very low normal/possible very slight MR

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Writing and reading are hard, but she has made good progress with tutoring. She never had trouble with math facts, but word problems and prealgebra are hard. She has been excused from foreign language class per recommendation of slp. Very concrete. Appears to have trouble remembering things (e.g., tutor keeps reteaching procedures for math), but neuropsych did not reveal significant memory issues. No attention issues.


She loves school now and I would like her to continue to do so. That is my main goal.

Where is she at school now? Can you tell us the "type" of school if you aren't comfortable naming a specific school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Writing and reading are hard, but she has made good progress with tutoring. She never had trouble with math facts, but word problems and prealgebra are hard. She has been excused from foreign language class per recommendation of slp. Very concrete. Appears to have trouble remembering things (e.g., tutor keeps reteaching procedures for math), but neuropsych did not reveal significant memory issues. No attention issues.

OP, the testing you did sounds incomplete. I think your DD does have some undiagnosed LDs,

"A short-term memory disability can occur with information learned through what one sees – visual short-term memory disability – or with information learned through what one hears – auditory short-term memory disability. Often the two are combined...a teacher may go over a math concept in class until your daughter understands it – she's concentrating on it. Yet when she comes home that night and does her homework, she has completely forgotten how to do the problems.

It's from the link I posted earlier: http://www.ldonline.org/article/What_Are_Learning_Disabilities%3F

[Anonymous]

She goes to a small progressive school. She is very happy there.

She had recent extensive neuropsych testing from a reputable practitioner. The problem with an ld diagnosis for her is that her performance IQ scores are not higher than the other scores which means that the well known ld type schools will not take her. In fact in some sense she does not have a disorder since her IQ scores are in the the normal range (low but still considered normal). K I am OK with that except it means it is hard to find a private school placement for her and she is not eligible for services in public schools (except maybe accomodations) plus public schools are just too big for her.

We do have one more year at the progressive school so do have some time.

[Anonymous]

Hi OP- I know you didn't ask, and you may already know, but I wanted to share information that iron deficiency has been linked to IQ. My DD's physician tested her and found that she was iron deficient and encouraged me to supplement her iron because of the link with IQ. I had no idea. My apologies for taking this off tangent!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/864446.stm

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Writing and reading are hard, but she has made good progress with tutoring. She never had trouble with math facts, but word problems and prealgebra are hard. She has been excused from foreign language class per recommendation of slp. Very concrete. Appears to have trouble remembering things (e.g., tutor keeps reteaching procedures for math), but neuropsych did not reveal significant memory issues. No attention issues.

OP, the testing you did sounds incomplete. I think your DD does have some undiagnosed LDs,

"A short-term memory disability can occur with information learned through what one sees – visual short-term memory disability – or with information learned through what one hears – auditory short-term memory disability. Often the two are combined...a teacher may go over a math concept in class until your daughter understands it – she's concentrating on it. Yet when she comes home that night and does her homework, she has completely forgotten how to do the problems.

It's from the link I posted earlier: http://www.ldonline.org/article/What_Are_Learning_Disabilities%3F

Learning disabilities are diagnosed when an individual has uneven skills, and when their academic performance isn't in keeping with their measured potential.

In this case, it sounds like the OP's daughter's performance is more uneven. She has difficulties with processing, and memory, that result in difficulty in reading, writing, and math. However, these difficulties are in proportion to her overall intellectual disabilities. So, she doesn't meet criteria as a student with learning disabilities, because her IQ is too low, but also doesn't meet criteria as a student with intellectual disabilities, because her IQ is too high. She's caught in the middle and therefore doesn't qualify for the services she needs to succeed. Luckily, her parents seem to have stepped up and provided her with an appropriate school, and a range of supportive services, as evidenced by the fact that she's happy and making academic progress. Ironically, however, the high quality of education and services that she has received have probably increased her IQ, and reduced the gap between her "potential" and "ability", making it even more likely that she won't qualify for services in a public school setting.

