Help: dog snapped at DS' face

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thank your for all your replies. They are definitely not what I wanted to hear but that's why I posted here, to get the tough love I knew I needed. I'm calling the rescue right now. I can't believe how much i've fallen in love with this dog over just two months. But I can't have my kids be even 1% at risk from this dog. For those who commented, just wanted to say that G has never shown any dislike of being touched on her face, and we have been very diligent about teaching our kids how to interact with her appropriately. The way my son was playing with her yesterday was something he's done many times before, which is why it was so shocking.

[Anonymous]

Well done, OP. I had a rescue who was the love of my life so I understand how fast you can fall in love with a dog, but it's the right thing for your children. Best wishes to you all, dog included.

[Anonymous]

OP, you've been working with a trainer. What did s/he say?

[Anonymous]

You are doing the right thing. My best friend's family dog mauled her 7 year old. Literally bit the calf muscle off. (He was in ICU for a week and is now 10 and doing great). Had it been any other body part, he literally would have died. The week before the dog had snapped at her (my friend) and it worried her enough to hire a trainer. But the attack was a week later. The dog had been theirs for 7 years and it was a shock to everyone. I can't tell you how much my friend beats herself up about not taking the first snap seriously.

[Anonymous]

OP - You are not only doing the right thing. You are doing the only responsible thing. This is not a choice. A dog that shows aggression cannot stay in a home with children. I'm sorry. I know it sucks. But kids always come first.

[Anonymous]

One more thing OP - I am the PP who has been raising and training German Shepherd Dogs for 20 years. Obviously, I LOVE the breed. Both of the ones we have now are rescues. I got a phone call from an out of state friend about a month ago. They were looking to adopt a dog and came across a German Shepherd Dog in a local shelter. The dog was estimated to have been between 2 and 3 years old. They have a 3 year old little girl and a 7 year old boy. They spent some time playing with the dog at the shelter and fell in love with him. She called me before they adopted asking my advise. I told her that adopting an adult German Shepherd from a shelter (as opposed to a foster) when you have young children in the house was a bad idea. They adopted anyway.

About a week ago I found out (through another friend) that the dog and the kids were in the back yard playing. The dog attacked their 3 year year for no apparent reason. The little girl is going to be o.k., but needed 12 stitches in her face. It could have been much, much worse.

When you adopt from a shelter, you have no idea what you are getting. If you are in an adult only household or a home with older kids, it's usually fine. Adopting a dog that has been with foster family usually works out o.k. because hopefully the family has had time to learn the dogs temperament. Adopting an adult dog from a shelter is always risky. I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't do it. However, when you do, you accept that you may find out that the dog has behavior issues that you aren't prepared to handle, especially with young children in the home. The moment you see aggression, the dog goes.

[Anonymous]

That there is anyone here recommending anything other than removing this dog from this home just cements for me that this forum has the craziest DCUMers of all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One more thing OP - I am the PP who has been raising and training German Shepherd Dogs for 20 years. Obviously, I LOVE the breed. Both of the ones we have now are rescues. I got a phone call from an out of state friend about a month ago. They were looking to adopt a dog and came across a German Shepherd Dog in a local shelter. The dog was estimated to have been between 2 and 3 years old. They have a 3 year old little girl and a 7 year old boy. They spent some time playing with the dog at the shelter and fell in love with him. She called me before they adopted asking my advise. I told her that adopting an adult German Shepherd from a shelter (as opposed to a foster) when you have young children in the house was a bad idea. They adopted anyway.

About a week ago I found out (through another friend) that the dog and the kids were in the back yard playing. The dog attacked their 3 year year for no apparent reason. The little girl is going to be o.k., but needed 12 stitches in her face. It could have been much, much worse.

When you adopt from a shelter, you have no idea what you are getting. If you are in an adult only household or a home with older kids, it's usually fine. Adopting a dog that has been with foster family usually works out o.k. because hopefully the family has had time to learn the dogs temperament. Adopting an adult dog from a shelter is always risky. I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't do it. However, when you do, you accept that you may find out that the dog has behavior issues that you aren't prepared to handle, especially with young children in the home. The moment you see aggression, the dog goes.

Since you really seem to know a lot about dogs, I have a question for you. Our beagle is 14 years old, and we've had her since she was a puppy. She's always been as gentle as can be---not so much as a growl. She's been around kids her entire life and has never snapped at them for any reason. Now that she's older, if wakened from a deep sleep by being touched, she'll sometimes snap at my husband or me. Our grandchildren are older and know to never touch her when she's asleep, and we only wake her (if needed) by moving her bed a little, which doesn't seem to startle her. Is this typical for older dogs? Your thoughts? TIA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One more thing OP - I am the PP who has been raising and training German Shepherd Dogs for 20 years. Obviously, I LOVE the breed. Both of the ones we have now are rescues. I got a phone call from an out of state friend about a month ago. They were looking to adopt a dog and came across a German Shepherd Dog in a local shelter. The dog was estimated to have been between 2 and 3 years old. They have a 3 year old little girl and a 7 year old boy. They spent some time playing with the dog at the shelter and fell in love with him. She called me before they adopted asking my advise. I told her that adopting an adult German Shepherd from a shelter (as opposed to a foster) when you have young children in the house was a bad idea. They adopted anyway.

