Pullouts in Kindergarten

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think that generally, people, teachers, experts usually tell you if your kid is gifted, not the other way around.

Sometimes the teachers do not know.

I came across this anecdote in a report and thought that it really demonstrated an important element of "it's not so easy to see the highly gifted":

Teachers are at somewhat of a disadvantage in attempting to identify highly gifted
children, as they often present themselves as difficult, obstinate, and willfully
disobedient. One researcher provides the example of a child in pre-kindergarten who
was asked to “pass a cup,” with the intention being that all the cups be sent over to the
teacher. The child was struck with the double meaning of the word “pass,” and instead
repeatedly and deliberately walked by the cup. When asked why he did not pass the cup
as instructed, he responded that he had, in fact, passed the cup several times! The
teacher, only desiring to clean up the space, marked the child as being disobedient.9

http://isminc.com/documents/research/general/Identifying-Accommodating-the-Highly-Gifted.pdf

[Anonymous]

Giftedness is usually considered simply IQ 130 and above. Not so rare in FCPS. People may be thinking of profoundly gifted when speaking of rare giftedness.

http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/highly_profoundly.htm

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that generally, people, teachers, experts usually tell you if your kid is gifted, not the other way around.

Sometimes the teachers do not know.

I came across this anecdote in a report and thought that it really demonstrated an important element of "it's not so easy to see the highly gifted":

Teachers are at somewhat of a disadvantage in attempting to identify highly gifted
children, as they often present themselves as difficult, obstinate, and willfully
disobedient. One researcher provides the example of a child in pre-kindergarten who
was asked to “pass a cup,” with the intention being that all the cups be sent over to the
teacher. The child was struck with the double meaning of the word “pass,” and instead
repeatedly and deliberately walked by the cup. When asked why he did not pass the cup
as instructed, he responded that he had, in fact, passed the cup several times! The
teacher, only desiring to clean up the space, marked the child as being disobedient.9

http://isminc.com/documents/research/general/Identifying-Accommodating-the-Highly-Gifted.pdf

Thanks for the link! One sentence I noticed: "The most highly gifted students often perform poorly in school due to boredom and frustration."

I have read in other places that gifted students can be bored. Some people on DCUM report that their gifted children are never bored in school, but others say that their gifted children are bored. I am now thinking that bored vs. not bored is independent of giftedness. Some gifted children can entertain themselves and others cannot, just as some nongifted children can entertain themselves and others not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that generally, people, teachers, experts usually tell you if your kid is gifted, not the other way around.

Sometimes the teachers do not know.

I came across this anecdote in a report and thought that it really demonstrated an important element of "it's not so easy to see the highly gifted":

Teachers are at somewhat of a disadvantage in attempting to identify highly gifted
children, as they often present themselves as difficult, obstinate, and willfully
disobedient. One researcher provides the example of a child in pre-kindergarten who
was asked to “pass a cup,” with the intention being that all the cups be sent over to the
teacher. The child was struck with the double meaning of the word “pass,” and instead
repeatedly and deliberately walked by the cup. When asked why he did not pass the cup
as instructed, he responded that he had, in fact, passed the cup several times! The
teacher, only desiring to clean up the space, marked the child as being disobedient.9

http://isminc.com/documents/research/general/Identifying-Accommodating-the-Highly-Gifted.pdf

Thanks for the link! One sentence I noticed: "The most highly gifted students often perform poorly in school due to boredom and frustration."

I have read in other places that gifted students can be bored. Some people on DCUM report that their gifted children are never bored in school, but others say that their gifted children are bored. I am now thinking that bored vs. not bored is independent of giftedness. Some gifted children can entertain themselves and others cannot, just as some nongifted children can entertain themselves and others not.

I agree with you!

My two DCs both have ADHD and they have not been bored in school as they are (too!) often thinking about other things as in "let's review the Virginia history reading packet" goes in one ear where it is met with the thought of "Look! A squirrel!"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our school doesn't start pull-outs until first grade.

Oh my! Think of how behind all the smart kids will be by then. . .

You really don't understand what having a child who is truly gifted and has an insatiable need for knowledge is like, do you? For some of us it has nothing to do with status or parental pushing and everything to do with special needs. Please educate yourself on the Hoagies website and sengifted.org.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I definitely agree that not all AAP kids are gifted but do not understand why people on DCUM discount the possibility that someone is actually gifted.

Because "their kid" is not gifted so if their kid cannot be gifted, then yours cannot be gifted, either. Because "it's not fair."

I don't think people on DCUM discount the possibility that someone is gifted. I just think that given it's so rare, people get skeptical when every time a child has been in a math pull-out, the talk quickly turns to how the child needs on a special track to protect his or her "gifts". Kids are not such fragile flowers and constantly wanting to smooth their path, though often well-intentioned, isn't necessarily the way to foster an Einstein.

