current and potential immersion parents - watch out sneaky tactic to kick you out of bcc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with the RCF spanish immersion program is that it's located in a good school pyramid. Parents who are scrambling to get away from a less desirable school pyramid apply just to be in the BCC. Magnet programs should be used to draw the affluent/middle class families into the poorer communities to attend schools that would otherwise have few/limited students from middle-class families, not draw the affluent/middle class families away from the DCC, which seems to be the trend. It leaves the DCC schools with even fewer middle class families than it would have if everyone just went to their neighborhood school, it overcrowds the BCC (much to the dismay of the folks who pay the big bucks to live in that school assignment), and it makes it that much harder for parents with a genuine desire to expose their kids to a second language to get into the program because they're competing with a whole slew of applicants who just want anything but their home school. I'm sure there's a story behind the location of the program or a rule behind it or something, and maybe of the elementaries in the BCC cluster RCF has a comparatively high FARMS rate which somehow justified placing the program there, but as a policy matter, and looking at the incentive structure the program creates, my instinct is to say MCPS is doing it wrong with this program. The full immersion program should probably be in the downcounty.

One of the reasons is because BCC has the IB program which is a natural progression for kids in Immersion.

Einstein has an IB program too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do any other immersion programs feed all the way through high school?

Yes they do... SSIM can go to Blair, chinese go to Churchill.

Not true. SSIMS immersion kids go to their home high school or whatever magnet admits them. They do NOT go to Blair.

Wrong wrong wrong....

From the choice manual:


Students who reside outside the Downcounty Consortium, but attend a Consortium middle school, may participate in high school Choice, following the same process as students residing in the Consortium. These students also are assured that they may attend a Consortium high school. However, for these students, there is no guarantee of admittance to a specific high school, because they do not reside within a base area of one of the high schools. Student Choice request forms for out-of-Consortium students are processed in the second round of the student assignment process, after students residing in the Consortium have been provided with their high school assignments.

Fine, they are part of the choice program. I forgot to mention that. So their path is:

SSIMS-->home high school OR DCC high school via the choice lottery/request process (DCC includes Blair) OR magnet.

They do NOT have any special admittance to Blair (as Westland Spanish immersion kids do to BCC).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with the RCF spanish immersion program is that it's located in a good school pyramid. Parents who are scrambling to get away from a less desirable school pyramid apply just to be in the BCC. Magnet programs should be used to draw the affluent/middle class families into the poorer communities to attend schools that would otherwise have few/limited students from middle-class families, not draw the affluent/middle class families away from the DCC, which seems to be the trend. It leaves the DCC schools with even fewer middle class families than it would have if everyone just went to their neighborhood school, it overcrowds the BCC (much to the dismay of the folks who pay the big bucks to live in that school assignment), and it makes it that much harder for parents with a genuine desire to expose their kids to a second language to get into the program because they're competing with a whole slew of applicants who just want anything but their home school. I'm sure there's a story behind the location of the program or a rule behind it or something, and maybe of the elementaries in the BCC cluster RCF has a comparatively high FARMS rate which somehow justified placing the program there, but as a policy matter, and looking at the incentive structure the program creates, my instinct is to say MCPS is doing it wrong with this program. The full immersion program should probably be in the downcounty.

Westland immersion parent here. I agree that the best solution is for MCPS to establish an immersion program continuation in high school somewhere. Otherwise the kids have no option for adequate language instruction and all that work and sacrifice is greatly diminished. I for one would send my child to a downcounty high school with an immersion continuation without hesitation -- I think most of the other parents agree.

The problem here is that the BCC cluster reps are acting in bad faith by not involving their immersion family constituents (all of whom pay PTA dues, volunteer, etc.) in the decision and at least informing them. We have had NO communication from them on this point at all. Even the RCF PTA won't speak up for the interests of half of its members. It is appalling.

The second problem is that MCPS, during several meetings with Cluster Superintendent Garran, BoE member Shirley Brandman and others, promised that such a change would be conducted with great transparency and input from immersion parents, with plenty of notice. Instead, this has been done on the sly with absolutely NO input from immersion parents. This is a public school system, not a private school whose tuition is paid through taxes. We should have been involved, informed, and our children's interests also considered.

