Any regrets about not accepting TJ admission?

[Anonymous]

^^Yes, thought of the weighted GPA thing after I posted. Some A's are worth more than others. As for remedial math: I do know that it was started a couple of years ago because there was a perceived need for it -- ie., a third of freshman were not doing as well math has they had been in the past. Prior to that TJ teachers didn't see so many kids who struggled with TJ math. So something changed and I doubt it was a sudden decline in teaching in middle school. Most kids who are good at math just get it, so even if their geometry teacher wasn't Vern Williams, chances are they'd catch on quickly enough to not need remediation. Perhaps this is the explanation TJ is using to let in kids incapable of the work. But the fact remains that in a STEM magnet, remedial anything should be unnecessary when you have hundreds of kids being turned away each year who could actually do the work from day 1.

[Anonymous]

There are some misunderstandings about freshman at TJ getting help with math. I attended the meetings held at the school in the spring of 2012 after the math teachers wrote a letter about their observations of TJ freshmen math students.
1. The teachers had been observing for a few years that some freshman had trouble with Honors Algebra II. This was not something new that suddenly popped up a couple years ago. It had been happening for a number of years.
2. During the summer of 2011, they decided to identify within the first 30 days of school which students might need help and to require them to come in for extra help during the activity period. The idea was to nip problems in the bud and to start working with kids early in the year so they would be more likely to be successful.
3. The percentage of kids who needed help in math was 15, not 30.

There is no separate "remedial" math class at TJ. Roughly 15% of the last few classes have been required to come in for extra help during activity time.

My sources for this information are parent meetings held at the school and PTA newsletters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are some misunderstandings about freshman at TJ getting help with math. I attended the meetings held at the school in the spring of 2012 after the math teachers wrote a letter about their observations of TJ freshmen math students.
1. The teachers had been observing for a few years that some freshman had trouble with Honors Algebra II. This was not something new that suddenly popped up a couple years ago. It had been happening for a number of years.
2. During the summer of 2011, they decided to identify within the first 30 days of school which students might need help and to require them to come in for extra help during the activity period. The idea was to nip problems in the bud and to start working with kids early in the year so they would be more likely to be successful.
3. The percentage of kids who needed help in math was 15, not 30.

There is no separate "remedial" math class at TJ. Roughly 15% of the last few classes have been required to come in for extra help during activity time.

My sources for this information are parent meetings held at the school and PTA newsletters.

Not according to a TJ Physics teacher who wrote this article for the WAPo in 2012. He said 1/3 or students, which would actually be 33%

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-new-thomas-jefferson-it-includes-remedial-math/2012/05/25/gJQAlZRYqU_story.html

Seems like TJ administration has been revisionist if they are now telling parents the number that year was 15%. Granted the percentage could be that low now given that the school took so much heat.

By the way, never said there was a special class. I'm sure kids could get the remedial help they needed in all sorts of different ways, session, whatever terminology is less embarrassing to TJ parents and students.

[Anonymous]

PP here. On closer reading, it appears that 1/3 of the students were in remedial classes for math or science. So I suppose math could have been half of that. But still, kids need remediation in science too? Why even have a STEM magnet?

[Anonymous]

As a PP indicated, not all FCPS middle schools have the same curriculum even if they technically offer the same classes. Some have a much more advanced curriculum than others. So some kids arrive at TJ with a "gap" vs. where others are. It isn't exactly their fault if their school didn't offer the material.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP here. On closer reading, it appears that 1/3 of the students were in remedial classes for math or science. So I suppose math could have been half of that. But still, kids need remediation in science too? Why even have a STEM magnet?

The kids are getting extra help to receive grades of B or above in TJ version of Algebra II in order to maintain the mandatory minimum 3.0 unweighted GPA (kids will be put on probation if they receive 3.3 unweighted GPA and will be encouraged to seek "remediation if they appear to be headed for a grade of B or B- for a course and will be forced out if the overall unweighted GPA does not meet the 3.0 unweighted GPA). We are not talking about the typical "remediation" for kids receiving or headed toward D or F. There is a fundamental difference between getting extra help because a student is headed for a grade of B and getting help because a student is failing miserably and headed for D/F. "Remediation' is offered only because the school has an obligation to help even those students doing relatively well (B) since B (83 to 86) is not acceptable at TJ whereas 83 to 86 in a math class for any other students in fcps would be more than aceptable.

