DCPS Middle School problem in the Washington Post

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How would DCPS build up middle schools now or in the future if pretty much all of us have agreed we don't want our kids going to a school that qualifies for title one status. They could have everything done right and I think most of us would reject it because it served poor kids. Given the percentages in the system, it would appear that nothing is possible unless middle and upper class parents will let their kids go to school with poor kids. I get why this is an issue, I left a title one school, but I also recognize DCPS is a bit screwed.

DC is not the only city to face this and other cities have come up with ways to attract and retain those parents including test-in and magnet schools. They just don't want to use those models here for political reasons.

Name the cities and models. San Francisco, Boston and New York use controlled choice models. I have mixed feelings about those options. Are there others?

Denver does too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And it is not just about middle class parents not wanting to go to school with poor kids. It is more about the miserable academic preparation so many of those kids have gotten through DCPS. I would take a school full of poor kids if they were motivated, worked hard and had the basics down to move ahead.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Average DCPS elementary teacher is budgeted as $96,670 (salary + benefits).

See submitted budgets for FY14: http://dcps.dc.gov/DCPS/About+DCPS/Budget+and+Finance/FY14+Fiscal+Report+Card/Submitted+Budgets.

Yeah, DCPS jobs are seriously well paid, secure, and you get your summers off. PLUS, many of them get five-figure bonuses on top of that:

http://dc.gov/DCPS/About+DCPS/Career+Opportunities/Teach+in+Our+Schools/Compensation


I've had kids in a couple DCPS schools, and I've been very impressed with teachers' overall professionalism and competence. So, my anecdotal impression is that DCPS has quality teachers.

Seriously well paid? You have got to be kidding. According to that link, one has to have a Ph.D and +10 years of experience to break $100K. That is not seriously well paid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:@22:49 you want Banneker students to integrated to get better test scores? Your stats say they don't do well with the SAT but what does your stats say about their college acceptance rate. If they are not attending an integrated college/universityl of your liking, I gather they are destined to be failures. Where do you all come from and why in the hell did you select DC?

I'm sorry, but DC has three test-in HS. The same students applying to the test-in HS, will be the same students applying to any test-in MS. There is a reason other than Banneker's SAT scores that are preventing many of you from allowing your children to apply to these HS. It will be the same reasons you will prevent your children from applying to the MS. Banneker, McKinely, and SWW have AP, IB, and advanced classes. Those schools are only as good as the applicants. They accept the best applicants who apply. If your DC is a better applicant and attended, the classes are there for them to take and excel.

I agree with you PP, why the hell did these people come to DC if they don't want their snowflakes integrated with all those Black kids. You really are no different that the generation before you. You know the ones that ran to the suburbs and privates to get away from those nigras.

WE came to DC to help run our country and many of us came from properly functioning cities, so we are a little shocked how badly run parts of this so-called "city" are. WE don't like the suburbs and we don't like your tired mindset of you-get-what-you-get and this-is-how-we've-always-done-it in addition to your racist revisionism.[/quote

Don't feed the troll. There is no reasoning with a calcified mind-set.

Honesty, what will be the differences in the applicants from the test-in MS and the current test-in HS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Average DCPS elementary teacher is budgeted as $96,670 (salary + benefits).

See submitted budgets for FY14: http://dcps.dc.gov/DCPS/About+DCPS/Budget+and+Finance/FY14+Fiscal+Report+Card/Submitted+Budgets.

Yeah, DCPS jobs are seriously well paid, secure, and you get your summers off. PLUS, many of them get five-figure bonuses on top of that:

http://dc.gov/DCPS/About+DCPS/Career+Opportunities/Teach+in+Our+Schools/Compensation


I've had kids in a couple DCPS schools, and I've been very impressed with teachers' overall professionalism and competence. So, my anecdotal impression is that DCPS has quality teachers.

Seriously well paid? You have got to be kidding. According to that link, one has to have a Ph.D and +10 years of experience to break $100K. That is not seriously well paid.