About a week ago I found out (through another friend) that the dog and the kids were in the back yard playing. The dog attacked their 3 year year for no apparent reason. The little girl is going to be o.k., but needed 12 stitches in her face. It could have been much, much worse.

When you adopt from a shelter, you have no idea what you are getting. If you are in an adult only household or a home with older kids, it's usually fine. Adopting a dog that has been with foster family usually works out o.k. because hopefully the family has had time to learn the dogs temperament. Adopting an adult dog from a shelter is always risky. I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't do it. However, when you do, you accept that you may find out that the dog has behavior issues that you aren't prepared to handle, especially with young children in the home. The moment you see aggression, the dog goes.

http://www.dogsbite.org/pdf/dog-attack-deaths-maimings-merritt-clifton-2013.pdf see page 10 of this document on bite patterns in german shepherds-it's a good explanation for herding breeds. That face bite was not breed typical but it was the type of bite [fleeting with no latch on] done by a herding breed. When you see aggression and the dog goes where does the dog go? Recycled to a shelter or rescue for another owner? An adults only home where it could have contact with guests of all ages or be a danger to others both animal and human on walks? The shelter/rescue culture as well as the humane society have no regard for public safety relative to inborn behaviorial traits. Erroneously there are even false analogies to racial profiling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That there is anyone here recommending anything other than removing this dog from this home just cements for me that this forum has the craziest DCUMers of all.

No they are victims of marketing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One more thing OP - I am the PP who has been raising and training German Shepherd Dogs for 20 years. Obviously, I LOVE the breed. Both of the ones we have now are rescues. I got a phone call from an out of state friend about a month ago. They were looking to adopt a dog and came across a German Shepherd Dog in a local shelter. The dog was estimated to have been between 2 and 3 years old. They have a 3 year old little girl and a 7 year old boy. They spent some time playing with the dog at the shelter and fell in love with him. She called me before they adopted asking my advise. I told her that adopting an adult German Shepherd from a shelter (as opposed to a foster) when you have young children in the house was a bad idea. They adopted anyway.

About a week ago I found out (through another friend) that the dog and the kids were in the back yard playing. The dog attacked their 3 year year for no apparent reason. The little girl is going to be o.k., but needed 12 stitches in her face. It could have been much, much worse.

When you adopt from a shelter, you have no idea what you are getting. If you are in an adult only household or a home with older kids, it's usually fine. Adopting a dog that has been with foster family usually works out o.k. because hopefully the family has had time to learn the dogs temperament. Adopting an adult dog from a shelter is always risky. I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't do it. However, when you do, you accept that you may find out that the dog has behavior issues that you aren't prepared to handle, especially with young children in the home. The moment you see aggression, the dog goes.

Since you really seem to know a lot about dogs, I have a question for you. Our beagle is 14 years old, and we've had her since she was a puppy. She's always been as gentle as can be---not so much as a growl. She's been around kids her entire life and has never snapped at them for any reason. Now that she's older, if wakened from a deep sleep by being touched, she'll sometimes snap at my husband or me. Our grandchildren are older and know to never touch her when she's asleep, and we only wake her (if needed) by moving her bed a little, which doesn't seem to startle her. Is this typical for older dogs? Your thoughts? TIA.

Your beagle may be in pain or have dementia. The behavior you are seeing can be indicative of either. I would take her to the vet and have her checked out. You have a geriatric dog. That's a totally different scenario. Dogs don't do a very good job of communicating pain to us. Your vet will be able to tell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One more thing OP - I am the PP who has been raising and training German Shepherd Dogs for 20 years. Obviously, I LOVE the breed. Both of the ones we have now are rescues. I got a phone call from an out of state friend about a month ago. They were looking to adopt a dog and came across a German Shepherd Dog in a local shelter. The dog was estimated to have been between 2 and 3 years old. They have a 3 year old little girl and a 7 year old boy. They spent some time playing with the dog at the shelter and fell in love with him. She called me before they adopted asking my advise. I told her that adopting an adult German Shepherd from a shelter (as opposed to a foster) when you have young children in the house was a bad idea. They adopted anyway.

About a week ago I found out (through another friend) that the dog and the kids were in the back yard playing. The dog attacked their 3 year year for no apparent reason. The little girl is going to be o.k., but needed 12 stitches in her face. It could have been much, much worse.

