very low normal/possible very slight MR

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Writing and reading are hard, but she has made good progress with tutoring. She never had trouble with math facts, but word problems and prealgebra are hard. She has been excused from foreign language class per recommendation of slp. Very concrete. Appears to have trouble remembering things (e.g., tutor keeps reteaching procedures for math), but neuropsych did not reveal significant memory issues. No attention issues.

OP, the testing you did sounds incomplete. I think your DD does have some undiagnosed LDs,

"A short-term memory disability can occur with information learned through what one sees – visual short-term memory disability – or with information learned through what one hears – auditory short-term memory disability. Often the two are combined...a teacher may go over a math concept in class until your daughter understands it – she's concentrating on it. Yet when she comes home that night and does her homework, she has completely forgotten how to do the problems.

It's from the link I posted earlier: http://www.ldonline.org/article/What_Are_Learning_Disabilities%3F

Learning disabilities are diagnosed when an individual has uneven skills, and when their academic performance isn't in keeping with their measured potential.

In this case, it sounds like the OP's daughter's performance is more uneven. She has difficulties with processing, and memory, that result in difficulty in reading, writing, and math. However, these difficulties are in proportion to her overall intellectual disabilities. So, she doesn't meet criteria as a student with learning disabilities, because her IQ is too low, but also doesn't meet criteria as a student with intellectual disabilities, because her IQ is too high. She's caught in the middle and therefore doesn't qualify for the services she needs to succeed. Luckily, her parents seem to have stepped up and provided her with an appropriate school, and a range of supportive services, as evidenced by the fact that she's happy and making academic progress. Ironically, however, the high quality of education and services that she has received have probably increased her IQ, and reduced the gap between her "potential" and "ability", making it even more likely that she won't qualify for services in a public school setting.

This is, in my opinion, a gaping hole in IDEA.

Your description of LDs doesn't make sense:
http://nichcy.org/disability/specific/ld

Learning difficulties don't have to be in proportion to your overall intellectual abilities.

Learning disabilities are only diagnosed when a child's learning isn't in keeping with their intellectual capacity. So, a child with a low IQ, who has equally low academic skills may have "learning difficulties" but won't meet the IDEA definition of Specific Learning Disabilities. That's the situation with the OP's child. Her skills are low, and she benefits from support, but because she's "living up to her potential" so to speak, she doesn't meet the criteria for SLD, and although her abilities are low they are not low enough to meet the criteria for an intellectual disability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She goes to a small progressive school. She is very happy there.


3) You might look at faith based options. In this area, both the Catholic Church and some of the Jewish schools, have a commitment to supporting all learners. As far as Catholic schools in MD, Brookewood (very small, very Catholic), Holy Child, and Holy Cross all have relatively wide definitions of who they accept and serve. For other jurisdictions and religions/denominations I can't give specific denominations, but it's worth exploring.

4) You might look at some of the very small schools in the area. Nora School is one that I've heard good things about, and that seems to accept a variety of students. New School of Northern Virginia is another to explore.

Holy Child would not be a good option for your dd. Even though they have a "program" for students with learning differences, it is best for girls with ADHD or an extremely mild LD who need extended time. They offer extended time and kurzweil for texts but they really don't understand kids with significant issues. The course work is very traditional and requires a lot of memorization that would not play to your DD's strengths. I am speaking from experience with this school.

If you are in Montgomery County, I urge you to contact your local high school. MCPS offers many different tracks for students and the special ed teachers have worked with students like your daughter. There are multiple options to fulfill the foreign language requirement (sign language, no language). They offer work internships and as other posters have said, classes with support. You can go on a tour and your daughter can spend a day at the local high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Writing and reading are hard, but she has made good progress with tutoring. She never had trouble with math facts, but word problems and prealgebra are hard. She has been excused from foreign language class per recommendation of slp. Very concrete. Appears to have trouble remembering things (e.g., tutor keeps reteaching procedures for math), but neuropsych did not reveal significant memory issues. No attention issues.

