Frustrated with Quality of Math at Beauvoir?

[Anonymous]

Kudos to the OP for admitting that Beauvoir isn't perfect. See, the world didn't end . . .

[Anonymous]

Mathematician, I have no opinion on this thread, but I am really curious about what exactly you do. Do you teach mathematics somewhere? Do you some sort of consulting in some math-related field? When I think of "mathematician," I picture a wooly headed old guy who lives in an old English tower, scribbles on the blackboard, and shouts "eureka!" a lot. In today's day and age, that can't be what a mathematician does, especially not one with kids in private school in DC. If you don't mind revealing just a little info, what does your basic run-of-the-mill mathematician do in 2009?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Mathematician, I have no opinion on this thread, but I am really curious about what exactly you do. Do you teach mathematics somewhere? Do you some sort of consulting in some math-related field? When I think of "mathematician," I picture a wooly headed old guy who lives in an old English tower, scribbles on the blackboard, and shouts "eureka!" a lot. In today's day and age, that can't be what a mathematician does, especially not one with kids in private school in DC. If you don't mind revealing just a little info, what does your basic run-of-the-mill mathematician do in 2009?

they try to come up with new pricing models for MBS/CDO/CDS to save Wall St.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I am a current Beauvoir parent and I agree with 15:45. I have two kids there, one in 3rd and one in K. My third grader's mathematical comprehension astounds me. However, she has not "memorized" all of her multiplication tables (facts). This does not concern me or my husband who is a middle school algebra teacher in MC. He is of the philosophy that memorization of math facts is the lowest form of learning. She will know them by heart one day. What impresses us more is that she can dissect a math problem and can think her way through almost any elementary math problem. I credit Everyday/Chicago math for that. Think about it, these kids will eventually get their addition and multiplication facts. Almost anyone can memorize them. I guess I could drill her and make sure that she knows them but I would rather her understanding be concrete than spend time drilling math facts into her memory. Just my humble opinion.

I am a mathematician, and I am curious about your husbands statement. Ask him if he thinks that those who memorize facts, do not also understand. I would love to know what is so wrong with memorization?

Not the original poster but an educator who also teaches mathematics. I understand the statement. Memorization is the ability to restate information. If children can tell you that 6 X 3 = 18 but are not able to connect this understanding to repeated addition or picture representations they do not understand the concept of multiplication. This is often the case in mathematics; students can tell you the formula (because they have memorized it )but do not have an understanding why the formula works. The lack of mathematical understanding causes great difficult for students as they matriculate to more difficult mathematics courses.

Just food for thought . . . When students are given a problem such as 6 X 5 they automatically say 30. The = sign does not necessarily call for a solution it means balance. So students could write 6 X 5 = 10 + 10 + 10 or 40 - 10. If students do not have the mathematical understanding that the = sign means balance this will effect them when they take courses such as algebra. This is the problem with memorization.

Do you have any studies to back that up? I am curious because I don't believe that anyone has been able to show that the old school approach is bad. I also think that when children memorize, MOST of them are indeed also understanding.

Sorry I have no research to back this up. Like I said before I am an educator and can only speak from experience. Do I want my students to know there facts yes but more importantly I want them to understand the big ideas of mathematics. Many students are missing these big ideas. For example students have difficult understanding the connection between the area formula for a triangle and a square.

Final thought . . . Memorization is not good in isolation for any subject matter.

I am not saying just memorize, but I do notice that there is this anti-memorization group in the US. I have tutored many a child here in math, and I notice that because they have not been "drilled" with the basics, esp. multiplication, they can't move with speed through certain problems. Then it takes them FOREVER to get through one problem, then they can't practice many, then they don't get enough practice, and so on. Even with calculators, they press the wrong number, and they can't even see why they were way off because the knowledge is not there. Lot of people can memorize and understand, they are not exclusive approaches.

I am not any of the previous posters, but wanted to chime in and say that I too have tutored many older kids and adults in various math subjects and often notice that a prime cause of their poor performance is related to not actually having basic math facts cold, hard memorized -- this includes math fact tables as well as higher math such as equations in geometry and trigonometry, factoring patterns, etc. Yes, of course, memorization alone is not best, but "understanding" the math concept and then having to count on your fingers and toes to actually DO the math problem isn't a good solution either. The lack of memorization just compounds as the student continues thru the math path. Totally agree with all else you said about calculator, etc. PP!!!!

[Anonymous]

Many of the schools use Everyday Math which does not seem popular among the parents, but seems to be well-liked by the kids. Our child is at Beauvoir and I, too, felt that math was a bit deficient. I was pleasantly surprised that the recent ERB test score results did not indicate this was the case. The ERB percentiles are compared against "Suburban" and "Independent" schools. Our child's math scores were quite strong in math, in comparison.

