NAACP, Local Advocates File Discrimination Complaint Against FCPS

[Anonymous]

There should be a method to attract black students. We all know that TJ is part of the institutionally racist culture of the uS that excludes African Americans. Promote your model minorities of Indians and Asians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But we aren't talking about normal kids - the school only grabs the truly truly gifted. And that the demographics seems to favor Asians heavily. Perhaps they are gifted and their families work very hard to have them achieve. I know many asian families that pay for tutors and send their children to special schools on Saturdays to get them ahead.

If the other groups (white, hispanic, black, etc) can't compete they will be and should be left behind. Don't dumb the school down for quotas. That is why the U.S. is starting to fail.

I agree with you, but the fact is that there has been a steady deterioration in the math level of the students who are admitted, precipitating a crisis this year since almost 30% of the frosh class is considered inadequately prepared for the rigors of the program and has been placed in remedial math instruction. Before you jump to conclusions and conclude that it's the blacks and latino kids who aren't doing well, it's mathematically impossible for that to be the case--blacks and latinos make up less than 5% of the class. Furthermore, as the letter points out, most of those kids come from private schools, so they're in all likelihood not disadvantaged.
The fact is that the increasingly subjective application process has let in a lot of underqualified white and asian kids whose families have figured out how to game the system by writing the "perfect essay", saying the right things on the student information sheet, securing excellent recommendations, and packing their kids' after-school hours with science-related stuff, whether the kid is good at it or not and likes it or not.
In addition, several high-performing latino kids with excellent test scores were rejected at the expense of kids with lower scores. So, in some ways, the letter is right--there may be a disparate impact on URM because a highly subjective admissions process that was designed to get more of them in is actually letting in more lower-performing whites and asians.
What a mess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There should be a method to attract black students. We all know that TJ is part of the institutionally racist culture of the uS that excludes African Americans. Promote your model minorities of Indians and Asians.

Well first the would actually have to attract black parents to live in Fairfax county.

The argument about the under representation at TJ has been around since the school's inception but everyone seems to ignore the fact that the population of minority students they are looking to attract is just really small to begin with. Then factoring in that not every child is going to be brilliant in Math and Science, you know whittle down the number of students who might be possible attendees. After that, factor in the students desire and the parents desire for their child to attend the school and you whittle down a little more. And you are now likely at the number of students who are actually admitted and attending.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

to be fair, a complaint is the first document filed by a plaintiff in a lawsuit. they will sue, no doubt.

They won't sue if the Education Department takes this up or they don't have the funds to litigate. Filing a complaint is cheap.

[Anonymous]

Don't people ever get tired of this topic?

I'm Asian-American and always get insulted whenever this topic comes up. My parents were immigrants. English was my second language. I was never put in ESL classes because I always tested well. I never had tutors. I never went to afternoon or Saturday school. I don't think my parents ever helped me with my homework. I studied hard because I did not want to be poor like my parents. My parents always told me that Asians had to score much higher on tests if we wanted a fighting chance to succeed. I had plenty of black and Hispanic friends at Harvard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But we aren't talking about normal kids - the school only grabs the truly truly gifted. And that the demographics seems to favor Asians heavily. Perhaps they are gifted and their families work very hard to have them achieve. I know many asian families that pay for tutors and send their children to special schools on Saturdays to get them ahead.

If the other groups (white, hispanic, black, etc) can't compete they will be and should be left behind. Don't dumb the school down for quotas. That is why the U.S. is starting to fail.

I agree with you, but the fact is that there has been a steady deterioration in the math level of the students who are admitted, precipitating a crisis this year since almost 30% of the frosh class is considered inadequately prepared for the rigors of the program and has been placed in remedial math instruction. Before you jump to conclusions and conclude that it's the blacks and latino kids who aren't doing well, it's mathematically impossible for that to be the case--blacks and latinos make up less than 5% of the class. Furthermore, as the letter points out, most of those kids come from private schools, so they're in all likelihood not disadvantaged.
The fact is that the increasingly subjective application process has let in a lot of underqualified white and asian kids whose families have figured out how to game the system by writing the "perfect essay", saying the right things on the student information sheet, securing excellent recommendations, and packing their kids' after-school hours with science-related stuff, whether the kid is good at it or not and likes it or not.
In addition, several high-performing latino kids with excellent test scores were rejected at the expense of kids with lower scores. So, in some ways, the letter is right--there may be a disparate impact on URM because a highly subjective admissions process that was designed to get more of them in is actually letting in more lower-performing whites and asians.
What a mess.

I'm sure there were plenty of white and Asian kids with excellent test scores who were also rejected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I agree with you, but the fact is that there has been a steady deterioration in the math level of the students who are admitted, precipitating a crisis this year since almost 30% of the frosh class is considered inadequately prepared for the rigors of the program and has been placed in remedial math instruction. Before you jump to conclusions and conclude that it's the blacks and latino kids who aren't doing well, it's mathematically impossible for that to be the case--blacks and latinos make up less than 5% of the class. Furthermore, as the letter points out, most of those kids come from private schools, so they're in all likelihood not disadvantaged.
The fact is that the increasingly subjective application process has let in a lot of underqualified white and asian kids whose families have figured out how to game the system by writing the "perfect essay", saying the right things on the student information sheet, securing excellent recommendations, and packing their kids' after-school hours with science-related stuff, whether the kid is good at it or not and likes it or not.
.

