Is it time to move on from the private school? We feel like we're wasting our money.

[Anonymous]

I agree with the PPs just above and have been thinking this as I have been reading this post over the last couple of days. My parents used a wake up call for me, and it worked really well. But the year I goofed off was my freshman year in college. I was at a very highly ranked private liberal arts college, and they made me attend a semester at the local university where all the kids from my public HS went when they couldn't get in anywhere else. My oldest child is 6, so I can't say for sure even from personal experience, but I don't think an 8 or 9 year old has the maturity to get the lesson. Not sure about the other poster's middle schooler - maybe.

[Anonymous]

threaten boarding school, not public...

[Anonymous]

OP here. While I'll appeciate the perspective of the last several posts, I don't think I am asking too much of a 3rd grader to complete homework, listen/learn/contribute in class, take school seriously, have an appreciation for what things in life cost, and treat parents with regard and respect. These are formative years. Bad habits and attitudes developed now sustain later. DC is more than capable (intellectually) of doing the work. I am not asking for straight A's or a veledictorian in the making. I'm asking that my child have a sense of work ethic, that DC strive to always give a best effort in all endeavors (academic and non-academic). This concept seems to be crystal clear in extracurricular activities that are important to DC.

[Anonymous]

Then threaten those extracurriculars?

[Anonymous]

OP, I haven't experienced what you are, because my son's not in private school. But there are two books I'd recommend, if you are interested, about children and their attitudes of entitlement, etc., if you are interested. Entitlement isn't the main focus of either book, but they have a lot of good points about it. One is "Raising Resilient Children," and the other is "Bringing up Geeks." The former helps particularly with patterns of communication between parents and children that might be hindering your getting at your child's real issue (meaning, is he really feeling a sense of entitlement, or is he putting on airs he sees other kids do? or is he trying to act all big and mighty when inside he's feeling a big down?)

Other than that, if a school directly conflicts with your family values, then I definitely would consider a change. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

If you are looking for a school that fosters a work ethic and not a sense of entitlement, I'm not sure you will find that at your local public school, although you might.

A charter school, such as the KIPP academy, might be a better bet, However, in the DC area I am not finding any that serve 4th grade.

http://www.kippdc.org/program

The Five Pillars

KIPP Schools share a core set of operating principles known as the Five Pillars:

High Expectations.

KIPP Schools have clearly defined and measurable high expectations for academic achievement and conduct that make no excuses based on the students' backgrounds. Students, parents, teachers, and staff create and reinforce a culture of achievement and support through a range of formal and informal rewards and consequences for academic performance and behavior.

Choice & Commitment.
Students, their parents, and the faculty of each KIPP School choose to participate in the program. No one is assigned or forced to attend these schools. Everyone must make and uphold a commitment to the school and to each other to put in the time and effort required to achieve success.

More Time.
KIPP Schools know that there are no shortcuts when it comes to success in academics and life. With an extended school day, week, and year, students have more time in the classroom to acquire the academic knowledge and skills that will prepare them for competitive high schools and colleges, as well as more opportunities to engage in diverse extracurricular experiences.

Power to Lead.
The principals of KIPP Schools are effective academic and organizational leaders who understand that great schools require great School Leaders. They have control over their school budget and personnel. They are free to swiftly move dollars or make staffing changes, allowing them maximum effectiveness in helping students learn.

Focus on Results.
KIPP Schools relentlessly focus on high student performance on standardized tests and other objective measures. Just as there are no shortcuts, there are no excuses. Students are expected to achieve a level of academic performance that will enable them to succeed at the nation's best high schools and colleges.

[Anonymous]

"I don't think I am asking too much of a 3rd grader to complete homework, listen/learn/contribute in class, take school seriously, have an appreciation for what things in life cost, and treat parents with regard and respect. "

OP, I agree with you here. I have a 4th grader, a kindergartener and a toddler. Both of my school aged kids are really good at some subjects and really struggle with others. Sadly, for the first time this year, I got risk of failure notices for each. When I talked to their respective teachers, the issues were pretty simple - not paying attention, not contributing, and not taking the subject seriously. Now, I think these problems are rooted in wanting to avoid difficult subjects. Anyway, I sat them both down separately and told them of my expectations. They understood and in the two weeks since, the reports that I got from the teachers is that they are both now really applying themselves.

Another thing about 3rd grade is that at least in our school (MCPS), by third grade, kids are being groomed to be independent with management of their homework and by fourth, we parents are told to keep out of it unless they need help understanding the materials. I never thought my oldest could do it, but I adopted the expectation of the school and I can't tell you how pleasantly surprised I am that he met and exceeded the expectation.

