Ye Olde K Reading Group Question

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would say you are lucky they go that high - a lot of the kindergarten classes at the local schools cap the students at level 6/D.

Source? I teach K at a Title I school, and we have reading groups currently in the 12-16 range. I have extreme doubts that a school could "cap" reading groups at grade level.

Oh, and we don't cap levels. Recently, we had a student who went to a first grade class for guided reading to be with students on the same level. But it's rare, due to the writing component, which is where most of the high readers get tripped up.

[Anonymous]

A CAP at level 6 does not sound right at all. Our school caps at one level ahead, so for Kindergarten this would be at level 16/J. In K and first it was hard to watch my child stay at the same level for over a year. It was refreshing in third grade once they switched to the MAP-R test for reading instead of M-class. Score on that was 99% for 2 grades up so finally saw I wasn't crazy and the reading was really up there.

And back to OP, i think its really common for the level to be lower than where the kid can read. My younger child, a first grader, is at level 13 but can read all the words in level 16 or even J or K books. Probably at lower level though since not answering the questions with enough detail.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The books they read at school are not meant to be an exciting story but texts short enough to read together and write about. The writing is the part they are working on. I would try to explain that versus talking to the teacher. She's got a long way to go, it will be years of this. My son has always been in the highest reading group (K through 3rd grade) and the books he has read have always been way beneath the level he reads at home. I told him that's because he was working on his writing.

Thanks, that's helpful. I don't think that the "reading group" part is also the writing part, though, is it? To hear her describe it, the reading group doesn't involve a writing component. But then they have "writer's workshop" where they pick out a book and read it and write about it. For that, she gets to pick a book she wants to read, so that's fine. It would be good to actually know this stuff. I suspect it differs from school to school. But even if they do read short texts, i get the sense from her that it's all really basic words. Is that how it's supposed to be?
But I think i'm going to wait a bit, see what the reading level says on the report card and if it jives with what I see at home. Also, give it a couple weeks to shake out.

So what was the reading level on her report card, OP?

12. Not 16! But I looked at the samples for reading levels, and she's totally past 16. So either she had a bad day for the assessment, or she hasn't had one in a while, or my understanding of the levels is totally off. But i can see why she's frustrated. I just don't want her to be upset about it. I think that it's likely she'll move up if there's another assessment soon. If not, the reading group time just isn't that much time and we'll make up for it at home. Meanwhile, getting the kid to write is like asking her to brush her teeth with glass... always something.
Anyway, these are lucky problems. Healthy, happy kid.

You do understand that to test a child's reading level it is far more than asking general comprehension questions like you have done, don't you?

Um, you actually don't know what kind of questions I've asked, but thanks!

I'm not the PP, but teachers should be testing accuracy, speed, fluency, knowledge of phrasing, and comprehension is much more nuanced than "what happened?" They need to be able to retell, make connections to the story, draw inferences, and think about the author's purpose.

Also, those easy chapter books are easy. Yes, they are long, and they are great for building confidence, but once you read one or two they become a breeze. There are picture books at lower levels that might trip up a savvy chapter book reader. The teachers are pulling out benchmark books that your reader must read cold. They do have a responsibility to make sure your reader is assessed at the correct level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The books they read at school are not meant to be an exciting story but texts short enough to read together and write about. The writing is the part they are working on. I would try to explain that versus talking to the teacher. She's got a long way to go, it will be years of this. My son has always been in the highest reading group (K through 3rd grade) and the books he has read have always been way beneath the level he reads at home. I told him that's because he was working on his writing.

Thanks, that's helpful. I don't think that the "reading group" part is also the writing part, though, is it? To hear her describe it, the reading group doesn't involve a writing component. But then they have "writer's workshop" where they pick out a book and read it and write about it. For that, she gets to pick a book she wants to read, so that's fine. It would be good to actually know this stuff. I suspect it differs from school to school. But even if they do read short texts, i get the sense from her that it's all really basic words. Is that how it's supposed to be?
But I think i'm going to wait a bit, see what the reading level says on the report card and if it jives with what I see at home. Also, give it a couple weeks to shake out.

So what was the reading level on her report card, OP?

12. Not 16! But I looked at the samples for reading levels, and she's totally past 16. So either she had a bad day for the assessment, or she hasn't had one in a while, or my understanding of the levels is totally off. But i can see why she's frustrated. I just don't want her to be upset about it. I think that it's likely she'll move up if there's another assessment soon. If not, the reading group time just isn't that much time and we'll make up for it at home. Meanwhile, getting the kid to write is like asking her to brush her teeth with glass... always something.
Anyway, these are lucky problems. Healthy, happy kid.

You do understand that to test a child's reading level it is far more than asking general comprehension questions like you have done, don't you?

Um, you actually don't know what kind of questions I've asked, but thanks!

