St. Columba's overly political sermons...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The debate about the separation of church and state is indeed a public policy debate. No one is asserting that there is a constitutional right to not have to hear political discourse in church; rather the issue is that at my church, St. Columba's, political issue are overly intrusive to the point where a greater spiritual message is obscured. The pastors really do not seem to know or care about their audience at all.

I am indeed relieved to see the Bishop-elect Budde has a husband and 2 children. Maybe she can guide the church back to issues that really matter to Washington families. http://search.edow.org/article.php?id=114 After all it is the families that fill the pews and make the donations and offerings that allow the church to continue. Not the occasional appearance of a wealthy gay couple that considers themselves Episcopal. If there are gay families at St. Columba's I honestly do not see them, ever.

You don't get it. Spiritual growth and political discourse are not mutually exclusive. Understanding how Christian teachings apply to the pressing issues of our time IS religious education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, I believe denying one group of people the rights freely given to another (ie gay marriage) IS a spiritual issue. Equality - in spirit, in law, in practice - is EXACTLY what the church should espouse, loudly and firmly. How, OP, do you think you can talk about love without addressing the obvious lack of in the wider American society?

OP here: Do you attend St. Columba's? I'm asking because the issue for me isn't whether these issues should never be discussed in any Church, but rather should they be discussed in MY church, St. Columba's where the parish is 99% straight families with small children. It is not the overriding issue of the parish--but it is the feverish obsession of the priests, all right. If you go to a church that is predominantly gay, well fine, then you may not mind having these issues dominate. But I'm just sick of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thank God St. C isn't afraid to tackle important issues of our time. These issues are political, yes, but they are also profound MORAL problems that the church ought to tackle and take a stance on. If you don't think that Jesus was concerned with inequality, which is what the tax code and gay right are fundamentally about, then you know a different Jesus than me. If all you want is liturgy without sermon, then leave. IMO, liberal churches should be as vocal about these issues as conservative ones.

Do you attend St. C's? I am curious to know what other parishioners think, really. Lay people not priests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, I believe denying one group of people the rights freely given to another (ie gay marriage) IS a spiritual issue. Equality - in spirit, in law, in practice - is EXACTLY what the church should espouse, loudly and firmly. How, OP, do you think you can talk about love without addressing the obvious lack of in the wider American society?

OP here: Do you attend St. Columba's? I'm asking because the issue for me isn't whether these issues should never be discussed in any Church, but rather should they be discussed in MY church, St. Columba's where the parish is 99% straight families with small children. It is not the overriding issue of the parish--but it is the feverish obsession of the priests, all right. If you go to a church that is predominantly gay, well fine, then you may not mind having these issues dominate. But I'm just sick of it.

So if it doesn't affect you directly, it shouldn't be discussed? Or do you think that gay marriage just not an appropriate topic for young children?

[Anonymous]

NP here. Are young children listening to the sermon? At my Episcopal church nearby, all the kids go to a different area of the church for a kid-centric mini-service and return to the main church at communion.

[Anonymous]

It would be turn-off to me. I'm ok with general support for the poor and charitable endeavors, but when it gets overtly political on topics where both sides have a compelling moral argument, then I think it inappropriate. I personally do not support gay marriage and think there are probably 10,000 other more worthwhile causes that are more appropriate - hunger, job training, homelessness, immigration reform, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sound like most people responding are sunday christians

Sounds like you're an a$$hole who hasn't read the thread.

Sounds like you are a fake sunday christian . Some of us actually believe and practice put beliefs not just pretend.

Does it make you feel good to use your so-called Christianity to set yourself apart and above other people? You're the judge of everyone Christian, huh? Love it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP here. Are young children listening to the sermon? At my Episcopal church nearby, all the kids go to a different area of the church for a kid-centric mini-service and return to the main church at communion.

My kids are older 9+ and they are not excused from being forced to listen to preaching about the beauty of gay marriage at St. C's. I don't expect to be preached to only about issues that pertain to me--I don't think the majority of St. C's parish is wrestling with the issue of gay rights and marriage. There are literally hundreds more pressing issues that could be addressed--yet every single week it it: "My partner an I were thinking about this or that *insert political issue*" My eyes glaze over and my body just goes rigid and I am saying "la-la-la-la-la-la in my head until the priest stops talking. And then I am just pissed off for the rest of the morning because I feel manipulated. I want to meditate about the higher meaning of Christ through a analysis of the scripture as it applies to ordinary family life. It is not a church of gay activists. We are meek, liberal homeowner in Chevy Chase and AU Park. We totally accept gay people in our families and in the workplace. Talk about parenting kids 0-18 and dealing with elderly parents and confronting mortality. That's what the parishioners are really struggling with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It would be turn-off to me. I'm ok with general support for the poor and charitable endeavors, but when it gets overtly political on topics where both sides have a compelling moral argument, then I think it inappropriate. I personally do not support gay marriage and think there are probably 10,000 other more worthwhile causes that are more appropriate - hunger, job training, homelessness, immigration reform, etc.