As far as the public and private, I did move my oldest from private to public. I just wasn't seeing the advantages. I could tell you all the ways my son is exceptional, but in reality, I believed that public school would more than meet his needs. So, I took the money I saved and enrolled in the Maryland prepaid tuition program and almost have his college education paid off. I feel really good about my decision knowing my son and my family situation.

Good luck in making your decision.

[Anonymous]

Don't take away anything the child excels in. That will only further frustrate your goal. Keep reinforcing things he does well to help build self-confidence. Take it away and it could have an opposite effect and actually lead to less effort in school and worse grades.

Why not put a reward system in place for the times he studies well? If he does his 1/2 - 1 hour (?) of homework each night without complaint, praise him, and give him a week's end reward if he does it all five nights. I'd focus on healthy study habits rather than the end result (grades), and see what happens.

Also, if it's a snotty/entitlement thing, if you don't already, you might want to incorporate some community service work into your family routine, if you don't already. Work with him to pack up toys and/or old clothes to donate to charity. Volunteer at a food bank. Show him that money/easy life isn't a birthright.

[Anonymous]

In my experience, peer pressure about grades does set in at some point in many private schools. I second the notion of restricting extracurriculars. Maybe also put DC in a low key summer camp/school without his friends and see how he does in that kind of environment? I would wait on taking him out altogether until you're really sure you have a handle on what the deal is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. While I'll appeciate the perspective of the last several posts, I don't think I am asking too much of a 3rd grader to complete homework, listen/learn/contribute in class, take school seriously, have an appreciation for what things in life cost, and treat parents with regard and respect. These are formative years. Bad habits and attitudes developed now sustain later. DC is more than capable (intellectually) of doing the work. I am not asking for straight A's or a veledictorian in the making. I'm asking that my child have a sense of work ethic, that DC strive to always give a best effort in all endeavors (academic and non-academic). This concept seems to be crystal clear in extracurricular activities that are important to DC.

OP, I understand that the school may not suit your family. There is no point paying so much money for something that does not serve you well and it may be best to leave. However, the school does not control how kids treat their parents. Parents set the tone for a respectful relationship. May I suggest looking more closely at how you interact with your child and work on the respect issue from the perspective of your relationship with your child rather than assuming that the school culture is causing the problem?

[Anonymous]

OP are you focused on the grade or the quality of DC's work? Many decades ago, I was a straight A top of my class student at a public school without much effort and my first year at a top end boarding school was shocked to get a few Bs. An A at your public school may not reflect more work or learning as B at a private school. In private schools there can be a strange inflation/deflation struggle going on..more tendency to raise Cs to Bs and more tendency to be frugal on As even though everyone expects them.

We are not in elementary school yet but I have been thinking that we might be more willing to shell out the private school $$ if our kids are less motivated and average than super bright and ambitious. I do believe that an ambitious motivated student can do fine in public schools but the kids in the middle get left out with the large class sizes. Even if your child is only doing average that average in a private school may be better preparing him and he may be getting more attention.

I could be completely off base because we aren't there yet but I do think attitudes toward school and achievement are set more at home than at school. A bad or mediocre school can disrupt your efforts but even a really good one can not drive it. I don't how we will do this with working and all the activities but I think being very focused at home on the importance of homework and holding the line with no excuses makes more of a difference than the culture at the school.

We have several friends who are very displined with their kids. The kids do extra study on weekends, mornings, and afternoon. Fun activities always come second to study. We have other friends who are more like us now where our time at home with the kids is more aout family activities. The kids go to the same school and one set is much more motivated than the other.

[Anonymous]

I understand your situation. Our son moved to an independent school at 7th grade after having breezed through public elementary school and one year of middle school with very little effort. He spent the first two years after switching schools slacking off. We feared that he would get the worse out of this expensive school -- a snotty attitude without the appreciation for the opportunity placed before him and without the strong organization and study skills required to be succesfful at this school. Before he started 9th-grade we had a heart to heart talk with him. We told him he'd had 2 years to adjust to the school (he hadn't wanted to leave public school, so we felt it was fair to give him some time to settle in.) We said he could make the choise whether to stay there for high school or return to public school, but, if he chose to stay, he would have to demonstrate a more responsible attitude toward his work. We set specific benchmarks -- e.g., all homework turned in on time. We linked achievement of these benchmarks to continued participation in extracurricular activities which he loves -- not as punishment, but simply because he needed to show us that he could handle the additional demands of those activities while still meeting our expectations as far as work habits. We didn't talk about grades. We focused instead on responsibility. He made the decision to stay and we've had great results. Most important, he has taken responsibilty for doing well. He is better organized, less likely to goof off, and more likely to reach out to his teachers for help when he needs it. He is pleased with the results in terms of his grades -- this is much more important than our pleasure. Finally, he realizes what a great opportunity he has been given and values it.

