Little Ivies?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:12:13 I have no idea what you're talking about vis-a-vis Wash U. You have misconstrued my post.

Want to take another stab at it, then? I read you to be taking particular umbrage at the thought that some Ivy grads consider their schools a cut above Wash. U. and a few other very selective schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thought Wesleyan , Williams & Amherst have been known as the Little Three for decades. What's the point of arguing which school incrementally better, when all offer slightly different experiences, which will be better for different people for different reasons.

Whether Wesleyan is on a par with Wms and Amherst can be debated, but what is not debatable is that Wesleyan over the past 10 years has become a very popular "it" school. Some actually attribute it to the frequent Wesleyan references on the show "How I Met Your Mother"! Oh, brother!

Wesleyan is on par with Amherst and Williams academically. but it attracts different types. Wesleyan is more liberal/artsy/hipster, while A and W are more preppy/athletic. Wesleyan's population is almost double, so it can let in more people and thus its numbers might be less selective, which places it a few rungs lower on US News.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A 2000 SAT will be a stretch for little ivies without athletic or other recruiting. My DC only applied to one of them because DC preferred larger schools. 2200 SAT, high GPA, good resume. Was denied. Several friends who got into very selective schools with similar profiles were also denied. I think you need to be more realistic unless scores go up (or you look at score optional schools). ED is also a huge factor for the SLACs

That SAT is going to be a problem unless he has other things...?

[Anonymous]

Correct. Athletic recruits are held to a lower standard, even in the Ivies. The more they want you, the lower they will persuade the admissions office to go. (Not the PP.)

14:10 That is not what I meant in the least. I was referring to the discussion about Ivy versus SLAC and that it can take several forms including Ivy versus whatever you want to call Wash U/Chicago/Northwestern/et alia and that as a culture we've become obsession with Ivies -- I wasn't thinking of Ivy alum, I was referring to the current state of Ivy aspirants. I did make a separate point about Ivy arrogance. More than once I've sat in a room full of Ivy alum who must have forgotten I didn't go to school with them. It wasn't pretty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Correct. Athletic recruits are held to a lower standard, even in the Ivies. The more they want you, the lower they will persuade the admissions office to go. (Not the PP.)

14:10 That is not what I meant in the least. I was referring to the discussion about Ivy versus SLAC and that it can take several forms including Ivy versus whatever you want to call Wash U/Chicago/Northwestern/et alia and that as a culture we've become obsession with Ivies -- I wasn't thinking of Ivy alum, I was referring to the current state of Ivy aspirants. I did make a separate point about Ivy arrogance. More than once I've sat in a room full of Ivy alum who must have forgotten I didn't go to school with them. It wasn't pretty.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't see any obsession with Ivies as "a culture." I see a certain sub-culture, largely Asian-American, that places a very high and unapologetic premium on kids getting into marquee schools, including but not limited to Ivies. Most people are not so laser-focused, nor should they be. There are lots of great schools out there, SLACs among them.

And the only time I sit in rooms full of Ivy alums are at occasional reunions, and we're just getting older, more boring, and more set in our ways as we age, like most everyone else.

[Anonymous]

I know many parents who want their children to get into Ivies. Several are obsessed, it's a real shame. I also have friends who pretended not to be Ivy obsessed but whose children ended up applying to several Ivies, even though their child's chances for admission were low. The media contributes, with stories about Ivy accepts every spring.

Just curious: Have you been through this with a child or with children, this being the college application process?

As for sitting in rooms with Ivy alum, your experience is yours, and mine is mine. Many of my Ivy friends are anti-snobs, I've seen the range.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know many parents who want their children to get into Ivies. Several are obsessed, it's a real shame. I also have friends who pretended not to be Ivy obsessed but whose children ended up applying to several Ivies, even though their child's chances for admission were low. The media contributes, with stories about Ivy accepts every spring.

Just curious: Have you been through this with a child or with children, this being the college application process?

As for sitting in rooms with Ivy alum, your experience is yours, and mine is mine. Many of my Ivy friends are anti-snobs, I've seen the range.

