Does the college matter?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You don't have to starve simply because you choose a college and a career based on criteria other than money. I sincerely hope my daughter (who graduates this year and has already accepted a teaching position) wii not starve as a special ed teacher. Would she have more money as a physician? Certainly. But there are so many things more important than money. I'm so glad my children understand that.

But what if she wanted to be an actress? Or college professor? Or a chess player? It looks like she chose something which, while not necessarily glamorous, still makes her employable. There are many many passions for which this is not the case.

The aspect that gets overlooked when it comes to choosing a major and deciding what one would like to do down the line, is at that young age one really does not have much of an idea as to the right career path. I had no clue what I really wanted to do when I completed high school and was influenced by my parents - as were my siblings.

I am totally with the PP who said the "follow your passion movement" is a crock and, frankly, it does a disservice to young people who often don't have a clue as to what income is needed to maintain a certain lifestyle.

When it came to our children, we did not push them or even influence them into any particular career. But what we did do was to tell them that if they chose a career that did not pay much, it would affect the lifestyle they had been used to growing up. We told them what our average expenditure was to maintain the lifestyle they had experienced growing up. They were shocked at how much one needed and it was not as if we lived a life of luxury. One wanted to be a teacher and we told her what she was likely to make as a teacher and to figure out what it would cost to rent a place, maintain a car, vacation, etc - and this did not even include the costs entailed in raising a family.

Years later she told us that she had decided on a different career because she did not want to have to be skimping on basics that she had gotten used to growing up. She was influenced by the conversation we had with her. She went on to do her MBA from a top ten school and is today a senior executive with a NYSE company. Would she have been happier as a teacher? Perhaps - but does she have any regrets about the career path she pursued? Not a bit.

Our other two children knew they wanted to be physicians and that is what they pursued and are happy with their choice because they like their work AND because they make a good income and have stable employment.

There is nothing wrong with pursuing a career which enables one to have a comfortable lifestyle even if one is not passionate about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

This is just outright misleading. Corporate CEOs' frequently say they have well paying jobs available in their companies but there are not sufficient applicants with the right skill sets and so they end up having to look overseas. A major in the humanities is not a death sentence but it does not offer one the opportunities for career growth and compensation that other majors do. It is the reality of today's job market.

BTW, I went to an liberal arts school for my undergrad but it was a different era.

I have graduated in the past 5 years and watched a number of peers navigate the current job market from a range of majors. I have also looked at the statistics in terms of employment and salary. I am not sure what major, aside from engineering offers "career growth and compensation" that is guaranteed. And even though my engineering friends are better compensated once they get a job, getting a job can be hell, especially in a specialized field like aerospace engineering (I had a friend nonstop apply for over a year before he got a position). I have also seen English majors work writing reports for hedge funds making 70K off the bat (especially if they are networked and have good grades), and people walk into management consulting with any range of majors. As a lab technician--which is all you can get with a B.S. in molecular biology, biochemistry, or chemistry that is directly related to the job--you make maybe 30K in an academic setting, 45-50K in an industrial setting with zero prospects of career growth. You need a PhD to get further, and even the job market for PhDs is rough right now and can get you into a area of eternal postdoc (the academic job market is nuts, and the industrial job market is hard to break into as well) where you are stuck making 40K indefinitely after a decade of higher education.

Mathematics majors, if they are good at it often have options. There is always a need for actuarial work. But if you don't have an aptitude for it, then you're not going to pass the exams you need to pass to do that sort of work. People who work in IT, software engineering, and other areas in tech also are well compensated and have career growth, although especially in silicon valley, the environment is brutal, and if you are a shitty programmer, you're not going to do well there.

A lot of humanities types go to law school, or get certified to teach. I have also seen people do editorial work, work at consulting firms, go into journalism, do marketing work, and work at non-profits. Obviously there is a range of compensation in these areas. Law school is a gamble, but the super driven get into Big Law or a federal clerkship or get a scholarship and work for a regional firm (and most of the people I know who go to law school go to a top 10, mostly Harvard, Yale, and Chicago, and or make smart decisions about where they want to practice regionally and go to a school with a strong regional reputation).

What I haven't seen, despite concerns on this board, is that driven humanities kids don't do fine at the end of the day. I also see lazy science kids floundering. And when I look at the range of compensation and the unemployment rate, there is a slight difference, but not nearly as stark as everyone has led me to believe my whole life. I am a science major, and I think majoring in science is great if someone has the aptitude. But not everyone has the aptitude, and not everyone is cut out to go into science or medicine.