The result is there are kids who are already well ensconced in middle school at Westland, whose families have made certain decisions about application magnets, etc., who now are going to be scattered across the county for high school. Many of these schools do not have the higher level language classes or the critical mass of high-level speakers to allow kids to maintain and continue to develop their language skills.
Maybe it is time for a change, but that doesn't mean that immersion parents should be dealt with in bad faith or treated like they are carpetbaggers. I can tell you that I did not make the decision for immersion based on BCC -- in fact, my other child is not in immersion and goes to a different high school and is perfectly fine. And the BCC parents are treating immersion parents in such an elitist, "I pay more taxes than you" way that it's really offensive. We applied to a legitimate magnet program and operated under the assumption that the assurances of MCPS leadership would be followed through on.

The reality is that we are talking about a small number of kids -- about 20 - 25 per grade. It's not going to make a dent in BCC's overcrowding but it's really an unfair and deceptive way to deal with these families.

French immersion parent here and I can tell you from experience that your fear is unfounded. SSIMS French immersion kids are scattered everywhere and it works out for them. I have had three kids go through the FI program and am very familiar with how this plays out. They do FINE. There *is* adequate language instruction for them at their home and at other MCPS high schools. It works FINE.

Serious/non-sarcastic question: Why do you think the MCPS Spanish immersion kids are entitled to what none of the other immersion kids have?

There will likely never be an immersion high school for these kids. I think pursuing that amounts to tilting at windmills.

The deception you describe is a whole other story and while I know nothing about it, based on some of my experience with MCPS I believe that what you are saying is true. FWIW.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do any other immersion programs feed all the way through high school?

Yes they do... SSIM can go to Blair, chinese go to Churchill.

Not true. SSIMS immersion kids go to their home high school or whatever magnet admits them. They do NOT go to Blair.

Wrong wrong wrong....

From the choice manual:


Students who reside outside the Downcounty Consortium, but attend a Consortium middle school, may participate in high school Choice, following the same process as students residing in the Consortium. These students also are assured that they may attend a Consortium high school. However, for these students, there is no guarantee of admittance to a specific high school, because they do not reside within a base area of one of the high schools. Student Choice request forms for out-of-Consortium students are processed in the second round of the student assignment process, after students residing in the Consortium have been provided with their high school assignments.

Fine, they are part of the choice program. I forgot to mention that. So their path is:

SSIMS-->home high school OR DCC high school via the choice lottery/request process (DCC includes Blair) OR magnet.

They do NOT have any special admittance to Blair (as Westland Spanish immersion kids do to BCC).

Sigh..... They don't have it because of the DCC... It would be unfair to the others in DCC. However, the REASON they are involved in choice at all is because they are full fledged members of the community. It has nothing to do with Immersion continuation. Their whole schooling has been in the DCC just as those in RCF and Westland are ingrained into the BCC cluster.

Finally to the original point Chinese Immersion can go to Churchill, SSIM can go to choice including CAP. So the Spanish Immersion matriculation to BCC is far from unique!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with the RCF spanish immersion program is that it's located in a good school pyramid. Parents who are scrambling to get away from a less desirable school pyramid apply just to be in the BCC. Magnet programs should be used to draw the affluent/middle class families into the poorer communities to attend schools that would otherwise have few/limited students from middle-class families, not draw the affluent/middle class families away from the DCC, which seems to be the trend. It leaves the DCC schools with even fewer middle class families than it would have if everyone just went to their neighborhood school, it overcrowds the BCC (much to the dismay of the folks who pay the big bucks to live in that school assignment), and it makes it that much harder for parents with a genuine desire to expose their kids to a second language to get into the program because they're competing with a whole slew of applicants who just want anything but their home school. I'm sure there's a story behind the location of the program or a rule behind it or something, and maybe of the elementaries in the BCC cluster RCF has a comparatively high FARMS rate which somehow justified placing the program there, but as a policy matter, and looking at the incentive structure the program creates, my instinct is to say MCPS is doing it wrong with this program. The full immersion program should probably be in the downcounty.

One of the reasons is because BCC has the IB program which is a natural progression for kids in Immersion.

Einstein has an IB program too.

Cool, wherever it is Spanish Immersion should have access to it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do any other immersion programs feed all the way through high school?

