How many college applications did your DC complete?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The PP's son was being smart, not selfish. It's all about strategy.

What strategy? Where? Unless he'd prefer all 7 of the remaining schools to the one he already got into EA, there's no strategy to keeping applications at all 7 schools. Most probably, he'd prefer a few of the 7 to the one that accepted him EA, but he'd turn down the rest even if they accept him. For example, if he already got into Yale EA, then he may figure he'll go to Harvard if they accept him, but he'll turn down Cornell if they accept him. (Don't get me wrong, I love Cornell, half of my family went there, but I need an example.) So why not withdraw from Cornell, so that Cornell can accept another kid from his school or somewhere else in the country? Instead, some kid on Cornell's waitlist has to wait until May or June until this PP's kid relinquishes his slot and Cornell goes to the waitlist.

Unless he's applying for FA, there's no strategy involving comparing offers. (And no merit aid at the Ivies, either.)

The only conceivable strategy is that the family has calculated that withdrawing applications is too much bother, besides it would be fun to see how many Ivies he can get into.

This is not the way the process works. Colleges overaccept based on yield numbers and they have this down to a science. A student holding an EA spot on which the student hasn't decided is not "taking a spot" from somebody else.

The issue being discussed here is slightly different from what you think. Nobody was suggesting the kid give up an EA spot for possible future RD acceptances that might or might not materialize - that would be pretty dumb.

Also, yield isn't a science yet. Colleges routinely over- and under-estimate yield every year. But that's besides the point, because the point is that, whatever is going on with yield that year, colleges DO have waitlists, and they will only turn to these waitlists AFTER some accepted kids give up their slots.

The waitlist game doesn't start until after seat deposits are due, not after acceptances are sent. And yield is very much a science and any students who decline the offer early are part of that yield calculation.

In 2012 UVA got 28,000 applications and accepted 7800 even though they only have 3360 seats for freshman. UVA puts about 5000 people on the waitlist and of those only about 150 enroll (some years as low as 60) which is just a 3% enrollment rate of those who make the waitlist. Bottom line: Waitlists offer only a very small chance of admission and a student declining early is not going to boost anyone else's chances.

http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/class-of---uva-admits-but-how-many-will/article_d45ce227-f6ee-54c4-a94a-d29f77fb2611.html?mode=jqm

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our DS originally planned on doing 11. The thinking was that since he was applying to many Ivies it made sense to throw in more safeties since you can never count on admission to any particular Ivy or top college when admission rates are in single digits. He ultimately pared his list down to 8 after getting admitted early action to one of his choices. We are awaiting additional results of admission so we'll see if his strategy was a good one.

Wow, his classmates must hate him. How selfish.

Why is this selfish? It was non-binding early action, no early decision. The school he was admitted to allows students to not commit until May 1. No one is breaking any rules here.

Right, he's not breaking any rules here. But he's potentially taking acceptances away from other kids at his school, under the assumption that colleges accept a limited number of kids from each school. He'd do everybody else a favor by figuring out which remaining schools he'd prefer to the one he got into, and withdrawing from all the others. It's not a contest to see how many Ivies you can get into, if it comes at the expense of someone else who hasn't gotten into any yet. (And my kid is at a "top Ivy" or whatever you want to call it, so my post isn't motivated by jealousy.)

Right, like you are going to care about other kids when your kid's future is on the line.

[Anonymous]

DD did 11 apps. We would never have been able to anticipate the results or the final cost until acceptances/denials came in. It vastly re-ordered her list. Along the way she did let some acceptances go, she did not hold all of them to the very end. I think for the student who has been a very, very hard worker in high school, is from Virginia but is not going to get into UVA - since financially possible - I thought she deserved a varied selection of choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It doesn't need to be: research, list made, apps done, wait.

The process can be very fluid and changeable.

You can be: apply Aug-Sept to several rolling-admission financial safeties to hear back Oct-Nov, adjust list. Apply to match/reaches. If "no" decisions come in, replace that school with a new choice. Visit again as decisions/final costs are known. Work the waitlists/financial aid awards. If DC is on board, keep as many balls in the air as possible for as long as possible. Sometimes details emerge that prove to be important.

Certainly there are those for whom ED, early decision is preferred.

Not sure that works for the more competitive schools who don't do rolling admissions and all have pretty much the same deadlines. DC did one ED (Ivy) and 2 EAs with Nov 1 deadlines. No school that DC was remotely interested in had an earlier notification period (are there really decent schools you can apply to in August?). DC did another round of applications with Jan 1 deadlines. Heard from the ED school (deferred) on Dec 15 and one of the EA schools around Dec 22 or so (accepted). DC had already completed and submitted several of the Jan 1 applications before the decisions came in from the two schools since the window between notification and deadlines was so short. The results didn't really change the strategy so completed all but one of the planned additional apps by January 1 (dropped one thanks to the EA admit). The other EA school didn't notify until mid January - well after the deadlines for all the other schools. So DC really did follow the research, list made, apps done, wait approach. Unless DC had been admitted ED there was to other way to approach it.

