Does it make sense for me to die so my family can live?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Tough love message that I don't have time to tone down: OP, you'll do much more damage to your family by doing what you propose than by sticking around. Of course your children need their mother more than money...what are you thinking? Plus, consider the tragic message you'd be sending to them. Eventually, when they are old enough, they'll think of you as weak and a quitter unwilling to do what it took to provide for her family, rather than the selfless martyr I think you are envisioning. They will have a cross to bear. They'll forever be the kids of that woman who committed suicide...and they won't have a mother to turn to when they are feeling haunted by your death. You talk about your husband remarrying. Are you truly willing to risk him marrying a woman who doesn't care for your children? Frankly, I think what your are contemplating is the height of selfishness, not selflessness. So what you're educated? Getting a fucking waitressing job if you need to. Get two of them. Throwing in the towel should not be an option. Call a suicide hotline now.

Please read this. You are being selfish.

I have two jobs -- my regular job, and another part-time job I do in the evenings after my kid is asleep so we can make ends meet. If you take on something part time you can add the "fat" to your budget you need to pay down your debts.

Throwing in the towel is not an option. Would you want your kids to kill themselves if they were in a similar situation? Or would you want them to rise up and do EVERYTHING they could? I'll bet the latter. That's what they NEED you to do, too. It is not hard to get a part time job -- believe me, I have waitressed, worked at fast food joints, etc. It is not beneath you to be a survivor, even if it's not glamorous.

[Anonymous]

OP: I read none of the responses but want to share a couple of facts about my life.

I was born dirt poor; going to bed hungry poor; living in unsafe places poor.

I was engaged to be married and at 23, widowed at which point I received about 100K in life insurance. I used that to fix my life.

However, the survivor guilt is horrible and now, at 40, I still miss my old mate even though I am very happily married.

God bless you. And I would suggest getting mental health help as well.

[Anonymous]

Your kids would blame themselves for your death, if by suicide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not declare bankruptcy? That's another way to wipe the slate clean.

Also, OP, would you have preferred to grow up without a mom? Can you imagine the pain you would put your kids through? You will get through this -- don't do it to your kids.

Student loan debt isn't dischargeable in bankruptcy. Nor in death, I think.

As long as you don't consolidate the loans with your spouse, they die when you do. They can make a claim against your probate assets, but that is pretty meaningless for married couples as most assets pass between spouses outside of the probate estate. If you put your house and bankey accounts in joint names, then they are usually not subject to the probate court and pass automatically. If you don't want to put accounts in joint names, you can set them up so they are "Payable on Death" to another person. Similary, most 401(k) accounts and insurance policies are paid to a beneficiary, not to the probate estate and can't be touched by claims against the estate.

[Anonymous]

Go talk to a lawyer. You might be able to get a legal separation from your husband and then just let the loans default. It would protect his credit and borrowing ability.

Also sometimes student loans can be discharged in bankruptcy under circumstances similar to yours. Go see a lawyer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not declare bankruptcy? That's another way to wipe the slate clean.

Also, OP, would you have preferred to grow up without a mom? Can you imagine the pain you would put your kids through? You will get through this -- don't do it to your kids.

Student loan debt isn't dischargeable in bankruptcy. Nor in death, I think.

No, they can't be included in a bankruptcy but your family is not responsible for them after you die. Not that it should matter in this case.

Either way OP, no, suicide is not an option and will not help your family. There must be something else you can do to make money. Nothing is ever this bleak or unchangeable. Contact The Women's Center and get a counselor - they work on a sliding scale and may be able to help with your employment situation too.

http://www.thewomenscenter.org/

[Anonymous]

OP mentioned her parents and their retirement fund in a post. To save money by living with family is an option I would explore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a SAHM with over $100k in student loan debt. I "flunked out" of my field, for lack of a better term, and am pretty much unemployable (and even if I was employable, child care and commuting costs would eat any income I made anyway). My DH also has a great deal of student loan debt (more than me) but he is actually using his degree. Our financial situation is getting desperate, i.e. we are facing a choice between forgoing health insurance and defaulting on student loans. (We applied for a high deductible plan but I was turned down by three different companies, and yes, we've tried to work with the loan servicer to keep the payments doable. A deferment/forbearance wouldn't help because we'll be no more able to make the payments a year from now). We have very low housing expenses for our area, no cable, never go out to eat, DH drives an old car, there is no "fat" in our budget. We do have life insurance on both of us for a decent sum. With me out of the picture, he could pay off the house, his student loans, what little other debt we have, and still have money left over to put in a college fund for the kids. Plus, with no rent or student loan payments, he would have plenty of money to hire a nanny before he remarried.

How does it not make sense for me to give my family the gift of financial freedom and relieve them of the burden of my mistakes? (Suicide is not excluded from the life insurance plan). My parents want to help and have even talked about liquidating their retirement savings but I can't let them do that. Only death will wipe the slate clean. It is too late for me but I want my children to have a good life. From a purely financial perspective, wouldn't this be the best gift I could give them?

P.S. If your response is "you should never have had kids", save it. Things were not always this bad for us and my kids are the only redeeming thing I've ever done in my life.

Hi, OP. I'm so sorry you're experiencing such huge financial pressure. I echo what everyone else has said about suicide (or any death) of a parent being INCREDIBLY detrimental to children. I know a couple people whose parents have committed suicide, and it REALLY messed them up. You're only in your 30s... there is all kinds of time for things to turn around!