OP, the testing you did sounds incomplete. I think your DD does have some undiagnosed LDs,

"A short-term memory disability can occur with information learned through what one sees – visual short-term memory disability – or with information learned through what one hears – auditory short-term memory disability. Often the two are combined...a teacher may go over a math concept in class until your daughter understands it – she's concentrating on it. Yet when she comes home that night and does her homework, she has completely forgotten how to do the problems.

It's from the link I posted earlier: http://www.ldonline.org/article/What_Are_Learning_Disabilities%3F

Learning disabilities are diagnosed when an individual has uneven skills, and when their academic performance isn't in keeping with their measured potential.

In this case, it sounds like the OP's daughter's performance is more uneven. She has difficulties with processing, and memory, that result in difficulty in reading, writing, and math. However, these difficulties are in proportion to her overall intellectual disabilities. So, she doesn't meet criteria as a student with learning disabilities, because her IQ is too low, but also doesn't meet criteria as a student with intellectual disabilities, because her IQ is too high. She's caught in the middle and therefore doesn't qualify for the services she needs to succeed. Luckily, her parents seem to have stepped up and provided her with an appropriate school, and a range of supportive services, as evidenced by the fact that she's happy and making academic progress. Ironically, however, the high quality of education and services that she has received have probably increased her IQ, and reduced the gap between her "potential" and "ability", making it even more likely that she won't qualify for services in a public school setting.

This is, in my opinion, a gaping hole in IDEA.

Your description of LDs doesn't make sense:
http://nichcy.org/disability/specific/ld

Learning difficulties don't have to be in proportion to your overall intellectual abilities.

It makes sense to me. We were told by everyone who tested our son that MR was diagnosed when all skills were low, but LDs were diagnosed when there's a big discrepancy in scores. My son's visual skills are more than 20 points higher than his verbal skills, hence his LD status.

[Anonymous]

Thanks everyone for all your suggestions. I guess I don't want to give the evaluator's name as that would probably out me. It is someone who is pretty well regarded and was on the recommended list of the school that has said my DD is most likely not a candidate for their school. S/he is also recommended in other contexts too.

[Anonymous]

OP again - for those of you recommending the public schools (in our case MoCo) - do they really work with kids like my kid? On the intelligence test, she scores low normal (but normal). There was one other test where she scored a bit below normal. The evaluator made some comment about "we don't use the term mentally retarded anymore" which freaked me out and I put in the title of this thread "possible very slight MR", but I don't even really know that the evaluator was calling my kid a little bit MR.

Anyway - this evaluator, as well as others over the years, have always said that my daughter would get little to no services from a public school.

The one thing my daughter has requested in a high school is that it be small - something you are not going to get in a MoCo public high school.

Thanks again for all the comments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Writing and reading are hard, but she has made good progress with tutoring. She never had trouble with math facts, but word problems and prealgebra are hard. She has been excused from foreign language class per recommendation of slp. Very concrete. Appears to have trouble remembering things (e.g., tutor keeps reteaching procedures for math), but neuropsych did not reveal significant memory issues. No attention issues.

OP, the testing you did sounds incomplete. I think your DD does have some undiagnosed LDs,

"A short-term memory disability can occur with information learned through what one sees – visual short-term memory disability – or with information learned through what one hears – auditory short-term memory disability. Often the two are combined...a teacher may go over a math concept in class until your daughter understands it – she's concentrating on it. Yet when she comes home that night and does her homework, she has completely forgotten how to do the problems.

It's from the link I posted earlier: http://www.ldonline.org/article/What_Are_Learning_Disabilities%3F

Learning disabilities are diagnosed when an individual has uneven skills, and when their academic performance isn't in keeping with their measured potential.

In this case, it sounds like the OP's daughter's performance is more uneven. She has difficulties with processing, and memory, that result in difficulty in reading, writing, and math. However, these difficulties are in proportion to her overall intellectual disabilities. So, she doesn't meet criteria as a student with learning disabilities, because her IQ is too low, but also doesn't meet criteria as a student with intellectual disabilities, because her IQ is too high. She's caught in the middle and therefore doesn't qualify for the services she needs to succeed. Luckily, her parents seem to have stepped up and provided her with an appropriate school, and a range of supportive services, as evidenced by the fact that she's happy and making academic progress. Ironically, however, the high quality of education and services that she has received have probably increased her IQ, and reduced the gap between her "potential" and "ability", making it even more likely that she won't qualify for services in a public school setting.