And I think a lot of the corporate CEOs saying they have to look overseas comes from cheapness on their part. They can pay foreigners less, and threaten their employment status with a visa. There is a glut of PhDs in the sciences right now, and most of the issue here comes from a lack of initiative to train entry level employees coming from CEOs. Nearly every job requires three years of experience, and it becomes a catch 22 in highly technical fields.

This

You are wrong!

I work in high tech and there is a dearth of qualified candidates so this is not something made up by corporate CEOs as a rationalization to obtain cheap labor. When we need someone with the right background, our first and preferred option is to hire someone locally but if we cannot find the right people we sub-contract the work usually to companies that hire people from abroad.

We also do hire people who are out of college and provide them the training and experience but it is difficult to find the right candidates and companies compete for the best individuals. If it is a choice between a mediocre candidate and outsourcing the work, most companies do the latter and it has less to do with the cost and more to do with getting the job done.

This is the reality of what is happening and to think that it is all about the bottom line when it comes to hiring people with the right technical skills is delusional.

[Anonymous]

I'm sure it is field dependent. In much of the sciences (chemistry, pharma, biotechnology, molecular biology) with graduate degrees, the lack if initiative to train newly minted PhDs in favor of cheap labor is an issue that is discussed extensively (training is expensive). A lot of science has become a visa mill.

[Anonymous]

To answer the original question - go state if you are in a state with a good, state-run system, like CA or VA (I don't know anything about MD). The VA schools offer exceptional value for under $10K a year (excluding room and board). If you are going for "name" then do it at the grad level (and, again, some of the state universities have amazing Masters and Ph.D programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To answer the original question - go state if you are in a state with a good, state-run system, like CA or VA (I don't know anything about MD). The VA schools offer exceptional value for under $10K a year (excluding room and board). If you are going for "name" then do it at the grad level (and, again, some of the state universities have amazing Masters and Ph.D programs.

I am in total agreement with your comments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To answer the original question - go state if you are in a state with a good, state-run system, like CA or VA (I don't know anything about MD). The VA schools offer exceptional value for under $10K a year (excluding room and board). If you are going for "name" then do it at the grad level (and, again, some of the state universities have amazing Masters and Ph.D programs.

I understand this and it makes sense. But what if your kid doesn't get into the top state school? For us that would be UVA or W&M. If those doors are closed, is it worthwhile to spend $$ on the best private college/university DC can get into, or go to one of the less selective state schools?

[Anonymous]

This

You are wrong!

I work in high tech and there is a dearth of qualified candidates so this is not something made up by corporate CEOs as a rationalization to obtain cheap labor. When we need someone with the right background, our first and preferred option is to hire someone locally but if we cannot find the right people we sub-contract the work usually to companies that hire people from abroad.

We also do hire people who are out of college and provide them the training and experience but it is difficult to find the right candidates and companies compete for the best individuals. If it is a choice between a mediocre candidate and outsourcing the work, most companies do the latter and it has less to do with the cost and more to do with getting the job done.

This is the reality of what is happening and to think that it is all about the bottom line when it comes to hiring people with the right technical skills is delusional.

Apparently I'm not the only one who thinks that industry is doing a lack of training and compensation, and the STEM shortage is a myth, largely perpetuated by CEOs

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865586969/Is-the-STEM-shortage-a-manufactured-crisis.html?pg=all:
http://spectrum.ieee.org/at-work/education/the-stem-crisis-is-a-myth
http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2014/01/29/what_stem_shortage_where_how.php
http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2013/09/03/the_myth_of_the_stem_shortage_in_detail.php
http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2013/05/21/promoting_stem_education_foolishly.php

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We will always need good sociologists to figure out why society is so messed up!

They can refer back to this thread. You know why so many people (especially here) are miserable? It's because every decision is motivated by money. What happened to encouraging kids to follow their passions? One of my college kids was pre-med and doing fantastic in the program. At the start of her senior year she switched her major to special education. We are thrilled because she is doing what she wants to do. She thought she wanted to be a pediatric psychiatrist. She discover that what she really wants to do is work with children who have suffered brain injury. She won't make nearly as much money. But I think she made a great decision.

We have three in college in three different states. All three chose very different schools. One is at an Ivy. One is at a large well-know state school. The other is at a very small public university that most people have never heard of. Each chose the school because they felt a connection with the college not because of how much money they might earn.