I'm not the PP, but teachers should be testing accuracy, speed, fluency, knowledge of phrasing, and comprehension is much more nuanced than "what happened?" They need to be able to retell, make connections to the story, draw inferences, and think about the author's purpose.

Also, those easy chapter books are easy. Yes, they are long, and they are great for building confidence, but once you read one or two they become a breeze. There are picture books at lower levels that might trip up a savvy chapter book reader. The teachers are pulling out benchmark books that your reader must read cold. They do have a responsibility to make sure your reader is assessed at the correct level.

OP here, yes I understand all that. I can't ever be totally sure, of course, but I believe I have a pretty good sense of those things. Not dissing the teacher, who I like and think is good. I just suspect there's something interfering with my kid and assessment, whether that's distraction or just a bad day, I don't know. I have checked which books are matched to which levels, and am a pretty good questioner about understanding a text (was a lit major myself). I think she had a bad assessment and now is stuck until the next one. Or maybe there aren't enough kids at her level in her class to merit another group (though that would surprise me). Not the end of the world, I know it will work out. She spent all morning reading to me because she was excited to do her thing, so it's fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The books they read at school are not meant to be an exciting story but texts short enough to read together and write about. The writing is the part they are working on. I would try to explain that versus talking to the teacher. She's got a long way to go, it will be years of this. My son has always been in the highest reading group (K through 3rd grade) and the books he has read have always been way beneath the level he reads at home. I told him that's because he was working on his writing.

Thanks, that's helpful. I don't think that the "reading group" part is also the writing part, though, is it? To hear her describe it, the reading group doesn't involve a writing component. But then they have "writer's workshop" where they pick out a book and read it and write about it. For that, she gets to pick a book she wants to read, so that's fine. It would be good to actually know this stuff. I suspect it differs from school to school. But even if they do read short texts, i get the sense from her that it's all really basic words. Is that how it's supposed to be?
But I think i'm going to wait a bit, see what the reading level says on the report card and if it jives with what I see at home. Also, give it a couple weeks to shake out.

So what was the reading level on her report card, OP?

12. Not 16! But I looked at the samples for reading levels, and she's totally past 16. So either she had a bad day for the assessment, or she hasn't had one in a while, or my understanding of the levels is totally off. But i can see why she's frustrated. I just don't want her to be upset about it. I think that it's likely she'll move up if there's another assessment soon. If not, the reading group time just isn't that much time and we'll make up for it at home. Meanwhile, getting the kid to write is like asking her to brush her teeth with glass... always something.
Anyway, these are lucky problems. Healthy, happy kid.

I agree that reading group really doesn't matter, especially in kindergarten. Also, the books that she is reading during school might be helping her in the writing domain.

She may just really be a 12. And do not be surprised if she is assessed at 16 at the end of the year. DD was reading rainbow fairies and magic tree houses (which are level M), 2 or 3 a day at one point and was only assessed at a level K. They seem to always asses lower than they perform at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The books they read at school are not meant to be an exciting story but texts short enough to read together and write about. The writing is the part they are working on. I would try to explain that versus talking to the teacher. She's got a long way to go, it will be years of this. My son has always been in the highest reading group (K through 3rd grade) and the books he has read have always been way beneath the level he reads at home. I told him that's because he was working on his writing.

Thanks, that's helpful. I don't think that the "reading group" part is also the writing part, though, is it? To hear her describe it, the reading group doesn't involve a writing component. But then they have "writer's workshop" where they pick out a book and read it and write about it. For that, she gets to pick a book she wants to read, so that's fine. It would be good to actually know this stuff. I suspect it differs from school to school. But even if they do read short texts, i get the sense from her that it's all really basic words. Is that how it's supposed to be?
But I think i'm going to wait a bit, see what the reading level says on the report card and if it jives with what I see at home. Also, give it a couple weeks to shake out.

So what was the reading level on her report card, OP?

12. Not 16! But I looked at the samples for reading levels, and she's totally past 16. So either she had a bad day for the assessment, or she hasn't had one in a while, or my understanding of the levels is totally off. But i can see why she's frustrated. I just don't want her to be upset about it. I think that it's likely she'll move up if there's another assessment soon. If not, the reading group time just isn't that much time and we'll make up for it at home. Meanwhile, getting the kid to write is like asking her to brush her teeth with glass... always something.
Anyway, these are lucky problems. Healthy, happy kid.

I agree that reading group really doesn't matter, especially in kindergarten. Also, the books that she is reading during school might be helping her in the writing domain.

She may just really be a 12. And do not be surprised if she is assessed at 16 at the end of the year. DD was reading rainbow fairies and magic tree houses (which are level M), 2 or 3 a day at one point and was only assessed at a level K. They seem to always asses lower than they perform at home.