Well, excuuuusse me, Mr. Thurston Howell III. You and Lovie g'won back to the bank for some fresh $100 bills for your toilet dispensers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing that I have not understood with the growth of charters is how DCPS could be so slow to respond. DCPS has a huge disadvantage -- that they have to take all comers -- relative to the charters, but they also have a huge advantage that they tend not to use. Although charters have to run a lottery only take the winners, DCPS is not so constrained. They can select on other criteria. Have test-in schools. Create all the immersion schools they want and organize them in a way more oriented towards children with more support in that language or a mixture of different backgrounds. In short, they have some means of cherry picking the best students, but do not use them. Maybe that is a good thing. But since the charters have soft means of doing so, it seems strange that DCPS does not at least try to combat that with better options of their own.

Charter schools are most certainly not "cherry picking the best students". Students of all kinds end up at charter schools in droves. Like almost half of the public school children in our city. That isn't cherry picking. That is something about DCPS driving them elsewhere

Correct, charters do not cherrypick - students self-select into charters on the premise that the charters will meet their needs more effectively.

I think the PP was suggesting that DCPS would have the power to cherrypick and retain high-achieving students and compete with charters by making such offers available. But they don't have the political will and the more they drag their feet, the less credibility they have and the more the opportunity to turn things around slips through their fingers.

Charters cherrypick which students they keep. The attrition rate at high performing charters is often in the double digets

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Average DCPS elementary teacher is budgeted as $96,670 (salary + benefits).

See submitted budgets for FY14: http://dcps.dc.gov/DCPS/About+DCPS/Budget+and+Finance/FY14+Fiscal+Report+Card/Submitted+Budgets.

Yeah, DCPS jobs are seriously well paid, secure, and you get your summers off. PLUS, many of them get five-figure bonuses on top of that:

http://dc.gov/DCPS/About+DCPS/Career+Opportunities/Teach+in+Our+Schools/Compensation


I've had kids in a couple DCPS schools, and I've been very impressed with teachers' overall professionalism and competence. So, my anecdotal impression is that DCPS has quality teachers.

Seriously well paid? You have got to be kidding. According to that link, one has to have a Ph.D and +10 years of experience to break $100K. That is not seriously well paid.

Well, excuuuusse me, Mr. Thurston Howell III. You and Lovie g'won back to the bank for some fresh $100 bills for your toilet dispensers.

So you think teachers should be paid... Minimum wage?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing that I have not understood with the growth of charters is how DCPS could be so slow to respond. DCPS has a huge disadvantage -- that they have to take all comers -- relative to the charters, but they also have a huge advantage that they tend not to use. Although charters have to run a lottery only take the winners, DCPS is not so constrained. They can select on other criteria. Have test-in schools. Create all the immersion schools they want and organize them in a way more oriented towards children with more support in that language or a mixture of different backgrounds. In short, they have some means of cherry picking the best students, but do not use them. Maybe that is a good thing. But since the charters have soft means of doing so, it seems strange that DCPS does not at least try to combat that with better options of their own.

Charter schools are most certainly not "cherry picking the best students". Students of all kinds end up at charter schools in droves. Like almost half of the public school children in our city. That isn't cherry picking. That is something about DCPS driving them elsewhere

Correct, charters do not cherrypick - students self-select into charters on the premise that the charters will meet their needs more effectively.

I think the PP was suggesting that DCPS would have the power to cherrypick and retain high-achieving students and compete with charters by making such offers available. But they don't have the political will and the more they drag their feet, the less credibility they have and the more the opportunity to turn things around slips through their fingers.

Charters cherrypick which students they keep. The attrition rate at high performing charters is often in the double digets

Provide proof. Otherwise you're just making shit up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:@22:49 you want Banneker students to integrated to get better test scores? Your stats say they don't do well with the SAT but what does your stats say about their college acceptance rate. If they are not attending an integrated college/universityl of your liking, I gather they are destined to be failures. Where do you all come from and why in the hell did you select DC?

I'm sorry, but DC has three test-in HS. The same students applying to the test-in HS, will be the same students applying to any test-in MS. There is a reason other than Banneker's SAT scores that are preventing many of you from allowing your children to apply to these HS. It will be the same reasons you will prevent your children from applying to the MS. Banneker, McKinely, and SWW have AP, IB, and advanced classes. Those schools are only as good as the applicants. They accept the best applicants who apply. If your DC is a better applicant and attended, the classes are there for them to take and excel.

I agree with you PP, why the hell did these people come to DC if they don't want their snowflakes integrated with all those Black kids. You really are no different that the generation before you. You know the ones that ran to the suburbs and privates to get away from those nigras.