A couple of thoughts:
-Don't worry about college expenses for your kids right now. That's putting the cart before the horse. LOTS of kids don't have their college educations funded by their parents. Your kids could a) get scholarships, b) go to state schools, and c) get loans. They will be fine. Really.
-Can you look into options for doing ANY kind of work, even part time? What about a restaurant or retail? Are there any times that someone else can watch the kids, like on the weekend (husband) or while they're at school?
-Can your husband look for a better paying job?
-Can your husband look into a second job?
-Can you move to a less expensive home?
-Can you move to a less expensive part of the country?
-Can you rent out a room in your home?
-Can you live with family for a while until you feel more comfortable financially?
-What are your biggest expenses? Look at ways to adjust those.
-Is there anything you can sell on craigslist or ebay? Old clothes? Old furniture? Old electronics?

This is just a fraction of the questions you should be asking before if you should not be around anymore. There are other ways out of this situation! Do you talk with your husband about the options? You should not be bearing this burden alone. It's not your personal student loan debt that is making it hard for you guys, it is your combined situation which involves your husband.

Also, please please go talk to a counselor, social worker, therapist, pastor, rabbi, friend... someone. It sounds like you're feeling both overwhelmed and stuck, and people who know more about your situation can help you think of more ways than we can to get you out of it. Good luck to you!

[Anonymous]

My husband died three years ago of cancer. His $1M life insurance policy paid off all of our debt, including mortgage, and will cover my children's college costs. The remainder was invested and has grown well, giving me financial freedom.

I would give it all back, plus every penny I will ever earn in the future, if I could get my husband to return. There is NO amount of money, no amount of financial peace of mind, that can compensate for the loss of a parent and partner. Your husband and children will carry that loss for the rest of their lives. Don't even consider doing it to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My husband died three years ago of cancer. His $1M life insurance policy paid off all of our debt, including mortgage, and will cover my children's college costs. The remainder was invested and has grown well, giving me financial freedom.

I would give it all back, plus every penny I will ever earn in the future, if I could get my husband to return. There is NO amount of money, no amount of financial peace of mind, that can compensate for the loss of a parent and partner. Your husband and children will carry that loss for the rest of their lives. Don't even consider doing it to them.

Just wanted to say I'm sorry for your loss pp.

[Anonymous]

OMG, OP, you need to get help asap, you need to call suicide hotline or try to get some free counselling. Financial hardship should not be the end of the world for people with healthy mental state, you obviously are clinically depressed and need to get help. Read other people's responses on concrete steps you can take to help your financial situation and start working on it. Only if you are deeply depressed, you find yourself unable to move a finger and feeling so hopeless, that is why you need to get help first asap. Once you understand that this is your mental state talking, not your desperate situation, start taking action and you will feel better. Just think about the burden you will be putting on your family, esp. your kids with your death, are you crazy? You think you want to relieve your family from a burden? You will be putting a very heavy weight on their shoulders they have to carry for the rest of their lives. My heart goes out to you, i've been depressed before and was in dire financial situation and bad circumstances in my young years, I feel for you. Please get help, things will get better, hang in there!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband died three years ago of cancer. His $1M life insurance policy paid off all of our debt, including mortgage, and will cover my children's college costs. The remainder was invested and has grown well, giving me financial freedom.

I would give it all back, plus every penny I will ever earn in the future, if I could get my husband to return. There is NO amount of money, no amount of financial peace of mind, that can compensate for the loss of a parent and partner. Your husband and children will carry that loss for the rest of their lives. Don't even consider doing it to them.

Just wanted to say I'm sorry for your loss pp.

+1

[Anonymous]

Call 1-800-273-8255

[Anonymous]

My dad died when I was 6 - it has been the most difficult thing to deal with and I am now almost 40. Get help right now. Let your parents help you. It is okay. They want to help you and your family.

[Anonymous]

I understand your line of thinking. You feel overwhelmed with debt, don't see how to pay it off, feel useless and want the best for your family. And rationally, maybe it seems like an option.

But keep in mind that insurance companies are tricky beasts, and if they can find a reason not to pay out, they'll jump on it. So even if you think it would all work out, it's definitely possible that you could go through with it and the insurance not pay out. Then your husband would be left with his own debt *plus* having to pay expensive daycare costs for the kids.

And that's in addition to the emotional toll it would take on him and the kids.

So don't do it. It's sometimes easy to rationalize drastic measures, but in reality, things never turn out as planned. And lots could backfire in your plan, possibly leaving your family in worse shape.

Also, don't let this forum fool you -- I think that most people are in your boat (have kids, debt, feel overwhelmed). This site makes it seem like everyone has a million stashed a way for retirement and a million in a college fund. But all articles I've read quote statistics that paint a far different picture. So I go with the facts (as opposed to an anonymous forum in an unusually affluent area -- it's easy for people to exaggerate). The facts are that most Americans are in debt and don't have lots saved.

So you are not alone.

Honestly, I think they might end up changing bankruptcy laws to include student debt. Hang in there. There's been a lot more attention recently to issues with student loans.

Meanwhile, once your kids are in school, you can look for work. Maybe it won't be in your career of choice and maybe it won't be the highest paying, but I'm sure you can find some administrative work, especially if you have a solid education background. Once your kids are in school, you won't have to pay for full time daycare.

Things will get better. I had a friend who used to contemplate suicide, and I told her that the thing about suicide is you can always put it off. She said that it helped to think of it that way; if it's an option today, than it's an option any time. So why not just hang in there a little while longer and see if things get better? Save that as the nuclear option. I think you'll find, as she did, that things do get better and you'll be glad you didn't put the nuclear option into play.