Yes they do... SSIM can go to Blair, chinese go to Churchill.

Not true. SSIMS immersion kids go to their home high school or whatever magnet admits them. They do NOT go to Blair.

Wrong wrong wrong....

From the choice manual:


Students who reside outside the Downcounty Consortium, but attend a Consortium middle school, may participate in high school Choice, following the same process as students residing in the Consortium. These students also are assured that they may attend a Consortium high school. However, for these students, there is no guarantee of admittance to a specific high school, because they do not reside within a base area of one of the high schools. Student Choice request forms for out-of-Consortium students are processed in the second round of the student assignment process, after students residing in the Consortium have been provided with their high school assignments.

Fine, they are part of the choice program. I forgot to mention that. So their path is:

SSIMS-->home high school OR DCC high school via the choice lottery/request process (DCC includes Blair) OR magnet.

They do NOT have any special admittance to Blair (as Westland Spanish immersion kids do to BCC).

Sigh..... They don't have it because of the DCC... It would be unfair to the others in DCC. However, the REASON they are involved in choice at all is because they are full fledged members of the community. It has nothing to do with Immersion continuation. Their whole schooling has been in the DCC just as those in RCF and Westland are ingrained into the BCC cluster.

Finally to the original point Chinese Immersion can go to Churchill, SSIM can go to choice including CAP. So the Spanish Immersion matriculation to BCC is far from unique!

French Immersion kids participating in the DCC choice program for high school options is NOT the same thing as the entire Spanish Immersion cohort going to BCC. Not comparable, not even close. As a practical matter most of the French Immersion kids either go to a DCC school or a magnet (if they are in the DCC) or to their home school or a magnet (if they are not in the DCC). So the effect is the same as if they were scattered to the winds. There is no concentration of immersion kids at any one school in the DCC.

You are being disingenuous, using this as an argument that the "Spanish Immersion matriculation to BCC is far from unique." It is, in fact, unique.

[Anonymous]

This is all so confusing! When I was a kid, you just went to the school that was nearby and your friends from kindergarten were in your graduating class senior year. It's sad knowing my kids probably won't have that. MCPS feels a little like the death star to me. But that's just me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do any other immersion programs feed all the way through high school?

Yes they do... SSIM can go to Blair, chinese go to Churchill.

Not true. SSIMS immersion kids go to their home high school or whatever magnet admits them. They do NOT go to Blair.

Wrong wrong wrong....

From the choice manual:


Students who reside outside the Downcounty Consortium, but attend a Consortium middle school, may participate in high school Choice, following the same process as students residing in the Consortium. These students also are assured that they may attend a Consortium high school. However, for these students, there is no guarantee of admittance to a specific high school, because they do not reside within a base area of one of the high schools. Student Choice request forms for out-of-Consortium students are processed in the second round of the student assignment process, after students residing in the Consortium have been provided with their high school assignments.

Fine, they are part of the choice program. I forgot to mention that. So their path is:

SSIMS-->home high school OR DCC high school via the choice lottery/request process (DCC includes Blair) OR magnet.

They do NOT have any special admittance to Blair (as Westland Spanish immersion kids do to BCC).

Sigh..... They don't have it because of the DCC... It would be unfair to the others in DCC. However, the REASON they are involved in choice at all is because they are full fledged members of the community. It has nothing to do with Immersion continuation. Their whole schooling has been in the DCC just as those in RCF and Westland are ingrained into the BCC cluster.

Finally to the original point Chinese Immersion can go to Churchill, SSIM can go to choice including CAP. So the Spanish Immersion matriculation to BCC is far from unique!

French Immersion kids participating in the DCC choice program for high school options is NOT the same thing as the entire Spanish Immersion cohort going to BCC. Not comparable, not even close. As a practical matter most of the French Immersion kids either go to a DCC school or a magnet (if they are in the DCC) or to their home school or a magnet (if they are not in the DCC). So the effect is the same as if they were scattered to the winds. There is no concentration of immersion kids at any one school in the DCC.

You are being disingenuous, using this as an argument that the "Spanish Immersion matriculation to BCC is far from unique." It is, in fact, unique.