WE came to DC to help run our country and many of us came from properly functioning cities, so we are a little shocked how badly run parts of this so-called "city" are. WE don't like the suburbs and we don't like your tired mindset of you-get-what-you-get and this-is-how-we've-always-done-it in addition to your racist revisionism.[/quote

Don't feed the troll. There is no reasoning with a calcified mind-set.

Honesty, what will be the differences in the applicants from the test-in MS and the current test-in HS?

Well, for example, if a large portion of the best and brightest students ( of all racial and socio economic backgrounds ) are leaving the system at middle school they are not around to apply for a test-in high school, right? So capturing them with a rest-in program at middle school would be the idea. Plus having something to shoot for ups everyone's game, even those who don't necessarily get into the test in middle school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing that I have not understood with the growth of charters is how DCPS could be so slow to respond. DCPS has a huge disadvantage -- that they have to take all comers -- relative to the charters, but they also have a huge advantage that they tend not to use. Although charters have to run a lottery only take the winners, DCPS is not so constrained. They can select on other criteria. Have test-in schools. Create all the immersion schools they want and organize them in a way more oriented towards children with more support in that language or a mixture of different backgrounds. In short, they have some means of cherry picking the best students, but do not use them. Maybe that is a good thing. But since the charters have soft means of doing so, it seems strange that DCPS does not at least try to combat that with better options of their own.

Charter schools are most certainly not "cherry picking the best students". Students of all kinds end up at charter schools in droves. Like almost half of the public school children in our city. That isn't cherry picking. That is something about DCPS driving them elsewhere

Correct, charters do not cherrypick - students self-select into charters on the premise that the charters will meet their needs more effectively.

I think the PP was suggesting that DCPS would have the power to cherrypick and retain high-achieving students and compete with charters by making such offers available. But they don't have the political will and the more they drag their feet, the less credibility they have and the more the opportunity to turn things around slips through their fingers.

Charters cherrypick which students they keep. The attrition rate at high performing charters is often in the double digets

Provide proof. Otherwise you're just making shit up.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing that I have not understood with the growth of charters is how DCPS could be so slow to respond. DCPS has a huge disadvantage -- that they have to take all comers -- relative to the charters, but they also have a huge advantage that they tend not to use. Although charters have to run a lottery only take the winners, DCPS is not so constrained. They can select on other criteria. Have test-in schools. Create all the immersion schools they want and organize them in a way more oriented towards children with more support in that language or a mixture of different backgrounds. In short, they have some means of cherry picking the best students, but do not use them. Maybe that is a good thing. But since the charters have soft means of doing so, it seems strange that DCPS does not at least try to combat that with better options of their own.

Charter schools are most certainly not "cherry picking the best students". Students of all kinds end up at charter schools in droves. Like almost half of the public school children in our city. That isn't cherry picking. That is something about DCPS driving them elsewhere

Correct, charters do not cherrypick - students self-select into charters on the premise that the charters will meet their needs more effectively.

I think the PP was suggesting that DCPS would have the power to cherrypick and retain high-achieving students and compete with charters by making such offers available. But they don't have the political will and the more they drag their feet, the less credibility they have and the more the opportunity to turn things around slips through their fingers.

Charters do not cherry pick. DCPS can also expell children, but they choose not too. I guess it is too much paperwork for them.

Charters cherrypick which students they keep. The attrition rate at high performing charters is often in the double digets

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing that I have not understood with the growth of charters is how DCPS could be so slow to respond. DCPS has a huge disadvantage -- that they have to take all comers -- relative to the charters, but they also have a huge advantage that they tend not to use. Although charters have to run a lottery only take the winners, DCPS is not so constrained. They can select on other criteria. Have test-in schools. Create all the immersion schools they want and organize them in a way more oriented towards children with more support in that language or a mixture of different backgrounds. In short, they have some means of cherry picking the best students, but do not use them. Maybe that is a good thing. But since the charters have soft means of doing so, it seems strange that DCPS does not at least try to combat that with better options of their own.

Charter schools are most certainly not "cherry picking the best students". Students of all kinds end up at charter schools in droves. Like almost half of the public school children in our city. That isn't cherry picking. That is something about DCPS driving them elsewhere

Correct, charters do not cherrypick - students self-select into charters on the premise that the charters will meet their needs more effectively.