Thanks! Yep those are what mine reads at home too, fluently and definitely with no comprehension problems. But yeah I agree that reading lower-level stuff might actually be helpful for learning to write and remembering how to spell those words. So I'm not worried. But I do think something is a bit off with that gap between the assessment and what she seems to actually do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The books they read at school are not meant to be an exciting story but texts short enough to read together and write about. The writing is the part they are working on. I would try to explain that versus talking to the teacher. She's got a long way to go, it will be years of this. My son has always been in the highest reading group (K through 3rd grade) and the books he has read have always been way beneath the level he reads at home. I told him that's because he was working on his writing.

Thanks, that's helpful. I don't think that the "reading group" part is also the writing part, though, is it? To hear her describe it, the reading group doesn't involve a writing component. But then they have "writer's workshop" where they pick out a book and read it and write about it. For that, she gets to pick a book she wants to read, so that's fine. It would be good to actually know this stuff. I suspect it differs from school to school. But even if they do read short texts, i get the sense from her that it's all really basic words. Is that how it's supposed to be?
But I think i'm going to wait a bit, see what the reading level says on the report card and if it jives with what I see at home. Also, give it a couple weeks to shake out.

So what was the reading level on her report card, OP?

12. Not 16! But I looked at the samples for reading levels, and she's totally past 16. So either she had a bad day for the assessment, or she hasn't had one in a while, or my understanding of the levels is totally off. But i can see why she's frustrated. I just don't want her to be upset about it. I think that it's likely she'll move up if there's another assessment soon. If not, the reading group time just isn't that much time and we'll make up for it at home. Meanwhile, getting the kid to write is like asking her to brush her teeth with glass... always something.
Anyway, these are lucky problems. Healthy, happy kid.

I agree that reading group really doesn't matter, especially in kindergarten. Also, the books that she is reading during school might be helping her in the writing domain.

She may just really be a 12. And do not be surprised if she is assessed at 16 at the end of the year. DD was reading rainbow fairies and magic tree houses (which are level M), 2 or 3 a day at one point and was only assessed at a level K. They seem to always asses lower than they perform at home.

Thanks! Yep those are what mine reads at home too, fluently and definitely with no comprehension problems. But yeah I agree that reading lower-level stuff might actually be helpful for learning to write and remembering how to spell those words. So I'm not worried. But I do think something is a bit off with that gap between the assessment and what she seems to actually do.

But it's not just what level they read at, the assessment also looks at their writing!

[Anonymous]

It's actually the schools with high SES that seem to cap reading levels, arguing that otherwise a huge percentage of kids will be stuck at 16 for a year or even two because of the writing requirement after that level. We've heard of at least one school where they have this same philosophy but start the writing requirement at a much lower level so that the kids move up as their writing catches up to their reading.. Have mixed feelings about this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would say you are lucky they go that high - a lot of the kindergarten classes at the local schools cap the students at level 6/D.

Source? I teach K at a Title I school, and we have reading groups currently in the 12-16 range. I have extreme doubts that a school could "cap" reading groups at grade level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The books they read at school are not meant to be an exciting story but texts short enough to read together and write about. The writing is the part they are working on. I would try to explain that versus talking to the teacher. She's got a long way to go, it will be years of this. My son has always been in the highest reading group (K through 3rd grade) and the books he has read have always been way beneath the level he reads at home. I told him that's because he was working on his writing.

Thanks, that's helpful. I don't think that the "reading group" part is also the writing part, though, is it? To hear her describe it, the reading group doesn't involve a writing component. But then they have "writer's workshop" where they pick out a book and read it and write about it. For that, she gets to pick a book she wants to read, so that's fine. It would be good to actually know this stuff. I suspect it differs from school to school. But even if they do read short texts, i get the sense from her that it's all really basic words. Is that how it's supposed to be?
But I think i'm going to wait a bit, see what the reading level says on the report card and if it jives with what I see at home. Also, give it a couple weeks to shake out.

So what was the reading level on her report card, OP?

12. Not 16! But I looked at the samples for reading levels, and she's totally past 16. So either she had a bad day for the assessment, or she hasn't had one in a while, or my understanding of the levels is totally off. But i can see why she's frustrated. I just don't want her to be upset about it. I think that it's likely she'll move up if there's another assessment soon. If not, the reading group time just isn't that much time and we'll make up for it at home. Meanwhile, getting the kid to write is like asking her to brush her teeth with glass... always something.
Anyway, these are lucky problems. Healthy, happy kid.

I agree that reading group really doesn't matter, especially in kindergarten. Also, the books that she is reading during school might be helping her in the writing domain.

She may just really be a 12. And do not be surprised if she is assessed at 16 at the end of the year. DD was reading rainbow fairies and magic tree houses (which are level M), 2 or 3 a day at one point and was only assessed at a level K. They seem to always asses lower than they perform at home.