^^^PP here. Also note that SSIMS FI kids can only to go CAP if they are admitted. Many applied this year and most were rejected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do any other immersion programs feed all the way through high school?

Yes they do... SSIM can go to Blair, chinese go to Churchill.

Not true. SSIMS immersion kids go to their home high school or whatever magnet admits them. They do NOT go to Blair.

Wrong wrong wrong....

From the choice manual:


Students who reside outside the Downcounty Consortium, but attend a Consortium middle school, may participate in high school Choice, following the same process as students residing in the Consortium. These students also are assured that they may attend a Consortium high school. However, for these students, there is no guarantee of admittance to a specific high school, because they do not reside within a base area of one of the high schools. Student Choice request forms for out-of-Consortium students are processed in the second round of the student assignment process, after students residing in the Consortium have been provided with their high school assignments.

Fine, they are part of the choice program. I forgot to mention that. So their path is:

SSIMS-->home high school OR DCC high school via the choice lottery/request process (DCC includes Blair) OR magnet.

They do NOT have any special admittance to Blair (as Westland Spanish immersion kids do to BCC).

Sigh..... They don't have it because of the DCC... It would be unfair to the others in DCC. However, the REASON they are involved in choice at all is because they are full fledged members of the community. It has nothing to do with Immersion continuation. Their whole schooling has been in the DCC just as those in RCF and Westland are ingrained into the BCC cluster.

Finally to the original point Chinese Immersion can go to Churchill, SSIM can go to choice including CAP. So the Spanish Immersion matriculation to BCC is far from unique!

French Immersion kids participating in the DCC choice program for high school options is NOT the same thing as the entire Spanish Immersion cohort going to BCC. Not comparable, not even close. As a practical matter most of the French Immersion kids either go to a DCC school or a magnet (if they are in the DCC) or to their home school or a magnet (if they are not in the DCC). So the effect is the same as if they were scattered to the winds. There is no concentration of immersion kids at any one school in the DCC.

You are being disingenuous, using this as an argument that the "Spanish Immersion matriculation to BCC is far from unique." It is, in fact, unique.

You avoid mentioning Churchill like the plague, why is that?

Furthermore the whole Spanish cohort doesn't even go on to Westland let alone BCC. Many go to SSIM and again on to DCC.

Lastly, how is it that you know where Immersion students end up in the DCC? The reason the are not together is there is no single path to continue to like in Churchill and BCC. If there were you would see it. But at least students have the option to follow their good friends from K and up if they choose to do so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with the RCF spanish immersion program is that it's located in a good school pyramid. Parents who are scrambling to get away from a less desirable school pyramid apply just to be in the BCC. Magnet programs should be used to draw the affluent/middle class families into the poorer communities to attend schools that would otherwise have few/limited students from middle-class families, not draw the affluent/middle class families away from the DCC, which seems to be the trend. It leaves the DCC schools with even fewer middle class families than it would have if everyone just went to their neighborhood school, it overcrowds the BCC (much to the dismay of the folks who pay the big bucks to live in that school assignment), and it makes it that much harder for parents with a genuine desire to expose their kids to a second language to get into the program because they're competing with a whole slew of applicants who just want anything but their home school. I'm sure there's a story behind the location of the program or a rule behind it or something, and maybe of the elementaries in the BCC cluster RCF has a comparatively high FARMS rate which somehow justified placing the program there, but as a policy matter, and looking at the incentive structure the program creates, my instinct is to say MCPS is doing it wrong with this program. The full immersion program should probably be in the downcounty.

Westland immersion parent here. I agree that the best solution is for MCPS to establish an immersion program continuation in high school somewhere. Otherwise the kids have no option for adequate language instruction and all that work and sacrifice is greatly diminished. I for one would send my child to a downcounty high school with an immersion continuation without hesitation -- I think most of the other parents agree.

The problem here is that the BCC cluster reps are acting in bad faith by not involving their immersion family constituents (all of whom pay PTA dues, volunteer, etc.) in the decision and at least informing them. We have had NO communication from them on this point at all. Even the RCF PTA won't speak up for the interests of half of its members. It is appalling.