[Anonymous]

DS did 6. Got accepted to 4. Chose 1.

[Anonymous]

"are there really decent schools you can apply to in August?"

yes, there are plenty of good schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"are there really decent schools you can apply to in August?"

yes, there are plenty of good schools.

August before enrollment? Please share names. MY worst nightmare is that a fluke lands my 95 percentile kid in a shut out situation

[Anonymous]

We are talking about the fall of senior year of high school. Applications can be completed late August or September.
There does exist the NACAC Space Available Survey which comes out each year in late May/June. Schools self-report if they have space available due to unanticipated yield results. For a student without many choices, or figuring community college is their only option, it's worth a look. In your circumstance, the fear you mention is shared by many parents but you should have no worries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
The waitlist game doesn't start until after seat deposits are due, not after acceptances are sent. And yield is very much a science and any students who decline the offer early are part of that yield calculation.

In 2012 UVA got 28,000 applications and accepted 7800 even though they only have 3360 seats for freshman. UVA puts about 5000 people on the waitlist and of those only about 150 enroll (some years as low as 60) which is just a 3% enrollment rate of those who make the waitlist. Bottom line: Waitlists offer only a very small chance of admission and a student declining early is not going to boost anyone else's chances.

http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/class-of---uva-admits-but-how-many-will/article_d45ce227-f6ee-54c4-a94a-d29f77fb2611.html?mode=jqm

Yield is a science the same way predicting the weather is a science: predictions are frequently very wrong, in either direction. Also, you're splitting hairs about colleges turning to waitlists only after deposits are made. I'm not sure how this makes a difference to the main point about kids on the waitlist having to wait until others give up their acceptances, but have fun splitting hairs if you want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The waitlist game doesn't start until after seat deposits are due, not after acceptances are sent. And yield is very much a science and any students who decline the offer early are part of that yield calculation.

In 2012 UVA got 28,000 applications and accepted 7800 even though they only have 3360 seats for freshman. UVA puts about 5000 people on the waitlist and of those only about 150 enroll (some years as low as 60) which is just a 3% enrollment rate of those who make the waitlist. Bottom line: Waitlists offer only a very small chance of admission and a student declining early is not going to boost anyone else's chances.

http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/class-of---uva-admits-but-how-many-will/article_d45ce227-f6ee-54c4-a94a-d29f77fb2611.html?mode=jqm

Yield is a science the same way predicting the weather is a science: predictions are frequently very wrong, in either direction. Also, you're splitting hairs about colleges turning to waitlists only after deposits are made. I'm not sure how this makes a difference to the main point about kids on the waitlist having to wait until others give up their acceptances, but have fun splitting hairs if you want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The waitlist game doesn't start until after seat deposits are due, not after acceptances are sent. And yield is very much a science and any students who decline the offer early are part of that yield calculation.

In 2012 UVA got 28,000 applications and accepted 7800 even though they only have 3360 seats for freshman. UVA puts about 5000 people on the waitlist and of those only about 150 enroll (some years as low as 60) which is just a 3% enrollment rate of those who make the waitlist. Bottom line: Waitlists offer only a very small chance of admission and a student declining early is not going to boost anyone else's chances.

http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/class-of---uva-admits-but-how-many-will/article_d45ce227-f6ee-54c4-a94a-d29f77fb2611.html?mode=jqm

Yield is a science the same way predicting the weather is a science: predictions are frequently very wrong, in either direction. Also, you're splitting hairs about colleges turning to waitlists only after deposits are made. I'm not sure how this makes a difference to the main point about kids on the waitlist having to wait until others give up their acceptances, but have fun splitting hairs if you want.

The "main point" was that a kid who was accepted to more than one school EA should start declining offers so that others could be accepted to those schools. One poster called such a kid with multiple offers "selfish." That view misunderstands the process. Declining EA offers is not going to result in more offers. The declines are already baked-in to the process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The waitlist game doesn't start until after seat deposits are due, not after acceptances are sent. And yield is very much a science and any students who decline the offer early are part of that yield calculation.

