Estate Problems

[Anonymous]

I would say sell the house and split anything leftover equally. The money that was spent paying the mortgage is not relevant, consider it rent. They'd have to pay some rent to live anywhere, why do they get to live rent free in that house?

If they had not been able to pay originally, the house would have been sold or rented at that point, what's the difference?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, reading the OP and some of these comments, I can understand why people fall out with siblings over stuff like this. My parents were specific in their will to avoid this sort of thing. Folks trying to itemize and place value on every littel thing. Personally, I would credit sibling the amount that he paid towards the mortgage - because he did create quity by paying it every month. After he was reimbursed, we would divide it equally. I know you are an IL and according to DCUM, you should not even be involved. But I think it is NOT good for the relationship for folks to be nitpicking what the sibling did or did not do. If he lived with them (even if it was rent free), he was doing stuff day to day just because he was there. Don't belittle that.

+100. The sibling should be reimbursed from the proceeds for the amount of the mortgage payments. The arrangement for the sibling living with parents is off limits - it was between parents and that sibling, and that time is over.

+200. This solution is fair and minimizes the itemizing and bean counting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, reading the OP and some of these comments, I can understand why people fall out with siblings over stuff like this. My parents were specific in their will to avoid this sort of thing. Folks trying to itemize and place value on every littel thing. Personally, I would credit sibling the amount that he paid towards the mortgage - because he did create quity by paying it every month. After he was reimbursed, we would divide it equally. I know you are an IL and according to DCUM, you should not even be involved. But I think it is NOT good for the relationship for folks to be nitpicking what the sibling did or did not do. If he lived with them (even if it was rent free), he was doing stuff day to day just because he was there. Don't belittle that.

+100. The sibling should be reimbursed from the proceeds for the amount of the mortgage payments. The arrangement for the sibling living with parents is off limits - it was between parents and that sibling, and that time is over.

+200. This solution is fair and minimizes the itemizing and bean counting.

But the parents paid the mortgage while living. If the sib lived there and paid the mortgage and taxes etc while the house was being prepared for market and until sold then he should be reimbursed. 6 months at the most?

[Anonymous]

Just sell the house, pay off the mortgage and split the remaining equity proceeds equally.

Don't horse around with sibling's free previous living arrangement or whatever he finally started (and stopped) paying thereafter. Or with previous home maintenance or co-living support. All irrelevant. Sell the house and split it. Your sib will be fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would say sell the house and split anything leftover equally. The money that was spent paying the mortgage is not relevant, consider it rent. They'd have to pay some rent to live anywhere, why do they get to live rent free in that house?

If they had not been able to pay originally, the house would have been sold or rented at that point, what's the difference?

This is the correct answer, OP.

[Anonymous]

Wow, people are really, really cold. I took care of my dad for 2 years before his death. I lived "rent free" in the house I grew up in. It was traumatic and difficult and really, really hard work. I couldn't have friends over or have a sex life. But it was my choice and I didn't expect to be compensated for it.

I remember my asshole brother coming to visit once and when I said something like, "Elder care is exhausting" he was like, "Looks to me like you just sit around watching Wheel of Fortune with dad. What's so exhausting about that?" I never wanted to speak to him again. I spent at least 30 hours a week calling doctors, driving him to appointments, making sense of his Medicare and health insurance paperwork, paying bills, attending every hospitalization and doctor visit because errors happened SO often, shopping for food, clothing, durable medical equipment, researching his various problems and possible treatments, preparing meals, cleaning, doing laundry, and simply keeping him company.

I'm really lucky that he died destitute because I never would have spoken to my brothers if they tried to compensate me at minimum wage for those hours or if they tried to claim that somehow I owed them $$ because I got to live there rent free. (In my case, I kept my own condo with my own mortgage in another state because none of us expected my father to live so long, but it woudl have been even worse if I gave up my own place. Living there rent free wasn't a perk. It was necessary, and it was a HUGE sacrifice on my part.)

That said, it's clear that your DH's parents could have changed their will but didn't. So I think the only fair thing would be to compensate your BIL for the increase in EQUITY in the home since he'd been making mortgage payments (look at the amortization schedule to see how much principal he paid during those years) and give that to him directly from the proceeds. Reimburse him for any improvements as well if he has records of that. Then split the rest equally. Do NOT nickel and dime him for care that you think he gave. You clearly have no clue how much work it can be, even with a mobile parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow, people are really, really cold. I took care of my dad for 2 years before his death. I lived "rent free" in the house I grew up in. It was traumatic and difficult and really, really hard work. I couldn't have friends over or have a sex life. But it was my choice and I didn't expect to be compensated for it.

I remember my asshole brother coming to visit once and when I said something like, "Elder care is exhausting" he was like, "Looks to me like you just sit around watching Wheel of Fortune with dad. What's so exhausting about that?" I never wanted to speak to him again. I spent at least 30 hours a week calling doctors, driving him to appointments, making sense of his Medicare and health insurance paperwork, paying bills, attending every hospitalization and doctor visit because errors happened SO often, shopping for food, clothing, durable medical equipment, researching his various problems and possible treatments, preparing meals, cleaning, doing laundry, and simply keeping him company.