These kids that get kicked out for academic reasons move to their base schools and typically end up in the top 5-10% of their class. That should tell you something about the quality of students at TJ. Please keep these in mind before wondering why there is remediation at TJ. There should not even be a minimum 3.0 unweighted GPA requirement in the first place which puts additional pressure on the kids. The students should decide for themselves if they want to move back to their base school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here. On closer reading, it appears that 1/3 of the students were in remedial classes for math or science. So I suppose math could have been half of that. But still, kids need remediation in science too? Why even have a STEM magnet?

The kids are getting extra help to receive grades of B or above in TJ version of Algebra II in order to maintain the mandatory minimum 3.0 unweighted GPA (kids will be put on probation if they receive 3.3 unweighted GPA and will be encouraged to seek "remediation if they appear to be headed for a grade of B or B- for a course and will be forced out if the overall unweighted GPA does not meet the 3.0 unweighted GPA). We are not talking about the typical "remediation" for kids receiving or headed toward D or F. There is a fundamental difference between getting extra help because a student is headed for a grade of B and getting help because a student is failing miserably and headed for D/F. "Remediation' is offered only because the school has an obligation to help even those students doing relatively well (B) since B (83 to 86) is not acceptable at TJ whereas 83 to 86 in a math class for any other students in fcps would be more than aceptable.

These kids that get kicked out for academic reasons move to their base schools and typically end up in the top 5-10% of their class. That should tell you something about the quality of students at TJ. Please keep these in mind before wondering why there is remediation at TJ. There should not even be a minimum 3.0 unweighted GPA requirement in the first place which puts additional pressure on the kids. The students should decide for themselves if they want to move back to their base school.

My DC and his friends (all math kids) had a relatively easy time in Algebra II, with all of them getting A's. Obviously, TJ feels this is a core course and the basis for much higher math, so if they have a hard time getting an A in this entry-level math course for TJ, perhaps that is a sign they need help. I also have no problem with an unweighted 3.0 as a requirement. Isn't that a B- or C average? Surely these brilliant kids can manage that. If they can't, I'm sure there are others who can. If they don't want pressure, perhaps they shouldn't be there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here. On closer reading, it appears that 1/3 of the students were in remedial classes for math or science. So I suppose math could have been half of that. But still, kids need remediation in science too? Why even have a STEM magnet?

The kids are getting extra help to receive grades of B or above in TJ version of Algebra II in order to maintain the mandatory minimum 3.0 unweighted GPA (kids will be put on probation if they receive 3.3 unweighted GPA and will be encouraged to seek "remediation if they appear to be headed for a grade of B or B- for a course and will be forced out if the overall unweighted GPA does not meet the 3.0 unweighted GPA). We are not talking about the typical "remediation" for kids receiving or headed toward D or F. There is a fundamental difference between getting extra help because a student is headed for a grade of B and getting help because a student is failing miserably and headed for D/F. "Remediation' is offered only because the school has an obligation to help even those students doing relatively well (B) since B (83 to 86) is not acceptable at TJ whereas 83 to 86 in a math class for any other students in fcps would be more than aceptable.

These kids that get kicked out for academic reasons move to their base schools and typically end up in the top 5-10% of their class. That should tell you something about the quality of students at TJ. Please keep these in mind before wondering why there is remediation at TJ. There should not even be a minimum 3.0 unweighted GPA requirement in the first place which puts additional pressure on the kids. The students should decide for themselves if they want to move back to their base school.

My DC and his friends (all math kids) had a relatively easy time in Algebra II, with all of them getting A's. Obviously, TJ feels this is a core course and the basis for much higher math, so if they have a hard time getting an A in this entry-level math course for TJ, perhaps that is a sign they need help. I also have no problem with an unweighted 3.0 as a requirement. Isn't that a B- or C average? Surely these brilliant kids can manage that. If they can't, I'm sure there are others who can. If they don't want pressure, perhaps they shouldn't be there?

1. TJ's Algebra II is much tougher than base schools' Algebra II.
2. There is no grade inflation at TJ unlike some other schools and obviously not all of the students in a given class will receive A or B+.
3. 3.0 unweighted GPA is B not B- or C.
4. The minimum unweighted 3.0 GPA requirement was instituted several years ago and it wasn't there when the TJ was established in 1986.

[Anonymous]

Granted this is years ago - in the 90s - but my brother's best friend left TJ after 3 days. She didn't like it (She is asian, and was getting some slack about how she only got in because she was asian and no smart kids come from her high school....Go Hawks!) She ended up graduated top of her class, I don't recall where her undergraduate was - but east coast school. She ended up post-doc at MIT. My brother didn't get into TJ, ended up at UVA undergrad and is currently post-doc at Georgetown.