The second problem is that MCPS, during several meetings with Cluster Superintendent Garran, BoE member Shirley Brandman and others, promised that such a change would be conducted with great transparency and input from immersion parents, with plenty of notice. Instead, this has been done on the sly with absolutely NO input from immersion parents. This is a public school system, not a private school whose tuition is paid through taxes. We should have been involved, informed, and our children's interests also considered.

The result is there are kids who are already well ensconced in middle school at Westland, whose families have made certain decisions about application magnets, etc., who now are going to be scattered across the county for high school. Many of these schools do not have the higher level language classes or the critical mass of high-level speakers to allow kids to maintain and continue to develop their language skills.
Maybe it is time for a change, but that doesn't mean that immersion parents should be dealt with in bad faith or treated like they are carpetbaggers. I can tell you that I did not make the decision for immersion based on BCC -- in fact, my other child is not in immersion and goes to a different high school and is perfectly fine. And the BCC parents are treating immersion parents in such an elitist, "I pay more taxes than you" way that it's really offensive. We applied to a legitimate magnet program and operated under the assumption that the assurances of MCPS leadership would be followed through on.

The reality is that we are talking about a small number of kids -- about 20 - 25 per grade. It's not going to make a dent in BCC's overcrowding but it's really an unfair and deceptive way to deal with these families.

French immersion parent here and I can tell you from experience that your fear is unfounded. SSIMS French immersion kids are scattered everywhere and it works out for them. I have had three kids go through the FI program and am very familiar with how this plays out. They do FINE. There *is* adequate language instruction for them at their home and at other MCPS high schools. It works FINE.

Serious/non-sarcastic question: Why do you think the MCPS Spanish immersion kids are entitled to what none of the other immersion kids have?

There will likely never be an immersion high school for these kids. I think pursuing that amounts to tilting at windmills.

The deception you describe is a whole other story and while I know nothing about it, based on some of my experience with MCPS I believe that what you are saying is true. FWIW.

PP here -- I don't! I think all immersion kids should have an option to continue on in high school with rigorous language instruction, and that we immersion parents should be banding together to ask for this. I don't care where it is, as long as it's a semi-reasonable commute (I wouldn't go all the way to Poolesville or Gaithersburg, for example).

Rather than giving up, you should support us and work for more and better high level language options in high school!

And FWIW, someone did a survey and there are a number of MCPS high schools that don't offer anything above Spanish IV. My child is will be in Spanish IV in 9th grade, and colleges want to see more than one year of a language.

This is a step that would help keep MCPS on the cutting edge -- we should all be fighting for it! Other large districts have innovative high school programs ... why does MCPS push so hard against them?!

[Anonymous]

I have a kindergartener in the RCF spanish immersion program. I guess maybe all this is just so far off, but I can't figure out why I should care.

Can someone answer this question for me - is there a spanish immersion program continuation at BCC? If not, I'd personally rather just send my kid to SSIMS and Northwood (our home schools) because Westland and BCC are so far away.

I can see being upset if your kids are already at Westland because of course you'd want them to stay with their class on to BCC - that makes total sense to me. But if your kids are still at RCF, then they can go to SSIMS and still be with their friends for their assigned high school.

Or am I missing something?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a kindergartener in the RCF spanish immersion program. I guess maybe all this is just so far off, but I can't figure out why I should care.

Can someone answer this question for me - is there a spanish immersion program continuation at BCC? If not, I'd personally rather just send my kid to SSIMS and Northwood (our home schools) because Westland and BCC are so far away.

I can see being upset if your kids are already at Westland because of course you'd want them to stay with their class on to BCC - that makes total sense to me. But if your kids are still at RCF, then they can go to SSIMS and still be with their friends for their assigned high school.

Or am I missing something?

The answer is NO and your comment is very enlightening.

Could this entire, well-crafted, albeit poor argument, be originating from parents who are not happy with their home school and have found a way to trick the system? If so, this is really a shame. It's hugely unfair to other language immersion families (like the french families who have spoken up here) and a very disingenuous way to avoid a less desirable cluster. What do these people tell their child about their choice for language immersion?

"Well honey, we really don't give a darn about language immersion, it was just a way to get you out of our lower performing cluster." ???

If I were on the BOE, this issue would not waste one more minute of my time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do any other immersion programs feed all the way through high school?

Yes they do... SSIM can go to Blair, chinese go to Churchill.

