What kind of grades do you need in law school these days?

[Anonymous]

She may do ok at a regional position. DH just left his job at a biglaw regional office in a flyover state. They recently hired a guy from a state school that would get little attention in DC (not straight out of school though). I'm sure they're not paying a whole lot--DH leaving meant they had 100% associate turnover in one year. I think DH was the only one who was making a decent salary, but he's in a very specialized area of law.

[Anonymous]

Maybe OP is concerned because her cousin is family? Hasn't anyone ever been concerned about a family member or wanted to help them along in life? If the OP minds her own business now and her cousin descends into long-term poverty because OP sat quietly as advised, would it then be acceptable for her to help out?

[Anonymous]

Agreed with 5:30, especially if OP's family is the sort that'd expect wealthier relatives to help out those who're "down on their luck."

I might talk about it with the parents what their plan B is, should their kid not make BigLaw (tm). Outline the options -- working in house for $50-100k, working outside the DC area, etc. Once.

After that, it's not OP's problem, UNLESS the rest of the family will be around in a few years expecting OP to help out. FWIW, I didn't get the schadenfreude vibe from OP, more the "I don't want to be part of bailing out this kid in 5 year" vibe.

[Anonymous]

Maybe OP is concerned because her cousin is family? Hasn't anyone ever been concerned about a family member or wanted to help them along in life? If the OP minds her own business now and her cousin descends into long-term poverty because OP sat quietly as advised, would it then be acceptable for her to help out?

"Descends into long-term poverty?" What?? OP's cousin is getting a LAW degree. She's not going to unemployable, she's just not going to land a lucrative BigLaw job.

I understand the burden of law school loans (I had them too) but that's a little farfetched. OP sounds more interested in gloating. I think she's waiting for her big "I told you so" moment when said cousin gets a job making $60K.

[Anonymous]

OP here - I definitely want her to succeed. Her work ethic and how she deals with money just worries me. We have a close extended family, and I definitely will feel pressure to help out in a few years. Maybe not directly for the loan, but more with my mother saying things like - 'you know, Cousin really needs a new couch, and with all her loans, it's really tough for her to buy one. Can you help?' In the past, she's actually told family that I would do XYZ for them without even telling me first, so then I on the hook (those issues are for another post).

I can see this happening again and creating some awkward situations. Also, I just care about her and want her to succeed. I just wanted to know if my concern was totally off base, which it sounds like it sort of was, so maybe I don't need to be as concerned. The mom in me just wants her to shoot for As and save money, I guess!

[Anonymous]

BigLaw is definitely out of the question. I don't know what the Baltimore market looks like but she may have a chance at a midsized regional firm depending on her grades. UMD is considered a very good school for the Baltimore market (compared to UB). I know OP said her grades were B to B+ but with grade inflation these days the more telling number is class rank. Even at a midsized regional firm she probably won't crack $100K, the cost of living, firm size, and client base just won't support the salaries that everyone is used to hearing in DC. She will probably have a nicer work/life balance than those of us in BigLaw in DC...

[Anonymous]

I have a good friend who went to UMD Law. Not sure where she was grade-wise but she did a clerkship after graduation and ended up at a big DC Law firm making lots of $. Of course she hated it but was trapped in by the money she had to pay off... Now she is with the government and much happier. I think the eternal problem with Law School is that people go thinking they will save the world but end up at a firm just to make money and then become miserable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Her grades are fine. Her choice of law school is not great. I would put her much closer to 50K than 100K.

This. Unless you are coming out of a top ten law school, whether or not you make it to BigLaw is almost entirely driven by your first year grades. The lower your school is ranked, the harder it is and the harsher the grade cut offs are. Most BigLaw firms have a list of schools from which they recruit and strict grade cutoffs for them. If you go to a school from which they do not recruit, you have to have a pretty amazing GPA, and even that won't get you in everywhere. I have seen a very top firm refuse to interview someone who was #1 in his class because they were not from one of the "chosen" law schools. When I protested that anyone who was #1 in his class is someone we ought to be talking to, I was told that if the person was so smart, he would have transferred to a better law school. That was BEFORE the recession.

So that person was going to pay for the better school too, right?

Sounds like a must-miss workplace.

[Anonymous]

There seems to be an underlying assumption on this thread that BigLaw is the goal, the be-all/end-all. That if OP's cousin doesn't qualify to be in BigLaw, she may as well hang it up, that no other job is worth anything.

[Anonymous]

$100k in student loans is $1,110.21 with a 6% rate over 10 years; that's not even counting if interest has piled up over the seven years of UG + law, fees, etc.

I'm making 95k and that is about 20% of my take-home right there, never mind if she is offered 70k.

OP needs to talk to the cousin's parents, attempt to educate them and cousin that a $120k+ job is just not likely to happen after graduation, unless (1) cousin has some connections OP isn't talking about or (2) cousin is really hot and finds a senior partner that's willing to keep her around for a few years as essentially a plaything. (Does the latter actually happen?)

OP also needs to learn to say "no" as this cousin appears willing to lie to other family members ...

Some families are more cults than anything else...

[Anonymous]

Biglaw isn't everything. Sure, you make serious bank straight out of law school, but the problem is twofold: 1. people get themselves caught up in a lifestyle that requires that kind of money (golden handcuffs) and 2. Next to no one lasts long-term in biglaw, either by choice or by force.

Meanwhile, my friends who went to small law are all partners in their small firms now and are making money hand over fist. Myself (former biglaw) and my other friends who went to biglaw are 90% assured of never making partner, and have endured waves after waves of layoffs and belt-tightening.

[Anonymous]

MYOB.

[Anonymous]

"OP here - I know it's not really my business, but I am concerned for her, because I know she's not going to have help paying off this loan. I just want her to be smart about this. "

Not your business.
Past behavior predicts future behavior.

[Anonymous]

If she goes into public interest, she can get her loans forgiven after 10 years of service. Also, she can do an income based repayment plan where you apply to have your monthly payments reduced based on your income. That's what my husband is doing not because he has to necessarily but he wants to work in the government so this is a nice added bonus to compensate for a lower salary.

"BIG" Law isn't the end all be all and it isn't for everyone.

[Anonymous]

"I can see this happening again and creating some awkward situations. Also, I just care about her and want her to succeed. I just wanted to know if my concern was totally off base, which it sounds like it sort of was, so maybe I don't need to be as concerned. The mom in me just wants her to shoot for As and save money, I guess! "

OP - you have waaay too much free time on your hands.