The case for "low rigor" at highly competitive private lower schools?

[Anonymous]

8:38, I've broken your post down into a list of characteristics you ascribe to public vs private school students. According to you ...

A public schools ...
"standardized tests are an afterthought. It's pretty easy for those kids to learn enough to pass ..."
"math is more advanced than the norm in private school around here"
"English, History, and Science classes are very detailed ..."
"kids have to learn to speak clearly and quickly"
children are "self-starters"
children are "not intimidated"

By contrast, at private schools ...
"math is [less] advanced"
English, History, and Science classes are less detailed than public school
children need "lots of hand-holding"
children need "lots of free-flowing class discussion time"
"kids [do not] have to learn to speak clearly and quickly" [the contrast you draw against public school]
children are not "self-starters"
children are intimidated by large groups
children need small classes
children would rather do art than math/science
children "tend to sit in the back and doodle"
"not more rigorous"

Perhaps these characteristics describe your children in public/private, but they don't describe mine. I'll let other private school parents comment on whether your list of characteristics accurately describe their children.

[Anonymous]

10:39 again. Thanks for clarifying 8:38 that you were not purporting to describe all kids in private or all kids in public, but just your two kids. I did not see your last post before mine. Your original post struck me as much more broad-brush, so I'm glad you clarified. Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP, that is absolutely not true about kids coming from advanced academic programs in NoVA and MoCo. Many if these kids score 97-100% on their SSATs to get into private schools and have very well rounded experience in language arts, PowerPoint, making presentations. Yes there are probably some kids accepted from less rigorous public schools but those aren't the whole picture. And those kids catch up fast.

That may be true in your experience - I don't know the statistics. I am only letting the OP know my own experience and the discussions I've had with parents of public school kids who start in 9th grade at my kids' school. The parents regularly lament that their kids are behind in writing and analytical skills and need additional help because they simply were not taught that well in these areas. Also, being able to get a good grade on a test like the SSAT does not necessarily indicate whether that kid would be able to write a comprehensive piece arguing a point of view. And, maybe the point about the presentations is true. Public school kids are required to give presentations - I'll give you that. However, the writing and analysis part is quite accurate. I'm sorry, but I've read the work coming from the kids' of my friends who are in public school and it doesn't come nearly close to my DD's ability to write a great piece - and she's simply an average student in her English class. Why do you think all colleges have Freshman Writing Seminars? It's because the average American kid going to a public school doesn't get very good, consistent instruction in writing. It hurts to hear and I certainly hope things get better, but it is cause for concern.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, that is absolutely not true about kids coming from advanced academic programs in NoVA and MoCo. Many if these kids score 97-100% on their SSATs to get into private schools and have very well rounded experience in language arts, PowerPoint, making presentations. Yes there are probably some kids accepted from less rigorous public schools but those aren't the whole picture. And those kids catch up fast.

That may be true in your experience - I don't know the statistics. I am only letting the OP know my own experience and the discussions I've had with parents of public school kids who start in 9th grade at my kids' school. The parents regularly lament that their kids are behind in writing and analytical skills and need additional help because they simply were not taught that well in these areas. Also, being able to get a good grade on a test like the SSAT does not necessarily indicate whether that kid would be able to write a comprehensive piece arguing a point of view. And, maybe the point about the presentations is true. Public school kids are required to give presentations - I'll give you that. However, the writing and analysis part is quite accurate. I'm sorry, but I've read the work coming from the kids' of my friends who are in public school and it doesn't come nearly close to my DD's ability to write a great piece - and she's simply an average student in her English class. Why do you think all colleges have Freshman Writing Seminars? It's because the average American kid going to a public school doesn't get very good, consistent instruction in writing. It hurts to hear and I certainly hope things get better, but it is cause for concern.

Why are you reading the school assignments of your friends kids? That seems really unusual. I don't even read the high school assignments of my own kid - it's his work to do, not mine. I can't imaging sending his work to other parents for review. How many of these assignments are you reading and what's the context that this would come up?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, that is absolutely not true about kids coming from advanced academic programs in NoVA and MoCo. Many if these kids score 97-100% on their SSATs to get into private schools and have very well rounded experience in language arts, PowerPoint, making presentations. Yes there are probably some kids accepted from less rigorous public schools but those aren't the whole picture. And those kids catch up fast.

