What kind of grades do you need in law school these days?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There seems to be an underlying assumption on this thread that BigLaw is the goal, the be-all/end-all. That if OP's cousin doesn't qualify to be in BigLaw, she may as well hang it up, that no other job is worth anything.

Yeah, because assuming $100k of debt by age 25 is always always always a good thing.

[Anonymous]

OP here - I definitely want her to succeed. Her work ethic and how she deals with money just worries me. We have a close extended family, and I definitely will feel pressure to help out in a few years. Maybe not directly for the loan, but more with my mother saying things like - 'you know, Cousin really needs a new couch, and with all her loans, it's really tough for her to buy one. Can you help?' In the past, she's actually told family that I would do XYZ for them without even telling me first, so then I on the hook (those issues are for another post).

I can see this happening again and creating some awkward situations. Also, I just care about her and want her to succeed. I just wanted to know if my concern was totally off base, which it sounds like it sort of was, so maybe I don't need to be as concerned. The mom in me just wants her to shoot for As and save money, I guess!

Wait, your concern here is that you will be asked to buy her a new couch several years down the road because she spent too much going to law school? This is getting stranger by the minute.

To the PP who suggested that OP needs to talk to the cousin's parents and educate them about the cousin's job prospects, likely future income, etc, I just have to say, "WTF?!" The OP is not a lawyer, hasn't been to law school, and knows very little about the job market for lawyers (evidenced by her coming on here to ask about it). But she's supposed to have a sit down with the parents of this - adult - cousin and tell them what the deal is?

This cousin was able to graduate from college, take the LSAT, and get herself into law school, where she seems to be doing reasonably well. The cousin really has no clue about her job prospects? Then she must not have ever spoken to a single one of her classmates because grades & job are basically ALL that law students talk about! What business (or credibility) does the OP have calling a meeting with the cousin and her parents to tell them to reign in the spending because the cousin's going to end up with a mediocre job?! That advice is really baffling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This cousin was able to graduate from college, take the LSAT, and get herself into law school, where she seems to be doing reasonably well. The cousin really has no clue about her job prospects? Then she must not have ever spoken to a single one of her classmates because grades & job are basically ALL that law students talk about!

Denial aint just a river in Egypt.

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't worry. I know plenty of young JDs who never went into practicing law who are doing fine - not pulling in biglaw money or even 6 figures, but enough to live in the area comfortably. It would be one thing if she had a family but sounds like she is like a ton of other 20 somethings in law school, and she has a leg up not going to a ridiculously expensive school and having help from her family.

Honestly, doesn't sound that dire to me. She can get a policy job and work her way up to the 70s and 80s pretty easily.

[Anonymous]

OP has home kind of hero complex.

[Anonymous]

I work in BigLaw (not an attorney) and yes, it's hard to get a job even at a firm in the lower end of the AmLaw100 without going to a Top 20 school. Especially nowadays. But, that doesn't mean she can't a decent job anywhere, especially if the market improves. It will just take her awhile to get to the six figure mark and longer to pay off her loans. My good friend went to a great law school, top 10, and is now a public defender. Makes less than I do as a staff person at a law firm. But its his dream and he loves it. Can't say that for every one of the attorneys I work with here.

OP, if you are being asked to support this cousin, that's a problem. I have a cousin who mismanages money and my parents have been asked to help out on several occasions for things that are clearly not their responsibility. But they did it anyway because she is family. I'm all for pitching in when someone is down on their luck and I consider myself a generous person but in my cousin's case, she's just an idiot, is married to an idiot and has no financial sense AT ALL. So, I can see where you are concerned because it sounds like you are being put on the line for her choices.

I would stop worrying about this girl and focus on the bigger problem. The fact that this girl's mother thinks that its ok to ask you to give money to her daughter is crazy. You need to tell her no. Period. I think you said you have kids of your own (?) and trust me, if your kids find out that you are financially supporting a cousin because she can't handle loans that she took on herself, they will get pissed. Or, they will think that kind of behavior is acceptable and you will become your family's ATM machine. Just put your foot down before this spirals out of control.

[Anonymous]

She's not a candidate for big law coming out of UMD anyway, so don't stress.

[Anonymous]

The entire family sounds nutty!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the PP who suggested that OP needs to talk to the cousin's parents and educate them about the cousin's job prospects, likely future income, etc, I just have to say, "WTF?!" The OP is not a lawyer, hasn't been to law school, and knows very little about the job market for lawyers (evidenced by her coming on here to ask about it). But she's supposed to have a sit down with the parents of this - adult - cousin and tell them what the deal is?

