Frustrated with Quality of Math at Beauvoir?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a current Beauvoir parent and I agree with 15:45. I have two kids there, one in 3rd and one in K. My third grader's mathematical comprehension astounds me. However, she has not "memorized" all of her multiplication tables (facts). This does not concern me or my husband who is a middle school algebra teacher in MC. He is of the philosophy that memorization of math facts is the lowest form of learning. She will know them by heart one day. What impresses us more is that she can dissect a math problem and can think her way through almost any elementary math problem. I credit Everyday/Chicago math for that. Think about it, these kids will eventually get their addition and multiplication facts. Almost anyone can memorize them. I guess I could drill her and make sure that she knows them but I would rather her understanding be concrete than spend time drilling math facts into her memory. Just my humble opinion.

I am a mathematician, and I am curious about your husbands statement. Ask him if he thinks that those who memorize facts, do not also understand. I would love to know what is so wrong with memorization?

Not the original poster but an educator who also teaches mathematics. I understand the statement. Memorization is the ability to restate information. If children can tell you that 6 X 3 = 18 but are not able to connect this understanding to repeated addition or picture representations they do not understand the concept of multiplication. This is often the case in mathematics; students can tell you the formula (because they have memorized it )but do not have an understanding why the formula works. The lack of mathematical understanding causes great difficult for students as they matriculate to more difficult mathematics courses.

Just food for thought . . . When students are given a problem such as 6 X 5 they automatically say 30. The = sign does not necessarily call for a solution it means balance. So students could write 6 X 5 = 10 + 10 + 10 or 40 - 10. If students do not have the mathematical understanding that the = sign means balance this will effect them when they take courses such as algebra. This is the problem with memorization.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a current Beauvoir parent and I agree with 15:45. I have two kids there, one in 3rd and one in K. My third grader's mathematical comprehension astounds me. However, she has not "memorized" all of her multiplication tables (facts). This does not concern me or my husband who is a middle school algebra teacher in MC. He is of the philosophy that memorization of math facts is the lowest form of learning. She will know them by heart one day. What impresses us more is that she can dissect a math problem and can think her way through almost any elementary math problem. I credit Everyday/Chicago math for that. Think about it, these kids will eventually get their addition and multiplication facts. Almost anyone can memorize them. I guess I could drill her and make sure that she knows them but I would rather her understanding be concrete than spend time drilling math facts into her memory. Just my humble opinion.

I am a mathematician, and I am curious about your husbands statement. Ask him if he thinks that those who memorize facts, do not also understand. I would love to know what is so wrong with memorization?

Not the original poster but an educator who also teaches mathematics. I understand the statement. Memorization is the ability to restate information. If children can tell you that 6 X 3 = 18 but are not able to connect this understanding to repeated addition or picture representations they do not understand the concept of multiplication. This is often the case in mathematics; students can tell you the formula (because they have memorized it )but do not have an understanding why the formula works. The lack of mathematical understanding causes great difficult for students as they matriculate to more difficult mathematics courses.

Just food for thought . . . When students are given a problem such as 6 X 5 they automatically say 30. The = sign does not necessarily call for a solution it means balance. So students could write 6 X 5 = 10 + 10 + 10 or 40 - 10. If students do not have the mathematical understanding that the = sign means balance this will effect them when they take courses such as algebra. This is the problem with memorization.

Do you have any studies to back that up? I am curious because I don't believe that anyone has been able to show that the old school approach is bad. I also think that when children memorize, MOST of them are indeed also understanding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do Montessori schools teach math?

TONS of repetition, TONS of hands on with manipulatives. Basics covered very well.

Sounds like a terrific recipe for boredom.

[Anonymous]

(Not saying it doesn't work--I've never looked into the matter.)