My DS currently jokes that when parents ask him if he wants to go to TJ he says his goal is to get accepted and then turn it down and get pupil placed to study foreign languages and auto shop (our base school doesn't have the combo of languages he wants). (we will worry about that later this year!!)

I've lived in FCPS long enough to see that it's really up to each kid. I've know kids who fail out of college after TJ and others that do just fine.

My goal is to get my kids through HS as happy, well-adjusted people who can talk to me w/out texting me! HS was a total stress maker 20 years ago, and it's only gotten worse here. college was a breeze coming out of FCPS 20 years ago - I'm not worried about it (getting in in-state is the problem now). They will be prepped for college - it's life that I'm worried about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here. On closer reading, it appears that 1/3 of the students were in remedial classes for math or science. So I suppose math could have been half of that. But still, kids need remediation in science too? Why even have a STEM magnet?

The kids are getting extra help to receive grades of B or above in TJ version of Algebra II in order to maintain the mandatory minimum 3.0 unweighted GPA (kids will be put on probation if they receive 3.3 unweighted GPA and will be encouraged to seek "remediation if they appear to be headed for a grade of B or B- for a course and will be forced out if the overall unweighted GPA does not meet the 3.0 unweighted GPA). We are not talking about the typical "remediation" for kids receiving or headed toward D or F. There is a fundamental difference between getting extra help because a student is headed for a grade of B and getting help because a student is failing miserably and headed for D/F. "Remediation' is offered only because the school has an obligation to help even those students doing relatively well (B) since B (83 to 86) is not acceptable at TJ whereas 83 to 86 in a math class for any other students in fcps would be more than aceptable.

These kids that get kicked out for academic reasons move to their base schools and typically end up in the top 5-10% of their class. That should tell you something about the quality of students at TJ. Please keep these in mind before wondering why there is remediation at TJ. There should not even be a minimum 3.0 unweighted GPA requirement in the first place which puts additional pressure on the kids. The students should decide for themselves if they want to move back to their base school.

My DC and his friends (all math kids) had a relatively easy time in Algebra II, with all of them getting A's. Obviously, TJ feels this is a core course and the basis for much higher math, so if they have a hard time getting an A in this entry-level math course for TJ, perhaps that is a sign they need help. I also have no problem with an unweighted 3.0 as a requirement. Isn't that a B- or C average? Surely these brilliant kids can manage that. If they can't, I'm sure there are others who can. If they don't want pressure, perhaps they shouldn't be there?

1. TJ's Algebra II is much tougher than base schools' Algebra II.
2. There is no grade inflation at TJ unlike some other schools and obviously not all of the students in a given class will receive A or B+.
3. 3.0 unweighted GPA is B not B- or C.
4. The minimum unweighted 3.0 GPA requirement was instituted several years ago and it wasn't there when the TJ was established in 1986.

1. Son and friends were at TJ and had no problem with Algebra II.
2. Depends on the school, class and teacher.
3. 3.0 unweighted GPA is a B. Kids who are smart enough to get into TJ should be able to get all B's. I mean PE was an easy A even for my nonathletic kid. Presumably, a kid brilliant enough to get into TJ could manage at least one other A in a core course.
4. The 3.0 rule wasn't needed when the school was established because it accepted the kind of math and science kids for which it was created. The requirement was instituted after too many people with no real interest or aptitude for math and science were let in, some legacies because a sibling had done well there, some athletic, because administrators at TJ thought that would be cool, and even, if memory serves, one girl who was a model. Not that that meant she wasn't smart, but I think it was part and parcel of TJ becoming too full of itself and wanting to be something it wasn't. They lost the plot. The 3.0 rule was one attempt to get the school back on track.

[Anonymous]

Part of the problem stems from kids doing extensive prepping for the TJ application process. They get to TJ and have difficulty dealing with the classes on their own. I think it becomes clear to the teachers pretty quickly which kids can handle the work without outside help and which kids needed a lot of help to get ready to apply and then complete the application.

[Anonymous]

Isn't the foo fighters drummer a TJ drop out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here. On closer reading, it appears that 1/3 of the students were in remedial classes for math or science. So I suppose math could have been half of that. But still, kids need remediation in science too? Why even have a STEM magnet?