Yes. It was not Ivy-focused.

Honestly, no point in prolonging this. The more we dissect what Ivy grads are like, or not like, the harder it becomes to maintain a credible position here that it's not totally identity-defining. Please have the final say.

[Anonymous]

WILLIAMS 17% 2120 SAT
HAMILTON COLLEGE 29% 1997 SAT
CONN COLLEGE 36% 2000 SAT
AMHERST 14% 2060 SAT
BOWDOIN 18% 1989 SAT
TRINITY 36% 1970 SAT
BATES 27% 1960 SAT
WESLEYAN 24% 2070 SAT

These are all small schools 1600-2500 students for the most part. All in small New England towns, some are better than others, is this what interests your son? Most of student life takes place on these campuses. Some of the towns, like those that service Hamilton and Weslyean feel rather depressed. Williams is extremely isolated and in a very small town with one street that is "the main drag". While this kind of living is for some it is most certainly not for others. Hope you are planning an extensive visit to all of the schools that are considerations.

Some recent stats...obviously compared to colleges by and large all of these acceptance rates are lower than average and all the SAT scores are "up there"....start with this data as this could help your son or daughter size them up and see which might be a good fit. The NESCAC is super competitive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son is a good solid student cracked just over 2000 on his SAT (2060) but was hoping to be in the 2100-2200 mark. Has a 31 on the ACT. He will take it again but this seems to be his range. He had his heart set on a particular ivy but both his adviser and he do not see it happening. He has talked to him at length about the little Ivies (adviser at school is originally from NY) so he is very familiar with those schools. We are not as familiar with them however, but he said they are prestigious carry a lot of weight after graduation and are going to give him that quintessential New England college experience he is seeking. Some schools he has suggested are Williams, Wesleyan, CT. College, Amherst, Hamilton and Bowdoin. What do you think? Certainly they do not have the cache of an ivy but would you say are more prestigious than a good top university? As an example UNC, Wake Forest, etc.....he is confused and so are we! Any input would be great, thank you.

except for Williams with a 2060 (and if he can bring it up even better) I think your son has a good chance at at least a handful of those schools ESPECIALLY if he applies ED. That will give him a huge boost. We recently did the rounds went to Williams, Trinity, CT. College, Wesleyan and Amherst. He felt Williams was too removed and too in the middle of nowhere (not to say he could get in he has a 2160) and ironically before visiting he was very excited about Williams but after lost much of the enthusiasm. The other four he liked a lot, but we have a round 2 and round 3 (in June) to still finish. He is really hoping to be able to narrow it down to just one that he loves so he can apply ED. He knows he wants small, ideally New England and selective. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Some schools he has suggested are Williams, Wesleyan, CT. College, Amherst, Hamilton and Bowdoin. What do you think? Certainly they do not have the cache of an ivy but would you say are more prestigious than a good top university? As an example UNC, Wake Forest, etc.....he is confused and so are we! Any input would be great, thank you.

These are all excellent schools that will give him a great education, that are well respected by graduate programs, that will give him a network of smart peers and close relationships with mentoring faculty, and are plenty "prestigious." I don't know that they are more or less "prestigious" than other well respected universities (like UNC and such), but it seems like he's more interested in going to a smaller school and having the liberal arts school experience and a lot about college is finding the right fit where someone will thrive. At a large university like UNC, sometimes it is easy for undergraduates to get lost in the shuffle, and that won't happen at a liberal arts college. I don't think you should worry about his opportunities in the future coming out of someplace like Amherst Wesleyan, Williams, or Bowdoin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:WILLIAMS 17% 2120 SAT
HAMILTON COLLEGE 29% 1997 SAT
CONN COLLEGE 36% 2000 SAT
AMHERST 14% 2060 SAT
BOWDOIN 18% 1989 SAT
TRINITY 36% 1970 SAT
BATES 27% 1960 SAT
WESLEYAN 24% 2070 SAT

These are all small schools 1600-2500 students for the most part. All in small New England towns, some are better than others, is this what interests your son? Most of student life takes place on these campuses. Some of the towns, like those that service Hamilton and Weslyean feel rather depressed. Williams is extremely isolated and in a very small town with one street that is "the main drag". While this kind of living is for some it is most certainly not for others. Hope you are planning an extensive visit to all of the schools that are considerations.

