DCPS Middle School problem in the Washington Post

[Anonymous]

Money^^. Autocorrect.

[Anonymous]

This also misses the point of what economies of scale can provide for a school. THe per pupil spending at Deal is around $10K vs. about $18K at Hart. Even with double the costs, Hart can't offer what Deal does because enrollment is so low. We cannot recreate the offerings of Deal for such tiny student enrollment schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:100% lottery? Do this to my DC with unacceptable results and DC will not be enrolling in DCPS, period. More middle-class flight ensues, unless there are test-in possibilities.

Yeah, but did you consider the possibility that your child would not be smart enough to test-in. I know, I know, everyone thinks their child is gifted.

Yes, I have considered that possibility, but DC is at grade level, which is better than most in DCPS. The bar can be set pretty low, imho. Ending social promotion in elementary school might light a fire under some union fannies.

I don't think this is a union thing. YY does not believe in holding children back, and to my knowledge has not failed to promote a child beyond K. The administration is on record as stating that "studies have shown that holding children back in elementary is much more detrimental than promotion to the next level". This was discussed ad nauseum several years ago when YY implemented its non-immersion track curriculum. The teachers at the school are not unionized. I can't imagine that YY is the only non-union school that believes the studies regarding this issue.

Those must be very funny studies, if they actually exist, because they directly contradict the main policy (no social promotion) prevalent in basically every single country that ranks higher than the US in international tables.

[Anonymous]

I was glad to see that the issue of PS-8 and 6-12 grade schools got some attention, if only a tiny bit. That's one of the many reasons why our in-bounds school is not an option for my kids--MS kids really don't need to be on the same campus as ES kids, being a potentially bad influence. Nor do they need to be lumped in with HS kids who are potentially bad influences on them. I'm guessing this was done as a space issue, since so many of the PS-8 and 6-12 schools were under-enrolled, but it's definitely not an attractive choice when there are other options.

I also agree with the PP who said that MacFarland needs to be re-invented as a test-in MS. It's centrally located for much of the city, it's near the metro and bus lines, and DCPS isn't going to attract families that have other options (charters, moving) without ensuring that there are solid academic offerings at any new MS.

[Anonymous]

There is actually not a single middle school in DC that seems appealing to our family at this point. Things have changed a lot in the DC educational landscape over the last few years, so I'm hoping by the time my kids hit middle school there are some better options out there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:100% lottery? Do this to my DC with unacceptable results and DC will not be enrolling in DCPS, period. More middle-class flight ensues, unless there are test-in possibilities.

Yeah, but did you consider the possibility that your child would not be smart enough to test-in. I know, I know, everyone thinks their child is gifted.

Yes, I have considered that possibility, but DC is at grade level, which is better than most in DCPS. The bar can be set pretty low, imho. Ending social promotion in elementary school might light a fire under some union fannies.

I don't think this is a union thing. YY does not believe in holding children back, and to my knowledge has not failed to promote a child beyond K. The administration is on record as stating that "studies have shown that holding children back in elementary is much more detrimental than promotion to the next level". This was discussed ad nauseum several years ago when YY implemented its non-immersion track curriculum. The teachers at the school are not unionized. I can't imagine that YY is the only non-union school that believes the studies regarding this issue.

Those must be very funny studies, if they actually exist, because they directly contradict the main policy (no social promotion) prevalent in basically every single country that ranks higher than the US in international tables.

You're right. In those other countries, they that don't bother to educate those students. Many are tracked early into a non-academic track, and others just completely drop the learning challenged students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Another take away from the article: what the hell is going on at Ross? Eight fifth graders? Twenty-four fourth graders? What a waste of space and resources, and teachers. Those kids should be moved into a different elementary school and stop wasting all theory spent to operate that space to educate so few children. As a parent and tax payer I find that to be outrageous.

I just checked the OOB lottery results from last year and it looks like there were 9 OOB kids waitlisted for 5th at Ross. Are we to assume those kids weren't called or they were called and they turned down the stop? I don't see anything wrong with 24 4th graders though. That's actually a good size class, bordering on big. Ross is a small school and only has one 4th grade, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:100% lottery? Do this to my DC with unacceptable results and DC will not be enrolling in DCPS, period. More middle-class flight ensues, unless there are test-in possibilities.

Yeah, but did you consider the possibility that your child would not be smart enough to test-in. I know, I know, everyone thinks their child is gifted.

Yes, I have considered that possibility, but DC is at grade level, which is better than most in DCPS. The bar can be set pretty low, imho. Ending social promotion in elementary school might light a fire under some union fannies.

I don't think this is a union thing. YY does not believe in holding children back, and to my knowledge has not failed to promote a child beyond K. The administration is on record as stating that "studies have shown that holding children back in elementary is much more detrimental than promotion to the next level". This was discussed ad nauseum several years ago when YY implemented its non-immersion track curriculum. The teachers at the school are not unionized. I can't imagine that YY is the only non-union school that believes the studies regarding this issue.