This cousin was able to graduate from college, take the LSAT, and get herself into law school, where she seems to be doing reasonably well. The cousin really has no clue about her job prospects? Then she must not have ever spoken to a single one of her classmates because grades & job are basically ALL that law students talk about! What business (or credibility) does the OP have calling a meeting with the cousin and her parents to tell them to reign in the spending because the cousin's going to end up with a mediocre job?! That advice is really baffling.

I am that PP.

OP has come in and said she is going to leaned on to "help" this cousin, which makes it OP's problem. 9:18, you're writing like you expect help from wealthier relatives, at least from the way you dismiss OP's concerns about having to bail out this cousin. So it is entirely within OP's rights to approach the cousin and the cousin's parents and share her concerns, since it seems OP's going to bail out the cousin when she is 28 and making 75k a year and spending like she is making 125k a year.

[Anonymous]

Pp, I'm 9:18 & I'm not sure how you inferred that I ask my "wealthier" relatives to bail me out, but I assure you I have never done that. First, I don't have wealthy relatives, with the exception of my MIL, and we have never, ever asked her for money. DH & I make a lot more than our siblings & my parents, and we would not ask them for money either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here - I definitely want her to succeed. Her work ethic and how she deals with money just worries me. We have a close extended family, and I definitely will feel pressure to help out in a few years. Maybe not directly for the loan, but more with my mother saying things like - 'you know, Cousin really needs a new couch, and with all her loans, it's really tough for her to buy one. Can you help?' In the past, she's actually told family that I would do XYZ for them without even telling me first, so then I on the hook (those issues are for another post).

I can see this happening again and creating some awkward situations. Also, I just care about her and want her to succeed. I just wanted to know if my concern was totally off base, which it sounds like it sort of was, so maybe I don't need to be as concerned. The mom in me just wants her to shoot for As and save money, I guess!

You've as much as admitted that you've got issues with family and money and boundaries. This has led you to believe it's appropriate for you to voice your opinion about your adult cousin's career choices, even when it's clearly unwelcome and based primarily on what you've read on an anonymous internet message board. But really, it's not.

I suspect your "concern" about this particular issue may be based either in past resentment for your bratty cousin or your frustration about not being heard/respected in your family. These emotions may be completely justified, but your actions are not, and will only make the problems worse. It's not easy to be the rational one when the rest of your family is not, or even to know what rational behavior is if you've been raised without it. But you should try. You can't control how other people behave, but you don't need to perpetuate the dysfunctional patterns either.

So this is how a rational person would behave: Drop it. No snide comments, no eye rolls. Smile and congratulate your cousin when she graduates. If and when that speculative awkward moment arrives where you've been committed to purchase a piece of furniture for her without your knowledge, politely decline.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a cousin who is at UMD law with grades in the B/B+ range, maybe middle of her class. She's doing a study program at another university this summer (but no internship), and she will have well over $100,000 in student loans, including undergrad. She also spends money liberally (She gets the loan each semester, so I think she figures she should just spend it, even though she gets a little help from her father and probably doesn't need the full loan amount).

I think a 50k job, if that, is in her future, but she's living it up as though she's headed for big law. Am I overreacting by being stressed about this? Everyone else in my family seems to think I'm a big Debbie Downer about the whole thing. Lots of lawyers on here, I know, so I wanted to get some feedback.

OP, what exactly is it that you would advise your cousin to do? Seriously. Would you tell her to:

--Quit law school? It sounds like a good portion of her loans are already incurred, and if she quits now that would be a total loss.

--Get better grades? Trust me, she knows that, and you are in NO position to give that advice if you've never been to law school yourself.

--Get a summer job or internship? I'd be willing to be she's tried. And again, you have no basis whatsoever to give this advice unless you can intelligently discuss what the options are, what types of jobs would be beneficial to her and how she would go about getting one.

--Stop living it up? It sounds like a good portion of her loans are already incurred, and she's getting help from her father. I doubt that small lifestyle changes at this point would make a meaningful difference in her future debt load.

If these were going to be your suggestions, your family was absolutely justified in telling you to STFU.

[Anonymous]

Still don't get how this is OP's business. Seems like Nosy Parker stuff.

[Anonymous]

"So this is how a rational person would behave: Drop it. No snide comments, no eye rolls. Smile and congratulate your cousin when she graduates. If and when that speculative awkward moment arrives where you've been committed to purchase a piece of furniture for her without your knowledge, politely decline."

Yep

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She's not a candidate for big law coming out of UMD anyway, so don't stress.

lol. cruel, but has some truth to it.