In 2012 UVA got 28,000 applications and accepted 7800 even though they only have 3360 seats for freshman. UVA puts about 5000 people on the waitlist and of those only about 150 enroll (some years as low as 60) which is just a 3% enrollment rate of those who make the waitlist. Bottom line: Waitlists offer only a very small chance of admission and a student declining early is not going to boost anyone else's chances.

http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/class-of---uva-admits-but-how-many-will/article_d45ce227-f6ee-54c4-a94a-d29f77fb2611.html?mode=jqm

Yield is a science the same way predicting the weather is a science: predictions are frequently very wrong, in either direction. Also, you're splitting hairs about colleges turning to waitlists only after deposits are made. I'm not sure how this makes a difference to the main point about kids on the waitlist having to wait until others give up their acceptances, but have fun splitting hairs if you want.

The "main point" was that a kid who was accepted to more than one school EA should start declining offers so that others could be accepted to those schools. One poster called such a kid with multiple offers "selfish." That view misunderstands the process. Declining EA offers is not going to result in more offers. The declines are already baked-in to the process.

Fine, you win. Pat yourself on the back! The rest of us lack the energy to follow you in parsing everyone's posts over the past three pages.

(Although I can't resist. I do econometrics for a living, and I'm well aware of how wrong any forecast can go, whether it's for the stock market, housing prices, or things like yield. I sincerely doubt that any college can predict matriculations and yield down to the last kid. And to the extent that a college's yield calculation is off by even one single kid, that college will either be oversubscribed or have to (a) make more regular decision offers, or (b) go to its waitlist. So in fact, every time one kid declines an EA offer, another kid benefits by (1) getting an RD offer the college hadn't planned to make because it thought more kids would accept its EA offers, or (2) by getting off the waitlist. Unless you're right, and the college has the yield thing figured out down to the last kid. But I really doubt that.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The waitlist game doesn't start until after seat deposits are due, not after acceptances are sent. And yield is very much a science and any students who decline the offer early are part of that yield calculation.

In 2012 UVA got 28,000 applications and accepted 7800 even though they only have 3360 seats for freshman. UVA puts about 5000 people on the waitlist and of those only about 150 enroll (some years as low as 60) which is just a 3% enrollment rate of those who make the waitlist. Bottom line: Waitlists offer only a very small chance of admission and a student declining early is not going to boost anyone else's chances.

http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/class-of---uva-admits-but-how-many-will/article_d45ce227-f6ee-54c4-a94a-d29f77fb2611.html?mode=jqm

Yield is a science the same way predicting the weather is a science: predictions are frequently very wrong, in either direction. Also, you're splitting hairs about colleges turning to waitlists only after deposits are made. I'm not sure how this makes a difference to the main point about kids on the waitlist having to wait until others give up their acceptances, but have fun splitting hairs if you want.

The "main point" was that a kid who was accepted to more than one school EA should start declining offers so that others could be accepted to those schools. One poster called such a kid with multiple offers "selfish." That view misunderstands the process. Declining EA offers is not going to result in more offers. The declines are already baked-in to the process.

Fine, you win. Pat yourself on the back! The rest of us lack the energy to follow you in parsing everyone's posts over the past three pages.

(Although I can't resist. I do econometrics for a living, and I'm well aware of how wrong any forecast can go, whether it's for the stock market, housing prices, or things like yield. I sincerely doubt that any college can predict matriculations and yield down to the last kid. And to the extent that a college's yield calculation is off by even one single kid, that college will either be oversubscribed or have to (a) make more regular decision offers, or (b) go to its waitlist. So in fact, every time one kid declines an EA offer, another kid benefits by (1) getting an RD offer the college hadn't planned to make because it thought more kids would accept its EA offers, or (2) by getting off the waitlist. Unless you're right, and the college has the yield thing figured out down to the last kid. But I really doubt that.)

If it worked the way you hypothesize, schools would ask EA acceptees to decide as soon as possible. But they don't. That's the whole point of EA as opposed ED.

It is fine for kids to take their time with offers. They aren't hurting anybody and they earned it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
If it worked the way you hypothesize, schools would ask EA acceptees to decide as soon as possible. But they don't. That's the whole point of EA as opposed ED.

It is fine for kids to take their time with offers. They aren't hurting anybody and they earned it.

But it's still the case that the school can't offer the slot to anybody else until the EA admit gives it up. And that no school in the history of schools has ever forecasted yield down to the exact acceptance and decline. Why is this so hard to understand?????

[Anonymous]

Are there that many kids sitting on multiple EA offers? My DC only has one EA offer and isn't giving that up. But even if he'd gotten in to the second EA school he would have help both to be able to compare the EA schools to the (hopefully) RD schools. Why rule one out now? One of DCs friends has 3 EA offers but on at least one (probably the lowest of the choices at the moment) won't hear about the honors college until March which might make a difference.

Personally I don't see a need to rush to decline offers. The schools don't expect it or ask for it.

As to yield calcs, if some kids decline early how does the school know if those are declines they planned for or incremental declines. No way to know until the deadline. So I expect it has no impact on admissions in RD.