I think the PP was suggesting that DCPS would have the power to cherrypick and retain high-achieving students and compete with charters by making such offers available. But they don't have the political will and the more they drag their feet, the less credibility they have and the more the opportunity to turn things around slips through their fingers.

Charters cherrypick which students they keep. The attrition rate at high performing charters is often in the double digets

Nope, students self-select out. If they aren't able to keep up with the curriculum, they wash out to pursue easier options. Charters don't have people going from classroom to classroom, saying, "You, Johnny - you're in. You, Tina - you're out."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing that I have not understood with the growth of charters is how DCPS could be so slow to respond. DCPS has a huge disadvantage -- that they have to take all comers -- relative to the charters, but they also have a huge advantage that they tend not to use. Although charters have to run a lottery only take the winners, DCPS is not so constrained. They can select on other criteria. Have test-in schools. Create all the immersion schools they want and organize them in a way more oriented towards children with more support in that language or a mixture of different backgrounds. In short, they have some means of cherry picking the best students, but do not use them. Maybe that is a good thing. But since the charters have soft means of doing so, it seems strange that DCPS does not at least try to combat that with better options of their own.

Charter schools are most certainly not "cherry picking the best students". Students of all kinds end up at charter schools in droves. Like almost half of the public school children in our city. That isn't cherry picking. That is something about DCPS driving them elsewhere

Correct, charters do not cherrypick - students self-select into charters on the premise that the charters will meet their needs more effectively.

I think the PP was suggesting that DCPS would have the power to cherrypick and retain high-achieving students and compete with charters by making such offers available. But they don't have the political will and the more they drag their feet, the less credibility they have and the more the opportunity to turn things around slips through their fingers.

Charters cherrypick which students they keep. The attrition rate at high performing charters is often in the double digets

Nope, students self-select out. If they aren't able to keep up with the curriculum, they wash out to pursue easier options. Charters don't have people going from classroom to classroom, saying, "You, Johnny - you're in. You, Tina - you're out."

In public school that's called dropout rate. Funny how we don't have a drop out rate for charter students who wash out. And there are students who are counseled to leave either for academic and/or behavioral reasons.

Last year 10% of Basis's students either "self-selected to leave" or "dropped out" or were counseled out.

[Anonymous]

Isn't the 10% rate for BASIS pretty good, given that many of the kids came from non-Ward 3 DCPS with atrocious DCCAS scores, little-to-no science classes and no exposure to a foreign language of any kind (much less the rules of grammar)? Count my DC among them, though DC is treading water and hanging in there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing that I have not understood with the growth of charters is how DCPS could be so slow to respond. DCPS has a huge disadvantage -- that they have to take all comers -- relative to the charters, but they also have a huge advantage that they tend not to use. Although charters have to run a lottery only take the winners, DCPS is not so constrained. They can select on other criteria. Have test-in schools. Create all the immersion schools they want and organize them in a way more oriented towards children with more support in that language or a mixture of different backgrounds. In short, they have some means of cherry picking the best students, but do not use them. Maybe that is a good thing. But since the charters have soft means of doing so, it seems strange that DCPS does not at least try to combat that with better options of their own.

Charter schools are most certainly not "cherry picking the best students". Students of all kinds end up at charter schools in droves. Like almost half of the public school children in our city. That isn't cherry picking. That is something about DCPS driving them elsewhere

Correct, charters do not cherrypick - students self-select into charters on the premise that the charters will meet their needs more effectively.

I think the PP was suggesting that DCPS would have the power to cherrypick and retain high-achieving students and compete with charters by making such offers available. But they don't have the political will and the more they drag their feet, the less credibility they have and the more the opportunity to turn things around slips through their fingers.

Charters cherrypick which students they keep. The attrition rate at high performing charters is often in the double digets

Nope, students self-select out. If they aren't able to keep up with the curriculum, they wash out to pursue easier options. Charters don't have people going from classroom to classroom, saying, "You, Johnny - you're in. You, Tina - you're out."

In public school that's called dropout rate. Funny how we don't have a drop out rate for charter students who wash out. And there are students who are counseled to leave either for academic and/or behavioral reasons.

Last year 10% of Basis's students either "self-selected to leave" or "dropped out" or were counseled out.

I'd point out that DCPS has a 40% dropout rate. And please dump the "counseled out" language - you have no evidence to suggest that any significant percentage of any charter is being asked to leave against their will.