I'm really lucky that he died destitute because I never would have spoken to my brothers if they tried to compensate me at minimum wage for those hours or if they tried to claim that somehow I owed them $$ because I got to live there rent free. (In my case, I kept my own condo with my own mortgage in another state because none of us expected my father to live so long, but it woudl have been even worse if I gave up my own place. Living there rent free wasn't a perk. It was necessary, and it was a HUGE sacrifice on my part.)

That said, it's clear that your DH's parents could have changed their will but didn't. So I think the only fair thing would be to compensate your BIL for the increase in EQUITY in the home since he'd been making mortgage payments (look at the amortization schedule to see how much principal he paid during those years) and give that to him directly from the proceeds. Reimburse him for any improvements as well if he has records of that. Then split the rest equally. Do NOT nickel and dime him for care that you think he gave. You clearly have no clue how much work it can be, even with a mobile parent.

Thank you for posting this. I can not imagine nickel and diming a sibling who helped care for an aging parent. If you weren't there every day, you have NO IDEA what it's like.

Shame on the rest of you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, people are really, really cold. I took care of my dad for 2 years before his death. I lived "rent free" in the house I grew up in. It was traumatic and difficult and really, really hard work. I couldn't have friends over or have a sex life. But it was my choice and I didn't expect to be compensated for it.

I remember my asshole brother coming to visit once and when I said something like, "Elder care is exhausting" he was like, "Looks to me like you just sit around watching Wheel of Fortune with dad. What's so exhausting about that?" I never wanted to speak to him again. I spent at least 30 hours a week calling doctors, driving him to appointments, making sense of his Medicare and health insurance paperwork, paying bills, attending every hospitalization and doctor visit because errors happened SO often, shopping for food, clothing, durable medical equipment, researching his various problems and possible treatments, preparing meals, cleaning, doing laundry, and simply keeping him company.

I'm really lucky that he died destitute because I never would have spoken to my brothers if they tried to compensate me at minimum wage for those hours or if they tried to claim that somehow I owed them $$ because I got to live there rent free. (In my case, I kept my own condo with my own mortgage in another state because none of us expected my father to live so long, but it woudl have been even worse if I gave up my own place. Living there rent free wasn't a perk. It was necessary, and it was a HUGE sacrifice on my part.)

That said, it's clear that your DH's parents could have changed their will but didn't. So I think the only fair thing would be to compensate your BIL for the increase in EQUITY in the home since he'd been making mortgage payments (look at the amortization schedule to see how much principal he paid during those years) and give that to him directly from the proceeds. Reimburse him for any improvements as well if he has records of that. Then split the rest equally. Do NOT nickel and dime him for care that you think he gave. You clearly have no clue how much work it can be, even with a mobile parent.

Thank you for posting this. I can not imagine nickel and diming a sibling who helped care for an aging parent. If you weren't there every day, you have NO IDEA what it's like.

Shame on the rest of you.

People get really weird about money. I felt the sibs should sell the house and split the proceeds. OP's sib paid the mortgage after the parent died. That sib expects the entire house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DH's parents died a few years ago. One of his siblings took up residence in the family home during the last years of their life and afterwords as a pseudo caregiver but also lived for free most of the time. After their death DH and the other kids let the sibling continue to live at the residence but they all remained equal owners on paper. The sibling just assumed the mortgage because they could afford it at the time. Fast forward and sibling can no longer afford it (neither can anyone else) and wants to sell and is trying to get the other beneficiaries to sign over the property and forfeit their share. Everyone has different priorities and financial situations. WWYD?

The answer is in your question. He is trying to get the others to.forfeit their.shares. Theirs, not his. After the.parents died he.paid the mortgage but got.to.live.in the house so that is a wash. Sell the house and split the.proceeds exactly.like it says in the will. If he thought he had a valid.monetary claim for.the.value of.care services he provided he could have made that claim after they died. Now.its several years later and too late. The other sibs owe him nothing more than an equal share. He isn't.entitled legally.r.morally to.anything more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, people are really, really cold. I took care of my dad for 2 years before his death. I lived "rent free" in the house I grew up in. It was traumatic and difficult and really, really hard work. I couldn't have friends over or have a sex life. But it was my choice and I didn't expect to be compensated for it.

I remember my asshole brother coming to visit once and when I said something like, "Elder care is exhausting" he was like, "Looks to me like you just sit around watching Wheel of Fortune with dad. What's so exhausting about that?" I never wanted to speak to him again. I spent at least 30 hours a week calling doctors, driving him to appointments, making sense of his Medicare and health insurance paperwork, paying bills, attending every hospitalization and doctor visit because errors happened SO often, shopping for food, clothing, durable medical equipment, researching his various problems and possible treatments, preparing meals, cleaning, doing laundry, and simply keeping him company.

I'm really lucky that he died destitute because I never would have spoken to my brothers if they tried to compensate me at minimum wage for those hours or if they tried to claim that somehow I owed them $$ because I got to live there rent free. (In my case, I kept my own condo with my own mortgage in another state because none of us expected my father to live so long, but it woudl have been even worse if I gave up my own place. Living there rent free wasn't a perk. It was necessary, and it was a HUGE sacrifice on my part.)