I will definitely encourage my child to follow a passion as a[b] hobby, not an educational path. I strongly believe my child will not be happy as a starving artist. I believe the whole 'follow your passion' movement is a crock....but I won't push my child into a path which is abhorrent.[/b]

+100

exactly what I told my kid who is in 8th grade. She is a wonderful writer. I told her writing is a terrific hobby but it won't pay the bills unless you become like JK Rolling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To answer the original question - go state if you are in a state with a good, state-run system, like CA or VA (I don't know anything about MD). The VA schools offer exceptional value for under $10K a year (excluding room and board). If you are going for "name" then do it at the grad level (and, again, some of the state universities have amazing Masters and Ph.D programs.

I understand this and it makes sense. But what if your kid doesn't get into the top state school? For us that would be UVA or W&M. If those doors are closed, is it worthwhile to spend $$ on the best private college/university DC can get into, or go to one of the less selective state schools?

It really depends on your child and what they are comfortable with. IMO state colleges are the way to go. Spend your big bucks
on further education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We will always need good sociologists to figure out why society is so messed up!

They can refer back to this thread. You know why so many people (especially here) are miserable? It's because every decision is motivated by money. What happened to encouraging kids to follow their passions? One of my college kids was pre-med and doing fantastic in the program. At the start of her senior year she switched her major to special education. We are thrilled because she is doing what she wants to do. She thought she wanted to be a pediatric psychiatrist. She discover that what she really wants to do is work with children who have suffered brain injury. She won't make nearly as much money. But I think she made a great decision.

We have three in college in three different states. All three chose very different schools. One is at an Ivy. One is at a large well-know state school. The other is at a very small public university that most people have never heard of. Each chose the school because they felt a connection with the college not because of how much money they might earn.

I will definitely encourage my child to follow a passion as a[b] hobby, not an educational path. I strongly believe my child will not be happy as a starving artist. I believe the whole 'follow your passion' movement is a crock....but I won't push my child into a path which is abhorrent.[/b]

+100

exactly what I told my kid who is in 8th grade. She is a wonderful writer. I told her writing is a terrific hobby but it won't pay the bills unless you become like JK Rolling.

My kid really wants to write and direct movies. I told him to go for it. He is planning on getting a degree in film studies with a minor in creative writing. I am pushing him to get as many technical classes in film making as he can, because those skills will keep him employed while he works on being Rich and Famous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To answer the original question - go state if you are in a state with a good, state-run system, like CA or VA (I don't know anything about MD). The VA schools offer exceptional value for under $10K a year (excluding room and board). If you are going for "name" then do it at the grad level (and, again, some of the state universities have amazing Masters and Ph.D programs.

I understand this and it makes sense. But what if your kid doesn't get into the top state school? For us that would be UVA or W&M. If those doors are closed, is it worthwhile to spend $$ on the best private college/university DC can get into, or go to one of the less selective state schools?

This is entirely dependent on the major. If you are going to be an engineer, science major, education major, nursing major, or are headed for graduate school then yes, a less selective state school is fine. My brother got into Washington University School of Medicine with a biology degree from Northern Arizona University. The path might be a little longer for kids with those degrees, but they can absolutely position themselves to excel as they move up their career ladder.

If your kid wants to go straight to Wall Street with a bachelor's degree, or into a government position, or into publishing in New York, then the best possible private school is probably the way to go.

[Anonymous]

This is the world's oldest question. I know a lot of people from the University of Podunk who have done well while I see top 25 grads who are not exactly setting the world on fire. Does the school name carry you for the rest of your life? Only if you produce strong results.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Don't spend big dollars on a sociology degree even from Yale or NYU

Well, according to this chart, sociology majors make a median of 45K, which is better than counseling psychology (29K), about the same as English (48K), and worse, but not an order of magnitude worse from even some STEM majors (biochemistry 53K, biological engineering 50K, chemistry 57K). From this chart, it looks to me like all this angst about what to major in matters little. In less you are in a hot engineering field, likely getting a degree at all means that your earnings will cluster around 40-55K without grad school.

You know who was a successful ivy league sociology major? Michelle Obama.

So....good major if you are a beneficiary of affirmative action at every step in your life. Otherwise, not so great.

[Anonymous]

If she is interested in Sociology she should go to UW Madison for graduate school. They are tops for PhD in Sociology. Just get really good grades in undergraduate not matter where she goes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

There is nothing wrong with pursuing a career which enables one to have a comfortable lifestyle even if one is not passionate about it.

I think this works well for some people who are pragmatic and put a high value on living a financially comfortable life. For others, doing a job they love is more important than having a lot of money, and doing a job that just pays the bills is soul sucking. Know which type of person you are. That is my advice.