Not true. SSIMS immersion kids go to their home high school or whatever magnet admits them. They do NOT go to Blair.

Wrong wrong wrong....

From the choice manual:


Students who reside outside the Downcounty Consortium, but attend a Consortium middle school, may participate in high school Choice, following the same process as students residing in the Consortium. These students also are assured that they may attend a Consortium high school. However, for these students, there is no guarantee of admittance to a specific high school, because they do not reside within a base area of one of the high schools. Student Choice request forms for out-of-Consortium students are processed in the second round of the student assignment process, after students residing in the Consortium have been provided with their high school assignments.

Fine, they are part of the choice program. I forgot to mention that. So their path is:

SSIMS-->home high school OR DCC high school via the choice lottery/request process (DCC includes Blair) OR magnet.

They do NOT have any special admittance to Blair (as Westland Spanish immersion kids do to BCC).

Sigh..... They don't have it because of the DCC... It would be unfair to the others in DCC. However, the REASON they are involved in choice at all is because they are full fledged members of the community. It has nothing to do with Immersion continuation. Their whole schooling has been in the DCC just as those in RCF and Westland are ingrained into the BCC cluster.

Finally to the original point Chinese Immersion can go to Churchill, SSIM can go to choice including CAP. So the Spanish Immersion matriculation to BCC is far from unique!

French Immersion kids participating in the DCC choice program for high school options is NOT the same thing as the entire Spanish Immersion cohort going to BCC. Not comparable, not even close. As a practical matter most of the French Immersion kids either go to a DCC school or a magnet (if they are in the DCC) or to their home school or a magnet (if they are not in the DCC). So the effect is the same as if they were scattered to the winds. There is no concentration of immersion kids at any one school in the DCC.

You are being disingenuous, using this as an argument that the "Spanish Immersion matriculation to BCC is far from unique." It is, in fact, unique.

You avoid mentioning Churchill like the plague, why is that?

Furthermore the whole Spanish cohort doesn't even go on to Westland let alone BCC. Many go to SSIM and again on to DCC.

Lastly, how is it that you know where Immersion students end up in the DCC? The reason the are not together is there is no single path to continue to like in Churchill and BCC. If there were you would see it. But at least students have the option to follow their good friends from K and up if they choose to do so.

I've had three kids go through French Immersion. I can assure you that they scatter to the winds - there is no concentration of them anywhere.

They cannot follow their friends unless the Choice process or the magnet process works out that way.

I don't know anything about Churchill. But I don't see why any immersion students should be entitled to a single high school program, particularly if such a setup is not available for *all* immersion students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a kindergartener in the RCF spanish immersion program. I guess maybe all this is just so far off, but I can't figure out why I should care.

Can someone answer this question for me - is there a spanish immersion program continuation at BCC? If not, I'd personally rather just send my kid to SSIMS and Northwood (our home schools) because Westland and BCC are so far away.

I can see being upset if your kids are already at Westland because of course you'd want them to stay with their class on to BCC - that makes total sense to me. But if your kids are still at RCF, then they can go to SSIMS and still be with their friends for their assigned high school.

Or am I missing something?

What's glaringly missing to me is not everyone lives in the cluster where the immersion is located. If you live in Damascus and have a kid at RCF who wants to continue immersion they can't do that at the local middle school. If they do complete immersion at Westland or SSIMS that's where their "friends" will be. If they go back to Damascus they will A) not know most kids B) not be able to take higher level Spanish which was the point of being in Immersion in the first place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with the RCF spanish immersion program is that it's located in a good school pyramid. Parents who are scrambling to get away from a less desirable school pyramid apply just to be in the BCC. Magnet programs should be used to draw the affluent/middle class families into the poorer communities to attend schools that would otherwise have few/limited students from middle-class families, not draw the affluent/middle class families away from the DCC, which seems to be the trend. It leaves the DCC schools with even fewer middle class families than it would have if everyone just went to their neighborhood school, it overcrowds the BCC (much to the dismay of the folks who pay the big bucks to live in that school assignment), and it makes it that much harder for parents with a genuine desire to expose their kids to a second language to get into the program because they're competing with a whole slew of applicants who just want anything but their home school. I'm sure there's a story behind the location of the program or a rule behind it or something, and maybe of the elementaries in the BCC cluster RCF has a comparatively high FARMS rate which somehow justified placing the program there, but as a policy matter, and looking at the incentive structure the program creates, my instinct is to say MCPS is doing it wrong with this program. The full immersion program should probably be in the downcounty.