That may be true in your experience - I don't know the statistics. I am only letting the OP know my own experience and the discussions I've had with parents of public school kids who start in 9th grade at my kids' school. The parents regularly lament that their kids are behind in writing and analytical skills and need additional help because they simply were not taught that well in these areas. Also, being able to get a good grade on a test like the SSAT does not necessarily indicate whether that kid would be able to write a comprehensive piece arguing a point of view. And, maybe the point about the presentations is true. Public school kids are required to give presentations - I'll give you that. However, the writing and analysis part is quite accurate. I'm sorry, but I've read the work coming from the kids' of my friends who are in public school and it doesn't come nearly close to my DD's ability to write a great piece - and she's simply an average student in her English class. Why do you think all colleges have Freshman Writing Seminars? It's because the average American kid going to a public school doesn't get very good, consistent instruction in writing. It hurts to hear and I certainly hope things get better, but it is cause for concern.

Why are you reading the school assignments of your friends kids? That seems really unusual. I don't even read the high school assignments of my own kid - it's his work to do, not mine. I can't imaging sending his work to other parents for review. How many of these assignments are you reading and what's the context that this would come up?

I tutor kids and happen to help out some of the kids of friends.

[Anonymous]

Then talk about their work as being subpar? Do you have professional issues with that?

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thanks for the thoughtful responses. I'm not a troll, but I am at least a little self-critical insofar as I am worrying about my child's education, rather than the many other substantial problems around town / the world.

Anyway, We are already committed, because we really like the school, works well for our location, etc., but we still have to figure out at least two things.

First, do we look for supplemental math instruction, if we would like our children to have the ability to choose careers that require lots of analytic work; second, to the extent parents can influence the direction of the school (presumably there are other threads on this), are we better telling the administration 'Gee, you know best' or 'Gee, I wonder if the kids would be better off with more work.'

04:02, you suggest that what is characterized to me as 'low rigor' is actually evidence-based - I would love if you could point me to the evidence (e.g., scholarly work). There are of course more than a dozen schools of education at which folks study this full-time, but it doesn't really seem like there is much consensus.

I wonder if math is relatively better in public schools, because it is less labor-intensive to teach/grade, vs. compared to writing or presentation skills.

[Anonymous]

OP, I might suggest that you first at least see how the school does with your children, before you start proposing changes. For starters, you'll be (correctly) labeled a PITA if you start asking for changes without any experience. Second, you might find you like what the school does.

What I've found with our children's school is that the teachers are really good at meeting each individual where she is, and tailoring their approach to each child. For example, a child who shows an interest and/or aptitude in math (or science, or reading, or theater, or any other subject) is encouraged to push further in that subject. The level of rigor is dialed in to the current skill set of each individual child. I think this is one spot the favorable student-teacher ratio in the classroom pays benefits.

Maybe you're right that your school would benefit from a different approach, or maybe not. But maybe you should at least take in the situation and get informed before you start pressing for changes.

[Anonymous]

I work at a private school and yes school students spend more time everyday on academics in public school. In private they spend more hours on specials. That does not mean one is better than the other it just means you have to choose. And yes public school children come in for middle school at a much higher level than our students but again is that what you are looking for or perhaps a more well rounded child. It is a choice.

[Anonymous]

OP to 15:54, absolutely agree that I should collect more
information. Hence this thread. And thanks for sharing your experience.

And of course we think we will like the school better than alternatives-we chose it.

But even after a year or two at the school, we will only be familiar with that school, and not what others are doing. So forums like this (which grant cover of anonymity) are a somewhat reasonable way to try to gather info.

[Anonymous]

I think it's hilarious that all of these parents are paying thousands upon thousands of dollars for low rigor.

[Anonymous]

Do you people even know that the word "rigor" means stiffness, or an inability to bend? If that's what you want in a school and what you feel you are getting, I feel sorry for you.

[Anonymous]

Their parents can't stand the thought of seeing them fail, especially when they are paying all this money?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you people even know that the word "rigor" means stiffness, or an inability to bend? If that's what you want in a school and what you feel you are getting, I feel sorry for you.

No. Sorry but you're wrong. You have just described inflexible. We all know what rigor means. The academically challenging classes. That's why the public school kids are ahead. They take challenging classes.

[Anonymous]

I want to engage in the intellectual debate but just can't get past "blessed buttercup"!