I had a friend years ago, who told me her daughter was a great reader in first or second grade. Everyone always talked about how this girl was SO advanced. One day my friend went to her daughter's teacher and asked: "Do you think she could be gifted?" The teacher smiled an patted my friends hand, but her words were unequivocal. "No, I think she's an above average student who loves to read."

I think that generally, people, teachers, experts usually tell you if your kid is gifted, not the other way around.

My daughter is an above average student who loves to read. Gifted or not, I hope she can be instructed at the level she is at.

[Anonymous]

In my school, the more advanced readers were pulled out in the Spring semester. In 1st grade, for both reading and math, the classes were grouped by ability, and they were taught at their level. If the student was on the lower end of reading and not meeting benchmark like my dd, then they received special help and had reading 4 days per week in addition to the regular reading class. My dd is actually very smart, but I am going to have her evaluated for an LD.

[Anonymous]

I find it amazing that anyone can write (or believe!) that "gifted kids are never bored." Of course they are - everyone gets bored sometimes, including gifted kids. The source of the boredom is another question.

My highly gifted son easily finds ways to entertain himself when he is bored in school. Unfortunately, his teacher doesn't appreciate his methods of self-entertainment (art and socializing). She wants everyone paying attention to the same thing at the same time. Whether you already know the material is irrelevant. You still have to work on sounding out the words and partnering with another student.

My son's teacher pairs kids off as follows: rank kids in order of ability. Draw a line in the middle, creating two ranked lists. Pair up kids by taking one kid from each end of the spectrum so that the most advanced in that half ends up with the least advanced in that half. The only kids well matched are, of course, the ones in the middle as their abilities ended up similar to their partner.

[Anonymous]

We got a letter in December of K that DS would have weekly small group pull outs. He attends a Title 1 school with a Young Scholars program, with a full time AART. They also have whole class sessions with her. My older son attended a school with a part- time AART. She was only able to do whole class sessions.

[Anonymous]

I was wondering if the pullouts in K were just for Young Scholars programs or for non Title 1 schools as well. Just seems to be another service that isn't distributed equally in Fairfax County since DC's k program never had pullouts to 1st grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was wondering if the pullouts in K were just for Young Scholars programs or for non Title 1 schools as well. Just seems to be another service that isn't distributed equally in Fairfax County since DC's k program never had pullouts to 1st grade.

Dumb question probably but how do you know if your school has Young Scholars or is a Title I?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was wondering if the pullouts in K were just for Young Scholars programs or for non Title 1 schools as well. Just seems to be another service that isn't distributed equally in Fairfax County since DC's k program never had pullouts to 1st grade.

Dumb question probably but how do you know if your school has Young Scholars or is a Title I?

Go to the FCPS School Profile page for your school and see what programs are in place.

http://commweb.fcps.edu/schoolprofile/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was wondering if the pullouts in K were just for Young Scholars programs or for non Title 1 schools as well. Just seems to be another service that isn't distributed equally in Fairfax County since DC's k program never had pullouts to 1st grade.

Our school does not. It is a comfortably middle-upper middle class community in a very high performing area. We are not a title 1 school.

Our school does AAP pull out starting in kindergarten (math and language arts).

[Anonymous]

I was gifted...bored in kindergarten! No pullouts.

That year I learned how to turn my eyelids inside out and how to go cross eyed and roll my eyes in figure eights. It wasn't until first grade that I was able to put these two skills together.

Honestly being bored all the way through elementary school hasn't impacted me career wise. I (almost) have a PhD and a good job. I was always - my whole life- an academic underachiever but in the end I don't think that really had all that negative of an impact on my life. I am still bored in grad school...nothing really has changed!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was wondering if the pullouts in K were just for Young Scholars programs or for non Title 1 schools as well. Just seems to be another service that isn't distributed equally in Fairfax County since DC's k program never had pullouts to 1st grade.

How do you know that kids weren't getting pulled out in your child's school?

Kids get pulled out all the time for various reasons: testing, resource specialists, reading specialists, aspergers, esol, aap, etc. I imagine that the kids in the younger grades don't even think about why so and so is getting pulled out because it is so common and the teachers don't make a big deal about kids getting pulled out for any reason.

I posted earlier that my kid was pulled out starting 2nd semester in kindergarten for math, and continued in 1st grade.

In kindergarten, it was a very small group of kids. Maybe 3 or so from the class? We didn't receive a letter, but the teacher mentioned it in a conference. It was very low key. My child didn't think anything of it since so many kids get pulled out for different things. My kid also did not come home announcing "Hey mom, I get to go with the AART because I am smart". I found out by something he mentioned casually, which caused me to ask more questions, which caused me to ask at the conference.

In second, it is still a small group of kids, but a bit larger. My kid realized about 1/3 of the way through the year that the pullout was "AAP" because another child with and older sibling in AAP told all the pull out kids that is what they were doing.

So it is entirely possible that your child's school is doing pull out. If it your kid, she might not even be aware that is what is going on. If your kid is not getting pulled out, then she probably doesn't have a clue that other kids are for AAP.