Those must be very funny studies, if they actually exist, because they directly contradict the main policy (no social promotion) prevalent in basically every single country that ranks higher than the US in international tables.

You're right. In those other countries, they that don't bother to educate those students. Many are tracked early into a non-academic track, and others just completely drop the learning challenged students.

Maybe this wouldn't be a bad thing for DCPS, though I doubt it's politically feasible. However, it would be better for some kids to be able to do sports and arts and eventually master basics of literacy, math and business/civics, without pretending that they will be going to college some day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:100% lottery? Do this to my DC with unacceptable results and DC will not be enrolling in DCPS, period. More middle-class flight ensues, unless there are test-in possibilities.

Yeah, but did you consider the possibility that your child would not be smart enough to test-in. I know, I know, everyone thinks their child is gifted.

Yes, I have considered that possibility, but DC is at grade level, which is better than most in DCPS. The bar can be set pretty low, imho. Ending social promotion in elementary school might light a fire under some union fannies.

I don't think this is a union thing. YY does not believe in holding children back, and to my knowledge has not failed to promote a child beyond K. The administration is on record as stating that "studies have shown that holding children back in elementary is much more detrimental than promotion to the next level". This was discussed ad nauseum several years ago when YY implemented its non-immersion track curriculum. The teachers at the school are not unionized. I can't imagine that YY is the only non-union school that believes the studies regarding this issue.

Those must be very funny studies, if they actually exist, because they directly contradict the main policy (no social promotion) prevalent in basically every single country that ranks higher than the US in international tables.

You're right. In those other countries, they that don't bother to educate those students. Many are tracked early into a non-academic track, and others just completely drop the learning challenged students.

They educate their students quite well. They just don't get caught up in the unrealistic expectation that every student is collegiate material. The non-academic tracks lead to a number of robust programs. Germany for example has several tracks to include a vocational technical track that leads directly into technical apprenticeships and good jobs. That's how Germans are known for their expert engineering and craftsmanship, after all. Those are models that are nowhere near as strong or well-developed here.

[Anonymous]

What is happening at Kelly Miller now with Principal Zaki that wasn't happening before?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another take away from the article: what the hell is going on at Ross? Eight fifth graders? Twenty-four fourth graders? What a waste of space and resources, and teachers. Those kids should be moved into a different elementary school and stop wasting all theory spent to operate that space to educate so few children. As a parent and tax payer I find that to be outrageous.

I just checked the OOB lottery results from last year and it looks like there were 9 OOB kids waitlisted for 5th at Ross. Are we to assume those kids weren't called or they were called and they turned down the stop? I don't see anything wrong with 24 4th graders though. That's actually a good size class, bordering on big. Ross is a small school and only has one 4th grade, right?

I would assume that Ross 4th graders apply en mass to BASIS & Latin, as the best charter schools available with no guarantee for an acceptable DCPS option. The problem Ross has in attracting OOB candidates is the same problem it has in retaining students from 4th to 5th -- nowhere to go for 6th. So, essentially, going to Ross for 5th is a one year solution.

Another problem with accepting new 5th graders it the DC-CAS is then administered to students who the school has educated for ~ 7 months, Sept to April of their 5th grade year, and the school judged by those scores. A lot of principals won't widely broadcast "empty seats in 5th grade" because who know who will come.

I expect all 9 students on the OOB lottery wait list were contacted. Maybe some of them even matriculated and are part of the 8 students in the 5th grade class.

[Anonymous]

Same issue at Brent. 45 4th graders and something like 11 5th graders

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Same issue at Brent. 45 4th graders and something like 11 5th graders

A magnet middle school just makes TOO much sense. But, you know what, a magnet DCPS middle could cut really deeply into the Charters' business. I'd be suspicious of what kind of payoffs are going on to prevent such a thing from happening. Charters are big bucks for the folks who run them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another take away from the article: what the hell is going on at Ross? Eight fifth graders? Twenty-four fourth graders? What a waste of space and resources, and teachers. Those kids should be moved into a different elementary school and stop wasting all theory spent to operate that space to educate so few children. As a parent and tax payer I find that to be outrageous.

I just checked the OOB lottery results from last year and it looks like there were 9 OOB kids waitlisted for 5th at Ross. Are we to assume those kids weren't called or they were called and they turned down the stop? I don't see anything wrong with 24 4th graders though. That's actually a good size class, bordering on big. Ross is a small school and only has one 4th grade, right?

Yes, Ross is tiny and only has one classroom per grade. 24 4th graders means one class of 4th graders with 24 kids which is a pretty normal number. Eight 5th graders is super low, even for one classroom.

[Anonymous]

Pp: you are on the wrong track here. It is just silly to think the charter schools need to Payoff anyone to get students. It is way too easy the way DCPS operates its middle schools.

So far no magnets or application middle schools because it would discriminate somehow against children who don't have involved parents and may end up being populated by too many middle-income students ( not reflecting demographics of the city). However it does look like Ward 7 has an application only middle school it's working on with Catania and Henderson.