This is, in my opinion, a gaping hole in IDEA.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the iron suggestion PP and, yes, immediate PP, I think you have summarized my kid's situation very well. I hope we can find a place for her to continue to learn and maintain a good self esteem. She has some real skills and talents, so hope we can get her headed in the right direction.

[Anonymous]

OP,

If she doesn't have a specific LD she may still need an SN school. Schools that can be SN friendly but not actually SN can and will reject students based on WISC scores alone. Since your DD has good social skills, the school visit might give her a leg up, but she may spend the rest of the time struggling academically.

Did the tester give you any helpful feedback on appropriate schools? (Our tester at Strixruid, didn't have a clue.) If not, I would think about hiring an educational consultant who can help point you in the right direction.

You might also find these links helpful:

http://www.mansef.org/

http://exceptionalschoolsfair.com/About.html

http://www.baltimoreschild.com/dirsnschool/index.cfm?fuse1=list

If you have a year left at your current school that is good news. Work with a consultant or determine your own list and apply this fall/winter. Your ducks will be in a row and you'll at least have options for your DD next fall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She goes to a small progressive school. She is very happy there.

She had recent extensive neuropsych testing from a reputable practitioner. The problem with an ld diagnosis for her is that her performance IQ scores are not higher than the other scores which means that the well known ld type schools will not take her. In fact in some sense she does not have a disorder since her IQ scores are in the the normal range (low but still considered normal). K I am OK with that except it means it is hard to find a private school placement for her and she is not eligible for services in public schools (except maybe accomodations) plus public schools are just too big for her.

We do have one more year at the progressive school so do have some time.

That's good that you have some time. Here's some thoughts that I have:

1) If you're not in DC, I'd suggest going through the process of submitting her information to the public school, letting them evaluate her further, and having them make a plan for her. It might be that they'll find some way to qualify her, perhaps through speech and language (which doesn't require a discrepancy) or through an RTI model of LD identification. It might be that she doesn't qualify under IDEA, but that they'll have other options. I know that at our local high school, there are many programs such as Read 180, and math support classes that don't require special education status to join in. It's possible that they'll surprise you or have ideas you haven't considered. It's also possible that you'll decide in the end that it's not the right setting but you'll still have learned something about what's available in a public school setting.

2) If you are in DC, you might look at some of the smaller charter schools. Cap City, for example, has a smaller class size and uses a progressive approach.

3) You might look at faith based options. In this area, both the Catholic Church and some of the Jewish schools, have a commitment to supporting all learners. As far as Catholic schools in MD, Brookewood (very small, very Catholic), Holy Child, and Holy Cross all have relatively wide definitions of who they accept and serve. For other jurisdictions and religions/denominations I can't give specific denominations, but it's worth exploring.

4) You might look at some of the very small schools in the area. Nora School is one that I've heard good things about, and that seems to accept a variety of students. New School of Northern Virginia is another to explore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She goes to a small progressive school. She is very happy there.

She had recent extensive neuropsych testing from a reputable practitioner. The problem with an ld diagnosis for her is that her performance IQ scores are not higher than the other scores which means that the well known ld type schools will not take her. In fact in some sense she does not have a disorder since her IQ scores are in the the normal range (low but still considered normal). K I am OK with that except it means it is hard to find a private school placement for her and she is not eligible for services in public schools (except maybe accomodations) plus public schools are just too big for her.

We do have one more year at the progressive school so do have some time.

Who told you this? (It is not true.)

Also, LDs and IQ are two separate issues. You can have LDs with a very high IQ. You can have a low IQ and have LDs.

It sounds like you want to find a mainstream private school for her. If she has low scores to begin with, struggles with reading, has difficulty in remember how to solve math problems, it is very unlikely she will be accepted anywhere. Please don't live in denial.

Your DD will most likely need a SN school. I've had friends who want to dodge the SN label at all costs and apply to dozens of schools only to be rejected. Don't do this to your daughter.