This is, in my opinion, a gaping hole in IDEA.

Your description of LDs doesn't make sense:
http://nichcy.org/disability/specific/ld

Learning difficulties don't have to be in proportion to your overall intellectual abilities.

It makes sense to me. We were told by everyone who tested our son that MR was diagnosed when all skills were low, but LDs were diagnosed when there's a big discrepancy in scores. My son's visual skills are more than 20 points higher than his verbal skills, hence his LD status.

in "the 2004 reauthorization of IDEA, how LD is determined has been expanded. IDEA now requires that states adopt criteria that:

must not require the use of a severe discrepancy between intellectual ability and achievement in determining whether a child has a specific learning disability"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks everyone for all your suggestions. I guess I don't want to give the evaluator's name as that would probably out me. It is someone who is pretty well regarded and was on the recommended list of the school that has said my DD is most likely not a candidate for their school. S/he is also recommended in other contexts too.

OP, did you actually apply to the school you were interested in?

I know at least one of the testers at Mindwell will tell parents a child isn't suited for X, Y, Z school. The only way to know for certain is if you talk with the actual school. An educational consultant to help you identify schools and/or fight for accommodations if needed in a public school.

Also, I wondered if your DD was screened for APD. This description made me think of your DD:
http://www.diannecraft.org/low-iq-fact-or-interpretation/

Best of luck to you on this journey. I know it's hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Writing and reading are hard, but she has made good progress with tutoring. She never had trouble with math facts, but word problems and prealgebra are hard. She has been excused from foreign language class per recommendation of slp. Very concrete. Appears to have trouble remembering things (e.g., tutor keeps reteaching procedures for math), but neuropsych did not reveal significant memory issues. No attention issues.

OP, the testing you did sounds incomplete. I think your DD does have some undiagnosed LDs,

"A short-term memory disability can occur with information learned through what one sees – visual short-term memory disability – or with information learned through what one hears – auditory short-term memory disability. Often the two are combined...a teacher may go over a math concept in class until your daughter understands it – she's concentrating on it. Yet when she comes home that night and does her homework, she has completely forgotten how to do the problems.

It's from the link I posted earlier: http://www.ldonline.org/article/What_Are_Learning_Disabilities%3F

Learning disabilities are diagnosed when an individual has uneven skills, and when their academic performance isn't in keeping with their measured potential.

In this case, it sounds like the OP's daughter's performance is more uneven. She has difficulties with processing, and memory, that result in difficulty in reading, writing, and math. However, these difficulties are in proportion to her overall intellectual disabilities. So, she doesn't meet criteria as a student with learning disabilities, because her IQ is too low, but also doesn't meet criteria as a student with intellectual disabilities, because her IQ is too high. She's caught in the middle and therefore doesn't qualify for the services she needs to succeed. Luckily, her parents seem to have stepped up and provided her with an appropriate school, and a range of supportive services, as evidenced by the fact that she's happy and making academic progress. Ironically, however, the high quality of education and services that she has received have probably increased her IQ, and reduced the gap between her "potential" and "ability", making it even more likely that she won't qualify for services in a public school setting.

This is, in my opinion, a gaping hole in IDEA.

Your description of LDs doesn't make sense:
http://nichcy.org/disability/specific/ld

Learning difficulties don't have to be in proportion to your overall intellectual abilities.

It makes sense to me. We were told by everyone who tested our son that MR was diagnosed when all skills were low, but LDs were diagnosed when there's a big discrepancy in scores. My son's visual skills are more than 20 points higher than his verbal skills, hence his LD status.

in "the 2004 reauthorization of IDEA, how LD is determined has been expanded. IDEA now requires that states adopt criteria that:

must not require the use of a severe discrepancy between intellectual ability and achievement in determining whether a child has a specific learning disability"

Not the same thing. My son's verbal and visual skills have the wide gap, which signifies the LD. LD and MR are different things, and the IDEA is for school purposes.