The kids are getting extra help to receive grades of B or above in TJ version of Algebra II in order to maintain the mandatory minimum 3.0 unweighted GPA (kids will be put on probation if they receive 3.3 unweighted GPA and will be encouraged to seek "remediation if they appear to be headed for a grade of B or B- for a course and will be forced out if the overall unweighted GPA does not meet the 3.0 unweighted GPA). We are not talking about the typical "remediation" for kids receiving or headed toward D or F. There is a fundamental difference between getting extra help because a student is headed for a grade of B and getting help because a student is failing miserably and headed for D/F. "Remediation' is offered only because the school has an obligation to help even those students doing relatively well (B) since B (83 to 86) is not acceptable at TJ whereas 83 to 86 in a math class for any other students in fcps would be more than aceptable.

These kids that get kicked out for academic reasons move to their base schools and typically end up in the top 5-10% of their class. That should tell you something about the quality of students at TJ. Please keep these in mind before wondering why there is remediation at TJ. There should not even be a minimum 3.0 unweighted GPA requirement in the first place which puts additional pressure on the kids. The students should decide for themselves if they want to move back to their base school.

My DC and his friends (all math kids) had a relatively easy time in Algebra II, with all of them getting A's. Obviously, TJ feels this is a core course and the basis for much higher math, so if they have a hard time getting an A in this entry-level math course for TJ, perhaps that is a sign they need help. I also have no problem with an unweighted 3.0 as a requirement. Isn't that a B- or C average? Surely these brilliant kids can manage that. If they can't, I'm sure there are others who can. If they don't want pressure, perhaps they shouldn't be there?

1. TJ's Algebra II is much tougher than base schools' Algebra II.
2. There is no grade inflation at TJ unlike some other schools and obviously not all of the students in a given class will receive A or B+.
3. 3.0 unweighted GPA is B not B- or C.
4. The minimum unweighted 3.0 GPA requirement was instituted several years ago and it wasn't there when the TJ was established in 1986.

1. Son and friends were at TJ and had no problem with Algebra II.
2. Depends on the school, class and teacher.
3. 3.0 unweighted GPA is a B. Kids who are smart enough to get into TJ should be able to get all B's. I mean PE was an easy A even for my nonathletic kid. Presumably, a kid brilliant enough to get into TJ could manage at least one other A in a core course.
4. The 3.0 rule wasn't needed when the school was established because it accepted the kind of math and science kids for which it was created. The requirement was instituted after too many people with no real interest or aptitude for math and science were let in, some legacies because a sibling had done well there, some athletic, because administrators at TJ thought that would be cool, and even, if memory serves, one girl who was a model. Not that that meant she wasn't smart, but I think it was part and parcel of TJ becoming too full of itself and wanting to be something it wasn't. They lost the plot. The 3.0 rule was one attempt to get the school back on track.

My son had no problem with Algebra II at TJ as well and in fact he had the highest score in his class. However, that is not the point. The point is the 3.0 unweighted GPA requirement and the side effects that such requirement create. It led to "artificial" remediation for B students, forces TJ kids to focus too much on GPA and take AP courses they may not be genuinely interested in instead of taking post AP courses with less weigting or other interesting TJ unique science courses with less or no weigting which goes against the notion of encouraging students to pursue their interest and passion in stem.

In addition, there are TJ kids who excel in Varsity Math Team and excel at National Math Tournaments who do not necessarily excel in traditional math courses (they are different types of math and it is counter-intuitive but happens), and there are Intel/Siemens semifinalists who are not necessarily maintaining high GPAs since they love engaging in original research spending lot of time on research but not necessarily grade obsessed etc. Are these students supposed to go back to base schools if they have 3.2 -3.3 unweighted GPAs? Wasn't TJ created for these types of students who are passionate about math/science and think outside the box and not necessarily obsessed about GPA or college admissions? These are more complicated issues and not as simple as low GPA means not good in math and science. In fact, it's possible to game the GPA system where non-stem kids can have higher overall GPA by getting As in non-stem courses and just taking the bare minimum requirements for stem courses (e.g. only go up to calculus AB in senior year while taking course such as AP Psychology, AP Music, AP European history etc. which are all 5.0 courses). Does it make sense for a student who places in top 20 at the national math tournament to be in "remediation" if the kid is getting B in math/science courses?

The bottom line is the admissions system should be revised and the 3.0 rule should be re-examined.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here. On closer reading, it appears that 1/3 of the students were in remedial classes for math or science. So I suppose math could have been half of that. But still, kids need remediation in science too? Why even have a STEM magnet?