[Anonymous]

Thank you 17:31. My husband explained it to me in a similar manner. I was not saying that someone who can regergertate memorized facts does not understand them. My point was only that understanding the concepts is more important than memorizing facts and I believe that is what Beauvoir focuses on. My husband was amazed that my 3rd grader could understand some of the alegebra concepts that he teaches to his middle schoolers in MC. And it is because she gets the concepts. So we do not stress about her memorizing her multiplication tables and we allow her to spend her time at home reading, writing and playing with her siblings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a current Beauvoir parent and I agree with 15:45. I have two kids there, one in 3rd and one in K. My third grader's mathematical comprehension astounds me. However, she has not "memorized" all of her multiplication tables (facts). This does not concern me or my husband who is a middle school algebra teacher in MC. He is of the philosophy that memorization of math facts is the lowest form of learning. She will know them by heart one day. What impresses us more is that she can dissect a math problem and can think her way through almost any elementary math problem. I credit Everyday/Chicago math for that. Think about it, these kids will eventually get their addition and multiplication facts. Almost anyone can memorize them. I guess I could drill her and make sure that she knows them but I would rather her understanding be concrete than spend time drilling math facts into her memory. Just my humble opinion.

I am a mathematician, and I am curious about your husbands statement. Ask him if he thinks that those who memorize facts, do not also understand. I would love to know what is so wrong with memorization?

Not the original poster but an educator who also teaches mathematics. I understand the statement. Memorization is the ability to restate information. If children can tell you that 6 X 3 = 18 but are not able to connect this understanding to repeated addition or picture representations they do not understand the concept of multiplication. This is often the case in mathematics; students can tell you the formula (because they have memorized it )but do not have an understanding why the formula works. The lack of mathematical understanding causes great difficult for students as they matriculate to more difficult mathematics courses.

Just food for thought . . . When students are given a problem such as 6 X 5 they automatically say 30. The = sign does not necessarily call for a solution it means balance. So students could write 6 X 5 = 10 + 10 + 10 or 40 - 10. If students do not have the mathematical understanding that the = sign means balance this will effect them when they take courses such as algebra. This is the problem with memorization.

Do you have any studies to back that up? I am curious because I don't believe that anyone has been able to show that the old school approach is bad. I also think that when children memorize, MOST of them are indeed also understanding.

Sorry I have no research to back this up. Like I said before I am an educator and can only speak from experience. Do I want my students to know there facts yes but more importantly I want them to understand the big ideas of mathematics. Many students are missing these big ideas. For example students have difficult understanding the connection between the area formula for a triangle and a square.

Final thought . . . Memorization is not good in isolation for any subject matter.

[Anonymous]

[

Do you have any studies to back that up? I am curious because I don't believe that anyone has been able to show that the old school approach is bad. I also think that when children memorize, MOST of them are indeed also understanding.


Link to some research . . . Still searching for more.

http://www.edutopia.org/measuring-what-counts-memorization-versus-understanding

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a current Beauvoir parent and I agree with 15:45. I have two kids there, one in 3rd and one in K. My third grader's mathematical comprehension astounds me. However, she has not "memorized" all of her multiplication tables (facts). This does not concern me or my husband who is a middle school algebra teacher in MC. He is of the philosophy that memorization of math facts is the lowest form of learning. She will know them by heart one day. What impresses us more is that she can dissect a math problem and can think her way through almost any elementary math problem. I credit Everyday/Chicago math for that. Think about it, these kids will eventually get their addition and multiplication facts. Almost anyone can memorize them. I guess I could drill her and make sure that she knows them but I would rather her understanding be concrete than spend time drilling math facts into her memory. Just my humble opinion.

I am a mathematician, and I am curious about your husbands statement. Ask him if he thinks that those who memorize facts, do not also understand. I would love to know what is so wrong with memorization?

Not the original poster but an educator who also teaches mathematics. I understand the statement. Memorization is the ability to restate information. If children can tell you that 6 X 3 = 18 but are not able to connect this understanding to repeated addition or picture representations they do not understand the concept of multiplication. This is often the case in mathematics; students can tell you the formula (because they have memorized it )but do not have an understanding why the formula works. The lack of mathematical understanding causes great difficult for students as they matriculate to more difficult mathematics courses.

Just food for thought . . . When students are given a problem such as 6 X 5 they automatically say 30. The = sign does not necessarily call for a solution it means balance. So students could write 6 X 5 = 10 + 10 + 10 or 40 - 10. If students do not have the mathematical understanding that the = sign means balance this will effect them when they take courses such as algebra. This is the problem with memorization.