When you adopt from a shelter, you have no idea what you are getting. If you are in an adult only household or a home with older kids, it's usually fine. Adopting a dog that has been with foster family usually works out o.k. because hopefully the family has had time to learn the dogs temperament. Adopting an adult dog from a shelter is always risky. I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't do it. However, when you do, you accept that you may find out that the dog has behavior issues that you aren't prepared to handle, especially with young children in the home. The moment you see aggression, the dog goes.

http://www.dogsbite.org/pdf/dog-attack-deaths-maimings-merritt-clifton-2013.pdf see page 10 of this document on bite patterns in german shepherds-it's a good explanation for herding breeds. That face bite was not breed typical but it was the type of bite [fleeting with no latch on] done by a herding breed. When you see aggression and the dog goes where does the dog go? Recycled to a shelter or rescue for another owner? An adults only home where it could have contact with guests of all ages or be a danger to others both animal and human on walks? The shelter/rescue culture as well as the humane society have no regard for public safety relative to inborn behaviorial traits. Erroneously there are even false analogies to racial profiling.

I'm not even going to respond to that nonsense expect to say that you do not keep dogs that bite for any reason in homes with children. Period. Breed specific behavior (and you are talking to someone who has been raising and training Shepherds for twenty years) is never justification for aggression or biting. We don't even tolerate play biting or mouthing in GSD puppies. Is it normal? Of course. It's also normal for them to try to herd family members, another risky behavior when their are young children in the house. It doesn't mean they can't be trained to understand that they are not in charge. I assure you my GSDs would LOVE to attack my neighbor's cat. It would be completely "normal". However, that cat can walk right by them and they won't touch him. It's simply training.

[Anonymous]

Farm owner here -- send the dog back. You have to be practical about these things. But you also need to teach your kid to back off the dog's space.. they don't like kids to get up in their face, it is threatening, so their is blame on both sides here.

The appropriate response is to walk away, not snap, and that would not be something I'd look over in a new dog. IF I were you I would also learn my dog breeds and be able to recognize a Rottie vs. a lab when I see one before I adopt again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One more thing OP - I am the PP who has been raising and training German Shepherd Dogs for 20 years. Obviously, I LOVE the breed. Both of the ones we have now are rescues. I got a phone call from an out of state friend about a month ago. They were looking to adopt a dog and came across a German Shepherd Dog in a local shelter. The dog was estimated to have been between 2 and 3 years old. They have a 3 year old little girl and a 7 year old boy. They spent some time playing with the dog at the shelter and fell in love with him. She called me before they adopted asking my advise. I told her that adopting an adult German Shepherd from a shelter (as opposed to a foster) when you have young children in the house was a bad idea. They adopted anyway.

About a week ago I found out (through another friend) that the dog and the kids were in the back yard playing. The dog attacked their 3 year year for no apparent reason. The little girl is going to be o.k., but needed 12 stitches in her face. It could have been much, much worse.

When you adopt from a shelter, you have no idea what you are getting. If you are in an adult only household or a home with older kids, it's usually fine. Adopting a dog that has been with foster family usually works out o.k. because hopefully the family has had time to learn the dogs temperament. Adopting an adult dog from a shelter is always risky. I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't do it. However, when you do, you accept that you may find out that the dog has behavior issues that you aren't prepared to handle, especially with young children in the home. The moment you see aggression, the dog goes.

Since you really seem to know a lot about dogs, I have a question for you. Our beagle is 14 years old, and we've had her since she was a puppy. She's always been as gentle as can be---not so much as a growl. She's been around kids her entire life and has never snapped at them for any reason. Now that she's older, if wakened from a deep sleep by being touched, she'll sometimes snap at my husband or me. Our grandchildren are older and know to never touch her when she's asleep, and we only wake her (if needed) by moving her bed a little, which doesn't seem to startle her. Is this typical for older dogs? Your thoughts? TIA.

Your beagle may be in pain or have dementia. The behavior you are seeing can be indicative of either. I would take her to the vet and have her checked out. You have a geriatric dog. That's a totally different scenario. Dogs don't do a very good job of communicating pain to us. Your vet will be able to tell.

Thanks for responding. I agree about both being likely. She does get "premium" (expensive but we don't mind! ) vet care that includes yearly senior wellness checks (definitely arthritis along her spine), more frequent regular checkups, and takes Dasuquin, Soloxine, and sometimes Rimadyl, plus a comfy bed from Orvis. If you have any other recommendations, please feel free to say. Thanks again!

[Anonymous]

OP,

It depends on so many factors!

1. Safest solution: get rid of the dog.

2. Most difficult solution: research dog behavior and psychology, modify dog training and educate other members of the household to handle dog differently. PP had great advice about getting the dog used to poking, handling, petting, interference in general. It will take many more months of vigilance, and you need to be constantly aware of pack instinct. The dog must NEVER think it's superior to your kids or anyone else. There are may practical rules you can in place to make the dog understand everyone is above him and untouchable.
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/articles/grouchydog.htm
The whole site is full of valuable info.

3. Most dangerous solution: do nothing.