The kids are getting extra help to receive grades of B or above in TJ version of Algebra II in order to maintain the mandatory minimum 3.0 unweighted GPA (kids will be put on probation if they receive 3.3 unweighted GPA and will be encouraged to seek "remediation if they appear to be headed for a grade of B or B- for a course and will be forced out if the overall unweighted GPA does not meet the 3.0 unweighted GPA). We are not talking about the typical "remediation" for kids receiving or headed toward D or F. There is a fundamental difference between getting extra help because a student is headed for a grade of B and getting help because a student is failing miserably and headed for D/F. "Remediation' is offered only because the school has an obligation to help even those students doing relatively well (B) since B (83 to 86) is not acceptable at TJ whereas 83 to 86 in a math class for any other students in fcps would be more than aceptable.

These kids that get kicked out for academic reasons move to their base schools and typically end up in the top 5-10% of their class. That should tell you something about the quality of students at TJ. Please keep these in mind before wondering why there is remediation at TJ. There should not even be a minimum 3.0 unweighted GPA requirement in the first place which puts additional pressure on the kids. The students should decide for themselves if they want to move back to their base school.

My DC and his friends (all math kids) had a relatively easy time in Algebra II, with all of them getting A's. Obviously, TJ feels this is a core course and the basis for much higher math, so if they have a hard time getting an A in this entry-level math course for TJ, perhaps that is a sign they need help. I also have no problem with an unweighted 3.0 as a requirement. Isn't that a B- or C average? Surely these brilliant kids can manage that. If they can't, I'm sure there are others who can. If they don't want pressure, perhaps they shouldn't be there?

1. TJ's Algebra II is much tougher than base schools' Algebra II.
2. There is no grade inflation at TJ unlike some other schools and obviously not all of the students in a given class will receive A or B+.
3. 3.0 unweighted GPA is B not B- or C.
4. The minimum unweighted 3.0 GPA requirement was instituted several years ago and it wasn't there when the TJ was established in 1986.

1. Son and friends were at TJ and had no problem with Algebra II.
2. Depends on the school, class and teacher.
3. 3.0 unweighted GPA is a B. Kids who are smart enough to get into TJ should be able to get all B's. I mean PE was an easy A even for my nonathletic kid. Presumably, a kid brilliant enough to get into TJ could manage at least one other A in a core course.
4. The 3.0 rule wasn't needed when the school was established because it accepted the kind of math and science kids for which it was created. The requirement was instituted after too many people with no real interest or aptitude for math and science were let in, some legacies because a sibling had done well there, some athletic, because administrators at TJ thought that would be cool, and even, if memory serves, one girl who was a model. Not that that meant she wasn't smart, but I think it was part and parcel of TJ becoming too full of itself and wanting to be something it wasn't. They lost the plot. The 3.0 rule was one attempt to get the school back on track.

My son had no problem with Algebra II at TJ as well and in fact he had the highest score in his class. However, that is not the point. The point is the 3.0 unweighted GPA requirement and the side effects that such requirement create. It led to "artificial" remediation for B students, forces TJ kids to focus too much on GPA and take AP courses they may not be genuinely interested in instead of taking post AP courses with less weigting or other interesting TJ unique science courses with less or no weigting which goes against the notion of encouraging students to pursue their interest and passion in stem.

In addition, there are TJ kids who excel in Varsity Math Team and excel at National Math Tournaments who do not necessarily excel in traditional math courses (they are different types of math and it is counter-intuitive but happens), and there are Intel/Siemens semifinalists who are not necessarily maintaining high GPAs since they love engaging in original research spending lot of time on research but not necessarily grade obsessed etc. Are these students supposed to go back to base schools if they have 3.2 -3.3 unweighted GPAs? Wasn't TJ created for these types of students who are passionate about math/science and think outside the box and not necessarily obsessed about GPA or college admissions? These are more complicated issues and not as simple as low GPA means not good in math and science. In fact, it's possible to game the GPA system where non-stem kids can have higher overall GPA by getting As in non-stem courses and just taking the bare minimum requirements for stem courses (e.g. only go up to calculus AB in senior year while taking course such as AP Psychology, AP Music, AP European history etc. which are all 5.0 courses). Does it make sense for a student who places in top 20 at the national math tournament to be in "remediation" if the kid is getting B in math/science courses?

The bottom line is the admissions system should be revised and the 3.0 rule should be re-examined.

+100