Do Daycare ratios apply to pre-school? If yes, how does Franklin Montessori have such large classes?

[Anonymous]

I tend to enjoy some of the dry humor on this thread, but I am afraid that some mistaken information by some previous commenters and an incredulous response might overshadow the real issue. The message that should not be buried here is that Franklin is a marvelous school. Franklin is a first class program that provides a safe, enriching environment. I agree that there are other programs and approaches to early childhood education that have the same high standards and that not all programs are right for all families. However, as a parent of a recent Franklin student, I want to make it clear that we are talking about an outstandingly well run school.

[Anonymous]

I am a current Franklin parent and I certainly don't dispute anything that the PPs have said about the school. The staff seems wonderful, facilities are outstanding. However, there's nothing wrong with raising a question about ratios, which anyone who is familiar with child care settings would have a question about. Given the reaction from the board, one can only imagine the reaction one would get if this question was posed to the school.

There is another thread on a downtown preschool whose teachers asked parents to request that the director hire a third teacher. Two year olds (still in diapers) have many needs and it's reasonable to ask whether 2 teachers is sufficient.

The information shared about the waiver for Montessori schools was very informative. Although the regulation is only a proposed one, and it's not clear that it was adopted.

[Anonymous]

Don't live in DC and have heard wonderful things about Franklin, but there should be no requirement that allows Montessori schools to have a different ratio than other schools. There is more to it than the teaching philosophy (which many schools also use in part). There are safety reasons as well. This is a legitimate concern and one that the state or district should have strict guidelines on.

[Anonymous]

Current Franklin parent. I like the school a lot and so does my child...except that I do think the class size is too big. Instead of about 30 kids for three teachers, I (and likely my child) would prefer a smaller class of around 24. But we like the Montessori approach, the teachers, and the Franklin community.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Current Franklin parent. I like the school a lot and so does my child...except that I do think the class size is too big. Instead of about 30 kids for three teachers, I (and likely my child) would prefer a smaller class of around 24. But we like the Montessori approach, the teachers, and the Franklin community.

Interesting feedback, PP. With 30 kids, I might as well send my kid to free DCPS pre-K at Janney. At some point you have to ask if it's really worth it (as Franklin is pretty expensive, even as preschools go).

[Anonymous]

30 kids and 3 teacher is still a 1:10 ratio and I'm assuming this is primary 3-6 years. I'm not really following where this preschool is different in terms of student/staff ratios from other daycares.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:30 kids and 3 teacher is still a 1:10 ratio and I'm assuming this is primary 3-6 years. I'm not really following where this preschool is different in terms of student/staff ratios from other daycares.

DC preschools and daycares have a maximum class size. Up to age 3, for example, the maximum class size is 16 kids, no matter how many teachers you have. So having 30 kids in one class would be out of ratio. It goes up a little for 4 and 5 year olds, but I don't remember without consulting my regs. I think it's up to 20 for 5 year olds. Therefore, Montesorris must have a waiver or they would be out of compliance with 30 kids in one class of any age.

[Anonymous]

Also, with 2 year olds (under 2.5) the ratio is 1:4, so if there are more than 8 2 year olds, there should be 3 teachers but there are only 2.

[Anonymous]

Current Franklin parent who is very happy with the primary program. I do think it is interesting that the ratios are actually higher in the 2s classrooms than in the primary classrooms. I wonder why/how this works as the older kids are more independent (and potty trained).

[Anonymous]

Montessori method specifically relies on larger class sizes, which is why they have a waiver. Typical classes per the method are 25-35 students with either two or three teachers. Obviously this is adapted to meet specific contexts/regulations, but sounds like in DC, the schools successfully argued their case and were granted a waiver. The idea is that learning is peer-to-peer and only facilitated by the teacher; there's not a lot of straight instruction. Maria Montessori felt 40 or more students worked best with one teacher and one aide; today, I think AMI advocates 30+ with two teachers.

Obviously not everyone agrees with that philosophy, but if you don't, Montessori is not where you want to be!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Current Franklin parent who is very happy with the primary program. I do think it is interesting that the ratios are actually higher in the 2s classrooms than in the primary classrooms. I wonder why/how this works as the older kids are more independent (and potty trained).

How do you figure? I counted 30 cubbies in a primary classroom with 3 teachers (that's 1:10). Meanwhile, in the 2s it's 2 teachers for 10-14 kids, so at the most it's 1:7.

As others have said, it's not an issue of educational philosophy but at the end of the day they are still providing child care. So what happens if there's an emergency?

[Anonymous]

Those are actually small ratios for Montessori. Out in Fairfax I see 1:13 for age 3 and up and 1:8 for the 2's. Unfortunately the state sets these ridiculously high min. ratios. As far as I know they don't have waivers for Montessori verses other schools here. I guess they don't have to with such high ratios to begin with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Current Franklin parent who is very happy with the primary program. I do think it is interesting that the ratios are actually higher in the 2s classrooms than in the primary classrooms. I wonder why/how this works as the older kids are more independent (and potty trained).

How do you figure? I counted 30 cubbies in a primary classroom with 3 teachers (that's 1:10). Meanwhile, in the 2s it's 2 teachers for 10-14 kids, so at the most it's 1:7.

As others have said, it's not an issue of educational philosophy but at the end of the day they are still providing child care. So what happens if there's an emergency?

Sorry, I was trying to multitask! I meant that the 2s ratios are higher than the law requires for daycares/preschools and the primary ratios are lower than required for the older kids. Or maybe I am just scarred by a previous preschool experience that had lower ratios and a lot more uncontrolled chaos.