Some recent stats...obviously compared to colleges by and large all of these acceptance rates are lower than average and all the SAT scores are "up there"....start with this data as this could help your son or daughter size them up and see which might be a good fit. The NESCAC is super competitive.

Those SATs look quite low. Other data I've seen shows places like Amherst, Bowdoin and Wesleyan in the 2150-2190 range. And in our experience the averages are misleading- kids from the suburbs in this area who aren't being recruited really need to be in the top quartile of scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WILLIAMS 17% 2120 SAT
HAMILTON COLLEGE 29% 1997 SAT
CONN COLLEGE 36% 2000 SAT
AMHERST 14% 2060 SAT
BOWDOIN 18% 1989 SAT
TRINITY 36% 1970 SAT
BATES 27% 1960 SAT
WESLEYAN 24% 2070 SAT

These are all small schools 1600-2500 students for the most part. All in small New England towns, some are better than others, is this what interests your son? Most of student life takes place on these campuses. Some of the towns, like those that service Hamilton and Weslyean feel rather depressed. Williams is extremely isolated and in a very small town with one street that is "the main drag". While this kind of living is for some it is most certainly not for others. Hope you are planning an extensive visit to all of the schools that are considerations.

Some recent stats...obviously compared to colleges by and large all of these acceptance rates are lower than average and all the SAT scores are "up there"....start with this data as this could help your son or daughter size them up and see which might be a good fit. The NESCAC is super competitive.

Those SATs look quite low. Other data I've seen shows places like Amherst, Bowdoin and Wesleyan in the 2150-2190 range. And in our experience the averages are misleading- kids from the suburbs in this area who aren't being recruited really need to be in the top quartile of scores.

+1

[Anonymous]

These were taken off a college database for 2013. They are bear in mind, averages. But gives you an idea of where these schools fall...all WELL above the average school in this country, highly selective to say the least.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:WILLIAMS 17% 2120 SAT
HAMILTON COLLEGE 29% 1997 SAT
CONN COLLEGE 36% 2000 SAT
AMHERST 14% 2060 SAT
BOWDOIN 18% 1989 SAT
TRINITY 36% 1970 SAT
BATES 27% 1960 SAT
WESLEYAN 24% 2070 SAT

These are all small schools 1600-2500 students for the most part. All in small New England towns, some are better than others, is this what interests your son? Most of student life takes place on these campuses. Some of the towns, like those that service Hamilton and Weslyean feel rather depressed. Williams is extremely isolated and in a very small town with one street that is "the main drag". While this kind of living is for some it is most certainly not for others. Hope you are planning an extensive visit to all of the schools that are considerations.

Some recent stats...obviously compared to colleges by and large all of these acceptance rates are lower than average and all the SAT scores are "up there"....start with this data as this could help your son or daughter size them up and see which might be a good fit. The NESCAC is super competitive.

Sort if a continuation of the private high school experience, for those not interested in the university experience.

[Anonymous]

Ivy League grad here, who in retrospect (or even during college) wished I had gone to a small liberal arts school like Amherst or Williams - the top tier liberal arts schools are as hard to get into as the Ivies often, but they feature a different type of environment and experiences. PLEASE do not ever use the term "little Ivies" again - it is pathetic and a disservice to the high caliber small liberal arts schools.

There is an actual list of what schools are in the Ivy League, the same way there is a list of which schools are in the Big 10. It's just a classification.

Instead maybe focus on the best fit for the personality and interests of your kid - would he thrive at a big, medium or small sized school - urban or rural or in between, etc. what other features and 'personalities' of the school match with your kid's interests. Apply to some 'reach' schools, some that match your kid's score levels and some 'safety' schools.