Westland immersion parent here. I agree that the best solution is for MCPS to establish an immersion program continuation in high school somewhere. Otherwise the kids have no option for adequate language instruction and all that work and sacrifice is greatly diminished. I for one would send my child to a downcounty high school with an immersion continuation without hesitation -- I think most of the other parents agree.

The problem here is that the BCC cluster reps are acting in bad faith by not involving their immersion family constituents (all of whom pay PTA dues, volunteer, etc.) in the decision and at least informing them. We have had NO communication from them on this point at all. Even the RCF PTA won't speak up for the interests of half of its members. It is appalling.

The second problem is that MCPS, during several meetings with Cluster Superintendent Garran, BoE member Shirley Brandman and others, promised that such a change would be conducted with great transparency and input from immersion parents, with plenty of notice. Instead, this has been done on the sly with absolutely NO input from immersion parents. This is a public school system, not a private school whose tuition is paid through taxes. We should have been involved, informed, and our children's interests also considered.

The result is there are kids who are already well ensconced in middle school at Westland, whose families have made certain decisions about application magnets, etc., who now are going to be scattered across the county for high school. Many of these schools do not have the higher level language classes or the critical mass of high-level speakers to allow kids to maintain and continue to develop their language skills.
Maybe it is time for a change, but that doesn't mean that immersion parents should be dealt with in bad faith or treated like they are carpetbaggers. I can tell you that I did not make the decision for immersion based on BCC -- in fact, my other child is not in immersion and goes to a different high school and is perfectly fine. And the BCC parents are treating immersion parents in such an elitist, "I pay more taxes than you" way that it's really offensive. We applied to a legitimate magnet program and operated under the assumption that the assurances of MCPS leadership would be followed through on.

The reality is that we are talking about a small number of kids -- about 20 - 25 per grade. It's not going to make a dent in BCC's overcrowding but it's really an unfair and deceptive way to deal with these families.

French immersion parent here and I can tell you from experience that your fear is unfounded. SSIMS French immersion kids are scattered everywhere and it works out for them. I have had three kids go through the FI program and am very familiar with how this plays out. They do FINE. There *is* adequate language instruction for them at their home and at other MCPS high schools. It works FINE.

Serious/non-sarcastic question: Why do you think the MCPS Spanish immersion kids are entitled to what none of the other immersion kids have?

There will likely never be an immersion high school for these kids. I think pursuing that amounts to tilting at windmills.

The deception you describe is a whole other story and while I know nothing about it, based on some of my experience with MCPS I believe that what you are saying is true. FWIW.

PP here -- I don't! I think all immersion kids should have an option to continue on in high school with rigorous language instruction, and that we immersion parents should be banding together to ask for this. I don't care where it is, as long as it's a semi-reasonable commute (I wouldn't go all the way to Poolesville or Gaithersburg, for example).

Rather than giving up, you should support us and work for more and better high level language options in high school!

And FWIW, someone did a survey and there are a number of MCPS high schools that don't offer anything above Spanish IV. My child is will be in Spanish IV in 9th grade, and colleges want to see more than one year of a language.

This is a step that would help keep MCPS on the cutting edge -- we should all be fighting for it! Other large districts have innovative high school programs ... why does MCPS push so hard against them?!

1. My question was not about ALL immersion students. It was about Spanish immersion students and BCC in particular.
2. I support what you are saying but in this era of budget cuts and given the bureaucracy that is MCPS, I personally would not put any work into this, even if my kids were younger. My kids are in high school now and so my efforts are directed at getting them through HS and to good colleges.
3. You must be joking about innovative programs. For the love of God, we have language immersion programs (multiple ones); IB programs; CAP; math/science/computer science magnets. I think MCPS does pretty well at innovative and targeted programs, certainly better than many systems.

I think it is irrational and unrealistic for Westland immersion parents to expect the continuation of this single track, which is not available to all immersion kids.