[Anonymous]

OP,

I would get the ball rolling and have your DD tested via the public schools to see if they think she qualifies for accommodations. Her SLP, current teachers and tutors could do a one page summary of where they think her deficits are and where she might need possible accommodations. Find the specific legal language and what is available so that their recommendations can reflect that.

There are "cluster" programs which differ from the college prep route:
http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/curriculum/careerprograms/

A ed consultant can help you sort it out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks everyone for all your suggestions. I guess I don't want to give the evaluator's name as that would probably out me. It is someone who is pretty well regarded and was on the recommended list of the school that has said my DD is most likely not a candidate for their school. S/he is also recommended in other contexts too.

Out you to whom? The evaluator? Unlikely, as most evaluators see tons of kids.

[Anonymous]

Curious as well, and curious about what school told you you werent a candidate.

[Anonymous]

15:43, We are not talking about your son. OP's DD's scores were low across the board. Wide score discrepancies are not the only indicator that a child has an LD.

I have no idea if OP's DD has an LD or not, but it is possible for a child can have low scores across the board can still have an LD. (Yes, there is a difference between intellectual disability and LD. But it doesn't sound like the OP's kid falls into that category either.)

[Anonymous]

OP,

Test scores are only one piece of the puzzle. You will need to factor in current grades and teacher recommendations. Any academic work up until high level is just prep and doesn't go on hs transcript unless student is taking hs classes for credit. Once you get to the high school level, your DD will need credits in order to graduate. There are state requirements and most schools require 4 years of english, 3-4 years of history, math, science etc. There are different ways to fulfill language requirements and electives.

In my experience, you need to look at how the classes are being taught and how they are assessed. For example in English, is the vocabulary test strict memorization or perhaps a matching quiz. For history, are there opportunities to do projects to show mastery of the subject or are there only tests and quizzes. In math, are the students quizzed frequently or do they rely on major test for the grade. Are there opportunities to retake a quiz or revise a paper if the first grade wasn't satisfactory? How much homework is given? Does the school prefer quantity over a smaller amount?

I would cast a wide net and look at McLean, Lab, Chelsea, Katherine Thomas, Sienna, Kingsbury, Commonwealth Academy (VA)

My DD has significant LD's, has adhd and struggles academically. She is at a well-regarded MCPS high school. She finished her freshman year. This is what she took and how she fared. She has an IEP.
She was offered two options for her classes: on-grade level with support or self-contained. She chose on-grade level with support for english, science, and history. She really struggles in math and was in a self-contained class of 10 students with one teacher and 2 paras. The other classes had about 25 students in them and had para support. The math teacher was great. Emailed parents 2 times a week and offered support during school, lunch, and after school. She did not take a language and opted for a resource class. In resource, she was able to finished tests which she needed more time on, got help with organization, and get help in individual classes. Her accommodations are extended time, online readers for texts and for taking test, provided notes of class. Her elective was art which she loved. The work was very manageable. She was able to retake some math quizzes and some assignments in science. She did well in all her subject except for Algebra which she really struggles with.
Because of her IEP, she is on the radar screen and the teachers are monitoring her progress. I know you want a small school for your DD but I wanted to let you know how it is in public school.

You said your dd would probably not be eligible for services. Services usually mean OT, speech, physical therapy. At the high school level, there are some reading classes for students such as Read 180
but high students are encourage to be independent and self-advocate for themselves. She sounds like a great kid and good luck in your search for a school.

[Anonymous]

It sounds like OP's DD is a struggling learner. Probably has a IQ between 70-85. This is hard because she is not technically disabled but still needs support to do well in regular classroom which is probably more for the average kids (iq 85-115). I don't know why the previous posters insist that she has to have a LD or more things going on. I am not sure public school is the best place to be for her as it is very likely she won't be given a IEP. Schools like the McLean school may work.

[Anonymous]

MCPS educator here

She will be given an IEP and accommodations to access the curriculum.