Wisconsin avenue Giant development shut down again

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You can't have the old DC. Time marches on... as it always has.

Actually, you can have it. It's called Cleveland Park, along both the Conn. and Wisc. Ave corridors. Also Chevy Chase DC along Conn. Ave. above Military.

I'm on a local historical board and have access to some pretty deep photo archives. The areas I list above haven't changed, at ALL, since the 1930s. Well, with the exception of a few tall apartment bldgs. like McLean gardens tower. But that's it.

EXACTLY!! and this is why Cleveland Park has empty storefronts and high turnover. and big parking lots sitting on the surface of CT Ave. the business district there is a crying shame. it could be so much more robust. we actually moved out of our cleveland park apartment because it was such a snoozefest. what a waste of a metro stop!!

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
No. I want a suburban existance and I want it IN DC. I'm not going to move and guess what, I paid $200,000 for a house here in Cleveland Park that is now worth $3MM so I'm going to put my foot down and oppose this. IF this comes through our property values will fall, there will be more young people around which means more minorities and more crime. We have more power than the people who live in McLean Gardens.

Signed,

Cleveland Park Native

Wow, it's not just your house that is stuck in the 1940s, is it? I think I just lost sympathy with the preservationists.

It was a JOKE. I was being satirical and playing on the fears of the people who live in CP.

Jokes are prohibited before 11 am. I haven't completely woken up until then.

Oops. Bad posting.

Plus most of the people in CP that don't want this development don't know how to use the internet. That being said I DO live in Cleveland Park and was talking with an older neighbor when the new Safeway opened and he said " I don't want to have to go through all that hassle just to buy some meat". While they may live in DC they love their "village in the city" and can't seem to realize that that mostly won't change. The people in Cleveland Park remind me of the people from the M Night Shyamalan movie "The Village" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Village_(2004_film)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

No. I want a suburban existance and I want it IN DC. I'm not going to move and guess what, I paid $200,000 for a house here in Cleveland Park that is now worth $3MM so I'm going to put my foot down and oppose this. IF this comes through our property values will fall, there will be more young people around which means more minorities and more crime. We have more power than the people who live in McLean Gardens.

Signed,

Cleveland Park Native

You really had me going until the minorities comment. Now I recognize that this was tongue-in-cheek.

Right?

Seriously, right?

I'm with you, but I don't think it was tongue-in-cheek. Here is hoping. Maybe if I read further, she/he will clear this up.

[Anonymous]

If it is in fact true that financing for this project is being held because of the NIMBY appeal, then it is a crying shame for the majority of residents (I believe it was close to 95% on a listserv poll) who favor and encourage this grocery store and new residents.

I understand that many of the people who are responsible for this 10+ year debacle are not even residents of the neighborhood or city any longer.

[Anonymous]

I know that PP was joking about the long-time residents with SFHs vs. 27 year olds who just got their first job post-grad, moved into a rental studio apartment, and wish they had "amenities" so their block isn't a "snoozefest."

But there's some truth to the tongue-in-cheek part about who has the power. ANd it's patently false that this group "doesn't know how to use the internet." Unless you're imagining that some of the biggest names in the legal world don't use computers, which would be stupid if you think about it.

Weirdly, as a long-time resident who is neither 27 nor 88 y.o., I kind of identified with that joke post. You know what? It's actually OK if not all historic parts of a city look exactly like Manufactured McTowns. So that they're not ... what was it? a "snoozefest" for temporary residents who are going to move on within 3 years regardless of the commerce available downstairs in their rental.

[Anonymous]

Surely people on thiis board are smart enough not to put much stock in unscientific "polls" on list servs or other places. Poll questions can be written to elicit any kind of response. ("Do you favor xyz development or do you want a decrepit grocery store foreover" versus "Do you favor xyz development, with no changes or mitigation measures, or should the project be modified to comply with existing zoning requirements and to reduce the additional 4,000 vehicles on neighborhood streets?"). Also, list servs have members from a wide geographical area and what folks think often depends on where they sit. This is the "YIYBY" phenomen ("Yes, in your back yard.") In other words, whether I would support a new freeway that extends I-270 through Chevy Chase to downtown DC might depend on how convenient it would be for me versus how close it might come to where I live.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know that PP was joking about the long-time residents with SFHs vs. 27 year olds who just got their first job post-grad, moved into a rental studio apartment, and wish they had "amenities" so their block isn't a "snoozefest."

But there's some truth to the tongue-in-cheek part about who has the power. ANd it's patently false that this group "doesn't know how to use the internet." Unless you're imagining that some of the biggest names in the legal world don't use computers, which would be stupid if you think about it.

Weirdly, as a long-time resident who is neither 27 nor 88 y.o., I kind of identified with that joke post. You know what? It's actually OK if not all historic parts of a city look exactly like Manufactured McTowns. So that they're not ... what was it? a "snoozefest" for temporary residents who are going to move on within 3 years regardless of the commerce available downstairs in their rental.

i'm not 27. i am an adult with a doctorate, a husband, a job, and two children. and yes, i moved out of cleveland park because it was boring and didn't have enough diversity of services, among other things it was lacking that make it not terribly attractive to people who are not filthy rich and driving everywhere in a luxury car to and from a SFH.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know that PP was joking about the long-time residents with SFHs vs. 27 year olds who just got their first job post-grad, moved into a rental studio apartment, and wish they had "amenities" so their block isn't a "snoozefest."