That said, it's clear that your DH's parents could have changed their will but didn't. So I think the only fair thing would be to compensate your BIL for the increase in EQUITY in the home since he'd been making mortgage payments (look at the amortization schedule to see how much principal he paid during those years) and give that to him directly from the proceeds. Reimburse him for any improvements as well if he has records of that. Then split the rest equally. Do NOT nickel and dime him for care that you think he gave. You clearly have no clue how much work it can be, even with a mobile parent.

Thank you for posting this. I can not imagine nickel and diming a sibling who helped care for an aging parent. If you weren't there every day, you have NO IDEA what it's like.

Shame on the rest of you.

The adult sib wasn't doing any care taking, the parents and then parent were healthy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, reading the OP and some of these comments, I can understand why people fall out with siblings over stuff like this. My parents were specific in their will to avoid this sort of thing. Folks trying to itemize and place value on every littel thing. Personally, I would credit sibling the amount that he paid towards the mortgage - because he did create quity by paying it every month. After he was reimbursed, we would divide it equally. I know you are an IL and according to DCUM, you should not even be involved. But I think it is NOT good for the relationship for folks to be nitpicking what the sibling did or did not do. If he lived with them (even if it was rent free), he was doing stuff day to day just because he was there. Don't belittle that.

+100. The sibling should be reimbursed from the proceeds for the amount of the mortgage payments. The arrangement for the sibling living with parents is off limits - it was between parents and that sibling, and that time is over.

Yes but the sibling also benefited from a place to live with those mortgage payments. If you are going to reimburse for those, sibling should also have to pay back rent for living there while no one else got the benefit of free lodging

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, people are really, really cold. I took care of my dad for 2 years before his death. I lived "rent free" in the house I grew up in. It was traumatic and difficult and really, really hard work. I couldn't have friends over or have a sex life. But it was my choice and I didn't expect to be compensated for it.

I remember my asshole brother coming to visit once and when I said something like, "Elder care is exhausting" he was like, "Looks to me like you just sit around watching Wheel of Fortune with dad. What's so exhausting about that?" I never wanted to speak to him again. I spent at least 30 hours a week calling doctors, driving him to appointments, making sense of his Medicare and health insurance paperwork, paying bills, attending every hospitalization and doctor visit because errors happened SO often, shopping for food, clothing, durable medical equipment, researching his various problems and possible treatments, preparing meals, cleaning, doing laundry, and simply keeping him company.

I'm really lucky that he died destitute because I never would have spoken to my brothers if they tried to compensate me at minimum wage for those hours or if they tried to claim that somehow I owed them $$ because I got to live there rent free. (In my case, I kept my own condo with my own mortgage in another state because none of us expected my father to live so long, but it woudl have been even worse if I gave up my own place. Living there rent free wasn't a perk. It was necessary, and it was a HUGE sacrifice on my part.)

That said, it's clear that your DH's parents could have changed their will but didn't. So I think the only fair thing would be to compensate your BIL for the increase in EQUITY in the home since he'd been making mortgage payments (look at the amortization schedule to see how much principal he paid during those years) and give that to him directly from the proceeds. Reimburse him for any improvements as well if he has records of that. Then split the rest equally. Do NOT nickel and dime him for care that you think he gave. You clearly have no clue how much work it can be, even with a mobile parent.

Thank you for posting this. I can not imagine nickel and diming a sibling who helped care for an aging parent. If you weren't there every day, you have NO IDEA what it's like.

Shame on the rest of you.

The adult sib wasn't doing any care taking, the parents and then parent were healthy.

You can tell who in this thread has never had to deal with aging parents. Even if the parents are healthy, they slow down eventually and start needing more help. They may not have needed major medical assistance, but the sibling living in the house probably saved the other siblings countless hours heading over to the parents' house to do things like change a lightbulb they can't safety reach anymore, fix the tv remote, and a million other things that don't even warrant a mention when you're talking with your non-caregiving siblings, but that someone needs to help the parents with.

[Anonymous]

PP you are missing the point. The other sibs have no obligation to give him their shares of the house. It's that simple. They should not be shqned into doing so or blackmailed. Either the son took care of the parents out of love-- in which case nothing more is owed.to him-- or he did it.expecting compensation. If he had a compensation claim, he shoukd have made it years ago against the estate.of the second parent who died. He chose not to do so--most likely because he realized he really didn't do enough to.warrant.compensation beyond the free rent and whatever side.money he was probably getting from the parents were alive.

[Anonymous]

Split it equally.

Some people provide true, draining care 24h/day. Some live rent free and hang out with on oldster. Not relevant to this, though in this case it appears to be the latter. Compensation for that should have been determined earlier if that was an issue.

-from a public health nurse who worked in home care and saw all levels of "care" people provided.

[Anonymous]

I wonder how many posters would give up their jobs and homes for the "benefit" of living rent free with elderly parents. OP, don't be an asshole. The sibling should get more because the other siblings were not fair or equal about the split of duties.
Some of the posters here remind me of my family, which is not a compliment....