This is a problem. Many people have enrolled their kids in TJ prep classes for a year or more before they take the test. Last year kids who needed help in Algebra II were identified less than a month into the school year, so the math issues existed before entry into the TJ program.

[Anonymous]

The source of the math issues is that parents are rushing kids through Algebra and Geometry in order to try and gain an edge in TJ admissions. Statistics show that TJ is significantly more likely to accept a child who has completed geometry or higher in 8th grade. Very, very few kids are truly ready for Geometry or Algebra II in 8th grade. Sure they can do well in the class, but they can't truly grasp the concepts like they could if they were a couple years older.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I agree with you, but the fact is that there has been a steady deterioration in the math level of the students who are admitted, precipitating a crisis this year since almost 30% of the frosh class is considered inadequately prepared for the rigors of the program and has been placed in remedial math instruction. Before you jump to conclusions and conclude that it's the blacks and latino kids who aren't doing well, it's mathematically impossible for that to be the case--blacks and latinos make up less than 5% of the class. Furthermore, as the letter points out, most of those kids come from private schools, so they're in all likelihood not disadvantaged.
The fact is that the increasingly subjective application process has let in a lot of underqualified white and asian kids whose families have figured out how to game the system by writing the "perfect essay", saying the right things on the student information sheet, securing excellent recommendations, and packing their kids' after-school hours with science-related stuff, whether the kid is good at it or not and likes it or not.
.

This is a problem. Many people have enrolled their kids in TJ prep classes for a year or more before they take the test. Last year kids who needed help in Algebra II were identified less than a month into the school year, so the math issues existed before entry into the TJ program.

I went to a magnet high school in another state. There were valedictorians from junior high schools who cried because they could not follow along. Some kids from private school returned back to private school because their parents did not think their kids could compete and their chances of getting into Princeton were low. Most of the kids who could not keep up were white. This was back in the 90's though. The demographics of my old high school probably changed much since I attended.

Indian kids kicked major ass in mathematics at that school. There were always a few Indian kids who went to MIT. More black kids got into Harvard, Yale, etc. The white and Asian kids used to vent that it was unfair that the black kids got into the better colleges with lower test scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don't people ever get tired of this topic?

I'm Asian-American and always get insulted whenever this topic comes up. My parents were immigrants. English was my second language. I was never put in ESL classes because I always tested well. I never had tutors. I never went to afternoon or Saturday school. I don't think my parents ever helped me with my homework. I studied hard because I did not want to be poor like my parents. My parents always told me that Asians had to score much higher on tests if we wanted a fighting chance to succeed. I had plenty of black and Hispanic friends at Harvard.

The complaint wasn't filed against Harvard.

[Anonymous]

Its cultural, asians and to a lesser extent caucasian value education and studying over sports , rap music bling bling etc...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
http://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:42:1757190621013254::NO:42_SCHOOL_YEAR,P42_CLUSTER_ID,P42_DIVISION_ID,P42_SCHOOL_ID:201112,1,DIVISION,


total 7,8 plus aap[removed sped]=23,440
aap=3535 [assume 50% in each grade so 1767 in grade 8 ranging from 61 at Glascow to 259 at Carson]

Now do you all see why there are variations in the numbers for TJ from centers?

Great link to nowhere!

I posted this and just clicked on the link and it works. This is the information for the statistical report that has to be filed monthly to the state by each school division. Real stuff not subjective. What do you mean link to nowhere?? This chart explains why some middle schools feed more students numerically.

I personally know of Latino students rejected in the TJ admission process who are now majoring in engineering. No student who needs remediation in math should be at that school. Too many students have significant test prep and afterschooling for their entire academic careers ...the subjective elements like essays and activities skew the process.

FCPS and the school board should analyze which students are having difficulty in math-which middle schools and elementary schools. If these students are predominantly coming from the same cluster then it's a preparation NOT admission testing problem. Instruction and breadth of content varies between schools in FCPS far more than it should since it is one school division.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The source of the math issues is that parents are rushing kids through Algebra and Geometry in order to try and gain an edge in TJ admissions. Statistics show that TJ is significantly more likely to accept a child who has completed geometry or higher in 8th grade. Very, very few kids are truly ready for Geometry or Algebra II in 8th grade. Sure they can do well in the class, but they can't truly grasp the concepts like they could if they were a couple years older.

Yes they can grasp the concepts. If they are ready then exactly what do you expect them to do in school if they can't progress in math? No math?

[Anonymous]

If a child needs ANY remediation in math - then they don't belong at TJ. THAT's IT. There are plenty of excellent students to choose from.... the process obviously is not picking the excellent MATH and SCIENCE students.

[Anonymous]

I guess, but why does race now become an issue? Shouldn't they just figure out where the problems are with admission and fix it? Then admission would change relative to new criteria, not race. Honestly I never understood the aura of TJ. Is it just a status symbol for them or do people honestly think their local FCPS public high school with ridiculous numbers of AP classes offered these days isn't enough to then go on to a STEM career?