Life isn't sugar coated happy fun times there are real issues that need to be addressed or else the anything goes "CO-EXIST" BS people would be everyone's religon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP here. Are young children listening to the sermon? At my Episcopal church nearby, all the kids go to a different area of the church for a kid-centric mini-service and return to the main church at communion.

My kids are older 9+ and they are not excused from being forced to listen to preaching about the beauty of gay marriage at St. C's. I don't expect to be preached to only about issues that pertain to me--I don't think the majority of St. C's parish is wrestling with the issue of gay rights and marriage. There are literally hundreds more pressing issues that could be addressed--yet every single week it it: "My partner an I were thinking about this or that *insert political issue*" My eyes glaze over and my body just goes rigid and I am saying "la-la-la-la-la-la in my head until the priest stops talking. And then I am just pissed off for the rest of the morning because I feel manipulated. I want to meditate about the higher meaning of Christ through a analysis of the scripture as it applies to ordinary family life. It is not a church of gay activists. We are meek, liberal homeowner in Chevy Chase and AU Park. We totally accept gay people in our families and in the workplace. Talk about parenting kids 0-18 and dealing with elderly parents and confronting mortality. That's what the parishioners are really struggling with.

you should really be Catholic. Same exact mass, less BS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP here. Are young children listening to the sermon? At my Episcopal church nearby, all the kids go to a different area of the church for a kid-centric mini-service and return to the main church at communion.

My kids are older 9+ and they are not excused from being forced to listen to preaching about the beauty of gay marriage at St. C's. I don't expect to be preached to only about issues that pertain to me--I don't think the majority of St. C's parish is wrestling with the issue of gay rights and marriage. There are literally hundreds more pressing issues that could be addressed--yet every single week it it: "My partner an I were thinking about this or that *insert political issue*" My eyes glaze over and my body just goes rigid and I am saying "la-la-la-la-la-la in my head until the priest stops talking. And then I am just pissed off for the rest of the morning because I feel manipulated. I want to meditate about the higher meaning of Christ through a analysis of the scripture as it applies to ordinary family life. It is not a church of gay activists. We are meek, liberal homeowner in Chevy Chase and AU Park. We totally accept gay people in our families and in the workplace. Talk about parenting kids 0-18 and dealing with elderly parents and confronting mortality. That's what the parishioners are really struggling with.

You can accept gay people but it doesn't mean you have to believe them to be ok in your moral values. Where will your kids learn about gays? In college?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sound like most people responding are sunday christians

Sounds like you're an a$$hole who hasn't read the thread.

Sounds like you are a fake sunday christian . Some of us actually believe and practice put beliefs not just pretend.

Does it make you feel good to use your so-called Christianity to set yourself apart and above other people? You're the judge of everyone Christian, huh? Love it!

I am not the judge, God is. Maybe I will follow only the parts that are easy or suite my lifestyle is that ok? Can I only follow 1/2 the laws in the tax code? Can I only break 1/2 the driving laws?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, I believe denying one group of people the rights freely given to another (ie gay marriage) IS a spiritual issue. Equality - in spirit, in law, in practice - is EXACTLY what the church should espouse, loudly and firmly. How, OP, do you think you can talk about love without addressing the obvious lack of in the wider American society?

OP here: Do you attend St. Columba's? I'm asking because the issue for me isn't whether these issues should never be discussed in any Church, but rather should they be discussed in MY church, St. Columba's where the parish is 99% straight families with small children. It is not the overriding issue of the parish--but it is the feverish obsession of the priests, all right. If you go to a church that is predominantly gay, well fine, then you may not mind having these issues dominate. But I'm just sick of it.

Then find a new church.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Equality - in spirit, in law, in practice - is EXACTLY what the church should espouse, loudly and firmly.

Actually, the church should espouse the teachings in the Bible, not your ideas on social justice.

Amen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Equality - in spirit, in law, in practice - is EXACTLY what the church should espouse, loudly and firmly.

Actually, the church should espouse the teachings in the Bible, not your ideas on social justice.

Amen.

Which ones? Leviticus? Sorry, I can't keep up with that. Paul's teachings in Corinthians that women should be silent? Sorry, I can't keep up with that either. Give me 1 John 4:7 or Mark 12:28 anyday. If you really think Jesus came here to tell you who to persecute or how to keep all your money, I think you just might have it wrong.