However, you should note that he's 14. We also have an 8 y.o. daughter (attending the same public elementary that our son went to) and I would never use the same approach with her -- it's not appropriate developmentally and it wouldn't work anyway. With her we focus on rewards. First, we compliment her on having a good attitude about schoolwork -- "I loved that you stuck with reading that challenging book.", "I'm so impressed that you tried another way of solving that math problem.", etc. We encourage her to break her homework up into 15-20 minute spurts of effort, alternating with breaks. For example, 15 minutes of math, then 15 minutes of shooting baskets, then back to work to do spelling, followed by 15 minutes of listening to music.

As far as support from the school, we feel like we've gotten plenty of it from both kids' schools. Teachers have given extra help, suggestions for how we can help at home, and have given both kids encouragement to strive. Again, grades are not emphasIzed so much as work effort and attitude. Teachers convey a basic, but invaluable, message: "You can do this. Here's what you need to do. If you need help with that, I'm here for you." Are you getting this from your child's school?

Finally, R-E-S-P-E-C-T. (Sing it, Aretha!) Model it in your interactions with your spouse, child, their teachers, your neighbors, the checkout clerk, etc. Never talk to your child about how special he or she is for going to a fancy school. Don't put the decal on the car. And don't talk about how lousy the public schools are and how they're full of kids who arent's smart. Your child will instinctively understand that she has the upper hand with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I understand your situation. Our son moved to an independent school at 7th grade after having breezed through public elementary school and one year of middle school with very little effort. He spent the first two years after switching schools slacking off. We feared that he would get the worse out of this expensive school -- a snotty attitude without the appreciation for the opportunity placed before him and without the strong organization and study skills required to be succesfful at this school. Before he started 9th-grade we had a heart to heart talk with him. We told him he'd had 2 years to adjust to the school (he hadn't wanted to leave public school, so we felt it was fair to give him some time to settle in.) We said he could make the choise whether to stay there for high school or return to public school, but, if he chose to stay, he would have to demonstrate a more responsible attitude toward his work. We set specific benchmarks -- e.g., all homework turned in on time. We linked achievement of these benchmarks to continued participation in extracurricular activities which he loves -- not as punishment, but simply because he needed to show us that he could handle the additional demands of those activities while still meeting our expectations as far as work habits. We didn't talk about grades. We focused instead on responsibility. He made the decision to stay and we've had great results. Most important, he has taken responsibilty for doing well. He is better organized, less likely to goof off, and more likely to reach out to his teachers for help when he needs it. He is pleased with the results in terms of his grades -- this is much more important than our pleasure. Finally, he realizes what a great opportunity he has been given and values it.

However, you should note that he's 14. We also have an 8 y.o. daughter (attending the same public elementary that our son went to) and I would never use the same approach with her -- it's not appropriate developmentally and it wouldn't work anyway. With her we focus on rewards. First, we compliment her on having a good attitude about schoolwork -- "I loved that you stuck with reading that challenging book.", "I'm so impressed that you tried another way of solving that math problem.", etc. We encourage her to break her homework up into 15-20 minute spurts of effort, alternating with breaks. For example, 15 minutes of math, then 15 minutes of shooting baskets, then back to work to do spelling, followed by 15 minutes of listening to music.

As far as support from the school, we feel like we've gotten plenty of it from both kids' schools. Teachers have given extra help, suggestions for how we can help at home, and have given both kids encouragement to strive. Again, grades are not emphasIzed so much as work effort and attitude. Teachers convey a basic, but invaluable, message: "You can do this. Here's what you need to do. If you need help with that, I'm here for you." Are you getting this from your child's school?

Finally, R-E-S-P-E-C-T. (Sing it, Aretha!) Model it in your interactions with your spouse, child, their teachers, your neighbors, the checkout clerk, etc. Never talk to your child about how special he or she is for going to a fancy school. Don't put the decal on the car. And don't talk about how lousy the public schools are and how they're full of kids who arent's smart. Your child will instinctively understand that she has the upper hand with you.

Thank you, very helpful tips.

[Anonymous]

read "how to talk so kids will listen, and listen so kids will talk."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:read "how to talk so kids will listen, and listen so kids will talk."

Just ordered it from Amazon, the descriptions sound like the sort of advice that I need and can apply immediately. I'm the earlier poster with the 16 y.o. You hit the nail on the head. It's respect. I feel a lack of respect from my daughter when she doesn't take academic achievement seriously. Had assumed all of it came from her mirroring the behavior of her peers. I hate to say it, perhaps we condoned her behavior by not following through on pulling her out earlier and returning her to public school.

Your examples of what not to say to your child, I have said it all.

Again, thank you for helping me to pause and assess our situation further.