But there's some truth to the tongue-in-cheek part about who has the power. ANd it's patently false that this group "doesn't know how to use the internet." Unless you're imagining that some of the biggest names in the legal world don't use computers, which would be stupid if you think about it.

Weirdly, as a long-time resident who is neither 27 nor 88 y.o., I kind of identified with that joke post. You know what? It's actually OK if not all historic parts of a city look exactly like Manufactured McTowns. So that they're not ... what was it? a "snoozefest" for temporary residents who are going to move on within 3 years regardless of the commerce available downstairs in their rental.

i'm not 27. i am an adult with a doctorate, a husband, a job, and two children. and yes, i moved out of cleveland park because it was boring and didn't have enough diversity of services, among other things it was lacking that make it not terribly attractive to people who are not filthy rich and driving everywhere in a luxury car to and from a SFH.[/quote]

And therein lies the point. Consciously or not the activist who want to keep their prefect little slice of paradise in the city the way it is don't want this to change. In a way who can blame them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Chevy Chase Safeway is a nice, "neigborhoody" grocery store. So is the one in the Palisades. They have a good selection and are easy to use. I don't like the 60,000+ square feet, pseudo-WalMart superstores that Giant (and Safeway to a lesser extent) are building. They're overwhelming and lack the local feel. I know they have a larger selection, but I don't need a choice of 165 different kinds and sizes of potato chips!

Easy to use? The produce at the CC Safeway is abysmal and the lines are always 5 people deep. I would give my right arm for a Wegmans or Harris Teeter that has nice, non-union workers and are truly "easy" to shop at.

[Anonymous]

"Most of the people in CP that don't want this development don't know how to use the internet."

I live in Cleveland Park. I even know how to use the Internet. I have kids who walk to school, parks, shops and other places. Most of my neighbors have school age kids, too, but we also value the fact that our neighborhood has a diversity of ages and new and long-time residents. Like our neighborhs, we support thoughtful growth but want a safe environment for our kids to walk -- like other communities we already have problems with a lot of through traffic on narrow side streets and a shortage of street parking, particularly near the commercial corridors. Many of us non-old timers owe a debt to the neighborhood's long tradition of civic activism -- those who deflected the proposed highways in the 1960s, who saved McLean Gardens from being razed in the 1970s and 80s, who created the CP historic district later and who preserved Rosedale and Tregaron as DC's first land conservancies open to all in this decade. These efforts required hard, sustained work and were often characterized as a false choice between "no change" and "progress." CP would not be the livable community that it is today without these efforts. (T-shirts designed by John Eaton students proudly call Cleveland Park a "village in the city"). I support a modern Giant store, but also want development that is consistent with the DC Comprehensive Plan requirements.

[Anonymous]

"I would give my right arm for a Wegmans or Harris Teeter that has nice, non-union workers and are truly "easy" to shop at. "

No need to amputate your right arm just yet. There is already such a place in this earthly kingdom. It's called Texas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: I support a modern Giant store, but also want development that is consistent with the DC Comprehensive Plan requirements.

A Comprehensive Plan written in 1958 that codified white flight and envisioned the single occupancy automobile as the primary mode of transportation. Haven't times changed? Shouldn't the built environment change with it, respecting the intrinsic and legal historic values that already exist?

[Anonymous]

Excuse me, but the present Comprehensive Plan was "codified" by the DC Council (including Vince Gray) after Fenty was elected. Surely one can do better than racially-charged references to "white flight."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If it is in fact true that financing for this project is being held because of the NIMBY appeal, then it is a crying shame for the majority of residents (I believe it was close to 95% on a listserv poll) who favor and encourage this grocery store and new residents.

I understand that many of the people who are responsible for this 10+ year debacle are not even residents of the neighborhood or city any longer.

Soon they won't even be residents of this world. When the old farts die, as they surely must soon (lookin' at you Old-Lady-I-Hardly-Paid-Anything-Because-Dirt-Was-Cheap-In-My-Day), maybe CP can loose the snooze.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Most of the people in CP that don't want this development don't know how to use the internet."

I live in Cleveland Park. I even know how to use the Internet. I have kids who walk to school, parks, shops and other places. Most of my neighbors have school age kids, too, but we also value the fact that our neighborhood has a diversity of ages and new and long-time residents. Like our neighborhs, we support thoughtful growth but want a safe environment for our kids to walk -- like other communities we already have problems with a lot of through traffic on narrow side streets and a shortage of street parking, particularly near the commercial corridors. Many of us non-old timers owe a debt to the neighborhood's long tradition of civic activism -- those who deflected the proposed highways in the 1960s, who saved McLean Gardens from being razed in the 1970s and 80s, who created the CP historic district later and who preserved Rosedale and Tregaron as DC's first land conservancies open to all in this decade. These efforts required hard, sustained work and were often characterized as a false choice between "no change" and "progress." CP would not be the livable community that it is today without these efforts. (T-shirts designed by John Eaton students proudly call Cleveland Park a "village in the city"). I support a modern Giant store, but also want development that is consistent with the DC Comprehensive Plan requirements.

The damn shame is that McLean gardens is butt ugly and too isolated from the less-sucky parts of CP to deserve to survive for any reason other than that it represents an important moment in our country's history. Of course, anything built in the 70s and 80s might well have sucked worse...

Put me down as another who tried CP but couldn't stand it.