Thanks! Yep those are what mine reads at home too, fluently and definitely with no comprehension problems. But yeah I agree that reading lower-level stuff might actually be helpful for learning to write and remembering how to spell those words. So I'm not worried. But I do think something is a bit off with that gap between the assessment and what she seems to actually do.

But it's not just what level they read at, the assessment also looks at their writing!

That's not correct, at least not in kindergarten in our school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The books they read at school are not meant to be an exciting story but texts short enough to read together and write about. The writing is the part they are working on. I would try to explain that versus talking to the teacher. She's got a long way to go, it will be years of this. My son has always been in the highest reading group (K through 3rd grade) and the books he has read have always been way beneath the level he reads at home. I told him that's because he was working on his writing.

Thanks, that's helpful. I don't think that the "reading group" part is also the writing part, though, is it? To hear her describe it, the reading group doesn't involve a writing component. But then they have "writer's workshop" where they pick out a book and read it and write about it. For that, she gets to pick a book she wants to read, so that's fine. It would be good to actually know this stuff. I suspect it differs from school to school. But even if they do read short texts, i get the sense from her that it's all really basic words. Is that how it's supposed to be?
But I think i'm going to wait a bit, see what the reading level says on the report card and if it jives with what I see at home. Also, give it a couple weeks to shake out.

So what was the reading level on her report card, OP?

12. Not 16! But I looked at the samples for reading levels, and she's totally past 16. So either she had a bad day for the assessment, or she hasn't had one in a while, or my understanding of the levels is totally off. But i can see why she's frustrated. I just don't want her to be upset about it. I think that it's likely she'll move up if there's another assessment soon. If not, the reading group time just isn't that much time and we'll make up for it at home. Meanwhile, getting the kid to write is like asking her to brush her teeth with glass... always something.
Anyway, these are lucky problems. Healthy, happy kid.

I agree that reading group really doesn't matter, especially in kindergarten. Also, the books that she is reading during school might be helping her in the writing domain.

She may just really be a 12. And do not be surprised if she is assessed at 16 at the end of the year. DD was reading rainbow fairies and magic tree houses (which are level M), 2 or 3 a day at one point and was only assessed at a level K. They seem to always asses lower than they perform at home.

Thanks! Yep those are what mine reads at home too, fluently and definitely with no comprehension problems. But yeah I agree that reading lower-level stuff might actually be helpful for learning to write and remembering how to spell those words. So I'm not worried. But I do think something is a bit off with that gap between the assessment and what she seems to actually do.

But it's not just what level they read at, the assessment also looks at their writing!

That's not correct, at least not in kindergarten in our school.

Our MCPS K teacher told us that the rating system was the same for the whole county, that both reading AND writing are factored in. My DD in K is assessed as a K but she told us at conferences that if he writing were stronger she would be at least an M.

[Anonymous]

PP is confused. They do all use the same assessments but the application is up to the schools.

Some require writing starting at level I. Some require written comprehension questions starting way below that. Some will allow kindergartener to progress above I without the writing requirement.

Some schools stop testing at certain levels for certain grades. Others do not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The focus in kindergarten is to get the kids who don't know all the letter sounds and sight words to learn letter sounds, begin to blend them and pick up some sight words. My reader was basically ignored in kinder. He had to read the same beginning books as everyone else. I kept telling myself kinder is about adjusting to elementary school, making friends, etc. He enjoyed school so I never talked to the teacher because I knew after volunteering in her class nothing was going to change. I let him read whatever he wanted at home and just worked on writing- proper letter formation, spelling (Not invented spelling), spacing, dictating sentences.

This but I have to say my kid was bored every year with reading groups. They always cap the highest group. There are so many more kids that barely read and since they don't track the entire grade and put them all in one class, the highest reading groups meet very quickly and very far and few in-between. It truly does suck. I pulled one of my kids to private by 3rd because she was so beyond bored. It is amazing how much better it is, but then again, I have to pay for it. The other 2 are just fine being in the top groups and then just enjoy their school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would say you are lucky they go that high - a lot of the kindergarten classes at the local schools cap the students at level 6/D.

Yup that is us. The teacher said at conferences, she could pull my daughter and another girl into a separate group higher than 6 but wants to keep more kids together and maybe give our two more comprehension and help out the others.

So glad you are not only boring my kid but using her as a teacher's assistant too.

[Anonymous]

PP I would talk to the principal, that doesn't seem appropriate.

[Anonymous]

I noticed that the K reading books for the advanced groups tend to be very heavy on non-fiction. My daughter hated them, but my son really enjoys them. The fiction books tend to be much worse -- I'm not sure it's the teacher's fault, its just that there are not many authors writing good books at the 15-16 level (which is probably what your daughter's reading is, if she's at the top of the K class). At home, she's probably reading K through M level books, which are much more interesting -- it's good to read above your level.