I do think it's important to memorize, but I'm happy to do that at home. Actually, I often "catch" our child playing on the computer using the First In Math computer program given by the school which is mostly memorization. I love that our child loves math and feels that she's good at it. She says it's her favorite subject. I do think that Everyday Math opens that door for many kids because they aren't "failing" at it in the early grades just because they can't finish the subtraction worksheet fast enough. It's important to get those facts down, but I'm not convinced it needs to be the defining measurement of success at the early grades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is nothing wrong with the repetition. The kids work at their own pace.

Isn't it tedious for kids who get it quickly? Do they have other options?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wondering if others feel the same? We have had two children at the school for over 8 years and remain frustrated about the quality and level of math teaching at the school. Feel it has been a hindrance when one of our children moved on to another Cathedral school and are worried about our second.

Anyone else frustrated with math at Beauvoir? If so what can we do about it?

Ex-Beauvoir parent here. I would suggest that you drill your child in basic math facts NOW. My Beauvoir alum really loves math and I had to provide him enrichment outside of Beauvoir.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Mathematician, I have no opinion on this thread, but I am really curious about what exactly you do. Do you teach mathematics somewhere? Do you some sort of consulting in some math-related field? When I think of "mathematician," I picture a wooly headed old guy who lives in an old English tower, scribbles on the blackboard, and shouts "eureka!" a lot. In today's day and age, that can't be what a mathematician does, especially not one with kids in private school in DC. If you don't mind revealing just a little info, what does your basic run-of-the-mill mathematician do in 2009?

NSA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is nothing wrong with the repetition. The kids work at their own pace.

Isn't it tedious for kids who get it quickly? Do they have other options?

Montessori moves at the child's rate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a long-standing fight and its called the Math wars. Lefties want conceptual and less memorization while cons want embrace the driill approach. Most fair and balanced analysis and research suggests that we need to maintain a base level of kill and drill and add conceptual. One of the reasons our students lag in international math and science achievement is because our math courses arent rigorous enough

Is rigor kill and drill ???????????? I would bet if you ask any educator they would disagree with that theory.

"kill and drill" is not a horrible idea. The kids aren't being killed. It is just important that they get the basic facts down. That applies to sports and academics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you don't mind revealing just a little info, what does your basic run-of-the-mill mathematician do in 2009?

they try to come up with new pricing models for MBS/CDO/CDS to save Wall St.

Ahh, that makes sense. Thanks.

[Anonymous]

You can't be successful at math without doing some memorizing. In the end, the most efficient way to do 6*6=36 is to memorize it. Math at these schools - especially those with the Everyday Math program - is now a total joke. At our child's school, they don't even teach them the traditional ways of adding and subtracting (carrying, borrowing) until 4th grade. I can only hope it gets better when the kids get out of elementary school. No wonder all our PhD mathematics programs are full of foreign students!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You can't be successful at math without doing some memorizing. In the end, the most efficient way to do 6*6=36 is to memorize it. Math at these schools - especially those with the Everyday Math program - is now a total joke. At our child's school, they don't even teach them the traditional ways of adding and subtracting (carrying, borrowing) until 4th grade. I can only hope it gets better when the kids get out of elementary school. No wonder all our PhD mathematics programs are full of foreign students!

Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You can't be successful at math without doing some memorizing. In the end, the most efficient way to do 6*6=36 is to memorize it. Math at these schools - especially those with the Everyday Math program - is now a total joke. At our child's school, they don't even teach them the traditional ways of adding and subtracting (carrying, borrowing) until 4th grade. I can only hope it gets better when the kids get out of elementary school. No wonder all our PhD mathematics programs are full of foreign students!

I know that many many people are dissatisfied with EDM, but I don't really understand what they prefer. I have nothing against memorization of basic facts per se, but surely it doesn't take that much time? Shouldn't all children be able to learn more than 7*7 = 49?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You can't be successful at math without doing some memorizing. In the end, the most efficient way to do 6*6=36 is to memorize it. Math at these schools - especially those with the Everyday Math program - is now a total joke. At our child's school, they don't even teach them the traditional ways of adding and subtracting (carrying, borrowing) until 4th grade. I can only hope it gets better when the kids get out of elementary school. No wonder all our PhD mathematics programs are full of foreign students!

A bright kid does not need much time to memorize the relevant math facts. His or her time is much better spent concentrating on more abstract concepts, which EDM allows. So rather than dumb down the program to accommodate the slower kids schools should provide more differentiated instruction, allowing the some kids to go faster, and the slower kids to do more drills. And, as someone who has done graduate math, I can assure you that memorizing math facts is not the path to a PhD in math. Might be useful to a kid who plans to work in a vegetable market, though.