the year. The DRA is only given to the children in the younger grades. These are the only tests in reading we've seen. We like the ecart test because it's a quarterly test. We also do not get any feedback on the books read and discussed in class nor do we see any writing that comes out of reading those books in class. There is also little homework given for language arts work. The only reading homework we see are reading logs and then a couple of sporadic sheets throughout the year as well. Does this help?

What grade is your child in?

Don't they have a reading/writing journal that they bring home? Don't they have to read and then write in the journal? That would be much more helpful IMO.

You should be getting more feedback than eCart! eCart is not really descriptive at all. It can't show anything about your child's learning style. The journal can show more. You need to talk to the teacher and you should be seeing your child's regular work. This should either come home or be available to you in a conference. It sounds like your child is struggling. What about the report card? Does it come with comments? The best way to understand your child's needs is not through eCart! eCart is just a score and is not a very good diagnostic at all.

Talk to the teacher. Don't rely on eCart testing for very good information. It is not the quality you need to have to help your child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, the teacher can go over a copy of the test especially if your child is struggling. There are also SOL tests but those are given at the end of the year. The DRA is only given to the children in the younger grades. These are the only tests in reading we've seen. We like the ecart test because it's a quarterly test. We also do not get any feedback on the books read and discussed in class nor do we see any writing that comes out of reading those books in class. There is also little homework given for language arts work. The only reading homework we see are reading logs and then a couple of sporadic sheets throughout the year as well. Does this help?

What grade is your child in?

Don't they have a reading/writing journal that they bring home? Don't they have to read and then write in the journal? That would be much more helpful IMO.

You should be getting more feedback than eCart! eCart is not really descriptive at all. It can't show anything about your child's learning style. The journal can show more. You need to talk to the teacher and you should be seeing your child's regular work. This should either come home or be available to you in a conference. It sounds like your child is struggling. What about the report card? Does it come with comments? The best way to understand your child's needs is not through eCart! eCart is just a score and is not a very good diagnostic at all.

Talk to the teacher. Don't rely on eCart testing for very good information. It is not the quality you need to have to help your child.

No, they do not have a reading/writing journal. Well they have a writing journal, but it is never checked and only comes home if I ask my child to bring it home. The reading program in FCPS is very odd. Every child reads a different book and then they discuss all the different books at the same time with the teacher or they each talk a bit about their own book. There is never anything that comes home after the child reads and discusses. It makes no sense to me. The writing program is also very haphazard although every so often a story comes home during the year. We don't see the progress though from one activity to the next like we do with math. This same experience has happened over five teachers.

[Anonymous]

No, they do not have a reading/writing journal. Well they have a writing journal, but it is never checked and only comes home if I ask my child to bring it home. The reading program in FCPS is very odd. Every child reads a different book and then they discuss all the different books at the same time with the teacher or they each talk a bit about their own book. There is never anything that comes home after the child reads and discusses. It makes no sense to me. The writing program is also very haphazard although every so often a story comes home during the year. We don't see the progress though from one activity to the next like we do with math. This same experience has happened over five teachers.

Wow. I am surprised that FCPS does not have a better model considering all the people at Gatehouse and Fairfax Ridge involved in curriculum!


My son has been out of FCPS for a while, but he had to read at home and write something at home once a week. He got feedback in the journal that we could see each week. He did get to choose his own book for that.

I do agree that the writing program in FCPS needs to be better. There was just not enough writing in general (both creative and expository). It is lacking for sure.

That said, I don't think multiple choice eCart tests are going to help with writing. The only way to improve writing is to . . . write! And get feedback on your writing. eCart is very limited in its diagnostic properties. It can tell you that your child got things wrong, but it can only tell you about specific items tested and lots of things are not covered on those tests. It also can't tell you WHY your child got those things wrong or whether the items missed are indicative of more categorical weakness or not. It cannot see or describe what the teacher can see by working with your child.

Of course, with many students in the classroom, it is hard for the teacher to pay enough attention to each child. This is the big problem and computerized instruction and eCarts can only go so far in addressing that problem. The teacher is and will always be the best observer of student needs.

Parents need to rally to stop increases in student teacher ratios so that more attention can be given to each student and their parents.

[Anonymous]

One other thing . . . eCart cannot hear your child read. One of the best "assessments" I do is to get the child to read to me. I can "hear" what the child is missing in terms of pronunciation and I can correct the child and ask right then whether the child understands certain words (a vocabulary check). Reading comprehension involves more than just sounding out words on a page. If the student does not have a working vocabulary base that is up to level, the student will have comprehension issues that are tied to background vocabulary knowledge and not specifically to the act of reading. There are other issues that can come up as well . . . like mixing up letters or just plain guessing at words . . . that can relate to LD. eCart cannot pick up on those things. Why a student is failing is super important. eCart cannot show you that and, even worse, multiple tests where the child fails is not a productive use of time. The child just becomes frustrated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

No, they do not have a reading/writing journal. Well they have a writing journal, but it is never checked and only comes home if I ask my child to bring it home. The reading program in FCPS is very odd. Every child reads a different book and then they discuss all the different books at the same time with the teacher or they each talk a bit about their own book. There is never anything that comes home after the child reads and discusses. It makes no sense to me. The writing program is also very haphazard although every so often a story comes home during the year. We don't see the progress though from one activity to the next like we do with math. This same experience has happened over five teachers.

Wow. I am surprised that FCPS does not have a better model considering all the people at Gatehouse and Fairfax Ridge involved in curriculum!


My son has been out of FCPS for a while, but he had to read at home and write something at home once a week. He got feedback in the journal that we could see each week. He did get to choose his own book for that.

I do agree that the writing program in FCPS needs to be better. There was just not enough writing in general (both creative and expository). It is lacking for sure.

That said, I don't think multiple choice eCart tests are going to help with writing. The only way to improve writing is to . . . write! And get feedback on your writing. eCart is very limited in its diagnostic properties. It can tell you that your child got things wrong, but it can only tell you about specific items tested and lots of things are not covered on those tests. It also can't tell you WHY your child got those things wrong or whether the items missed are indicative of more categorical weakness or not. It cannot see or describe what the teacher can see by working with your child.

Of course, with many students in the classroom, it is hard for the teacher to pay enough attention to each child. This is the big problem and computerized instruction and eCarts can only go so far in addressing that problem. The teacher is and will always be the best observer of student needs.

Parents need to rally to stop increases in student teacher ratios so that more attention can be given to each student and their parents.

Yeah, I don't know what they're doing over at Gatehouse. I think actually the material is available, but the teachers just don't have the time to implement the curriculum. Too many specials and too many children in a classroom. I never said Ecart was the answer, but I have no problems with my child taking 2 ecart tests a year. I think they are one piece of understanding math and reading progress. That's all.