[Anonymous]

Thanks all for the responses. We are looking into Catholic and possibly some other Christian schools and have heard that the Nora school accepts kids rejected by the more standard ld schools.

Immediate PP- we would like her to go to a SN school for high school, but were already told "no" by the one we were most interested in. They based the "no" on her IQ score. That was what provoked me to start this thread - my despair over this rejection. I am also afraid that some of the Catholic school SN programs may also reject her for this reasons.

[Anonymous]

12:01, 17:49, and 18:10 here (I just realized I never acknowledge that those 3 were all from me, sorry about that).

I'd look more widely at special ed schools. Kingsbury, Katharine Thomas, and the new diploma track program at Ivymount are all more forgiving in terms of IQ, Lab and Sienna are less so. I also think it couldn't hurt to call Jemicy, a lovely school, but I don't know their thoughts on IQ.

I do think, unfortunately, that you are going to have to cast a wide net. Sadly, some of the same people and organizations who advocate so well for children with LD's can be the least supportive of children with low IQ's.

Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Agree that you should look at Katherine Thomas and Ivymount, if you haven't already. They are more willing to look at kids in that borderline IQ range, and their graduates often do well in terms of further education and career and life skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks all for the responses. We are looking into Catholic and possibly some other Christian schools and have heard that the Nora school accepts kids rejected by the more standard ld schools.

Immediate PP- we would like her to go to a SN school for high school, but were already told "no" by the one we were most interested in. They based the "no" on her IQ score. That was what provoked me to start this thread - my despair over this rejection. I am also afraid that some of the Catholic school SN programs may also reject her for this reasons.

Most every private h.s. school--faith-based, secular, progressive will have a foreign language requirement of at least a year if not more. (I doubt very much that you will be able to get a waiver.) Usually, SN schools for this are much less stringent in this area.

Getting rejected from one private SN school is disappointing but not a reason to write them all off. An educational consultant might help you target potential schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Writing and reading are hard, but she has made good progress with tutoring. She never had trouble with math facts, but word problems and prealgebra are hard. She has been excused from foreign language class per recommendation of slp. Very concrete. Appears to have trouble remembering things (e.g., tutor keeps reteaching procedures for math), but neuropsych did not reveal significant memory issues. No attention issues.

OP, the testing you did sounds incomplete. I think your DD does have some undiagnosed LDs,

"A short-term memory disability can occur with information learned through what one sees – visual short-term memory disability – or with information learned through what one hears – auditory short-term memory disability. Often the two are combined...a teacher may go over a math concept in class until your daughter understands it – she's concentrating on it. Yet when she comes home that night and does her homework, she has completely forgotten how to do the problems.

It's from the link I posted earlier: http://www.ldonline.org/article/What_Are_Learning_Disabilities%3F

Learning disabilities are diagnosed when an individual has uneven skills, and when their academic performance isn't in keeping with their measured potential.

In this case, it sounds like the OP's daughter's performance is more uneven. She has difficulties with processing, and memory, that result in difficulty in reading, writing, and math. However, these difficulties are in proportion to her overall intellectual disabilities. So, she doesn't meet criteria as a student with learning disabilities, because her IQ is too low, but also doesn't meet criteria as a student with intellectual disabilities, because her IQ is too high. She's caught in the middle and therefore doesn't qualify for the services she needs to succeed. Luckily, her parents seem to have stepped up and provided her with an appropriate school, and a range of supportive services, as evidenced by the fact that she's happy and making academic progress. Ironically, however, the high quality of education and services that she has received have probably increased her IQ, and reduced the gap between her "potential" and "ability", making it even more likely that she won't qualify for services in a public school setting.

This is, in my opinion, a gaping hole in IDEA.

Your description of LDs doesn't make sense:
http://nichcy.org/disability/specific/ld

Learning difficulties don't have to be in proportion to your overall intellectual abilities.

[Anonymous]

OP, who did her testing?