Do you have any studies to back that up? I am curious because I don't believe that anyone has been able to show that the old school approach is bad. I also think that when children memorize, MOST of them are indeed also understanding.

Sorry I have no research to back this up. Like I said before I am an educator and can only speak from experience. Do I want my students to know there facts yes but more importantly I want them to understand the big ideas of mathematics. Many students are missing these big ideas. For example students have difficult understanding the connection between the area formula for a triangle and a square.

Final thought . . . Memorization is not good in isolation for any subject matter.

I am not saying just memorize, but I do notice that there is this anti-memorization group in the US. I have tutored many a child here in math, and I notice that because they have not been "drilled" with the basics, esp. multiplication, they can't move with speed through certain problems. Then it takes them FOREVER to get through one problem, then they can't practice many, then they don't get enough practice, and so on. Even with calculators, they press the wrong number, and they can't even see why they were way off because the knowledge is not there. Lot of people can memorize and understand, they are not exclusive approaches.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do Montessori schools teach math?

TONS of repetition, TONS of hands on with manipulatives. Basics covered very well.

You can say the same thing about the suburban public schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do Montessori schools teach math?

TONS of repetition, TONS of hands on with manipulatives. Basics covered very well.

You can say the same thing about the suburban public schools.

There is nothing wrong with the repetition. The kids work at their own pace.

[Anonymous]

I am not saying just memorize, but I do notice that there is this anti-memorization group in the US. I have tutored many a child here in math, and I notice that because they have not been "drilled" with the basics, esp. multiplication, they can't move with speed through certain problems. Then it takes them FOREVER to get through one problem, then they can't practice many, then they don't get enough practice, and so on. Even with calculators, they press the wrong number, and they can't even see why they were way off because the knowledge is not there. Lot of people can memorize and understand, they are not exclusive approaches.


Please mathematician I am not trying to debate this with you. We are saying the same thing. . . Could students use a bit more memorization yes but utilizing that instructional strategy in isolation would create a huge problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I am not saying just memorize, but I do notice that there is this anti-memorization group in the US. I have tutored many a child here in math, and I notice that because they have not been "drilled" with the basics, esp. multiplication, they can't move with speed through certain problems. Then it takes them FOREVER to get through one problem, then they can't practice many, then they don't get enough practice, and so on. Even with calculators, they press the wrong number, and they can't even see why they were way off because the knowledge is not there. Lot of people can memorize and understand, they are not exclusive approaches.

Please mathematician I am not trying to debate this with you. We are saying the same thing. . . Could students use a bit more memorization yes but utilizing that instructional strategy in isolation would create a huge problem.

Chicago math uses little (not enough) memorization.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I am not saying just memorize, but I do notice that there is this anti-memorization group in the US. I have tutored many a child here in math, and I notice that because they have not been "drilled" with the basics, esp. multiplication, they can't move with speed through certain problems. Then it takes them FOREVER to get through one problem, then they can't practice many, then they don't get enough practice, and so on. Even with calculators, they press the wrong number, and they can't even see why they were way off because the knowledge is not there. Lot of people can memorize and understand, they are not exclusive approaches.

Please mathematician I am not trying to debate this with you. We are saying the same thing. . . Could students use a bit more memorization yes but utilizing that instructional strategy in isolation would create a huge problem.

Chicago math uses little (not enough) memorization.


Take it up with the school . . .

[Anonymous]

This is a long-standing fight and its called the Math wars. Lefties want conceptual and less memorization while cons want embrace the driill approach. Most fair and balanced analysis and research suggests that we need to maintain a base level of kill and drill and add conceptual. One of the reasons our students lag in international math and science achievement is because our math courses arent rigorous enough

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a long-standing fight and its called the Math wars. Lefties want conceptual and less memorization while cons want embrace the driill approach. Most fair and balanced analysis and research suggests that we need to maintain a base level of kill and drill and add conceptual. One of the reasons our students lag in international math and science achievement is because our math courses arent rigorous enough

Is rigor kill and drill ???????????? I would bet if you ask any educator they would disagree with that theory.