Loudoun County FUTURA decisions

[Anonymous]

Interesting discussion. I have twins in the Loudoun county schools, both were selected for the pool with teacher recommendations (and they are in the same class). They have nearly identical grades though my son is a little more difficult in class, has had some developmental learning issues back in Kindergarten (in a different state). His test scores were slightly lower than my daughters. My son is very smart, had memorized all the 50 Presidents, in order, their full names and wives, by 1st grade. To this day if you ask him which president is number 27, he will know. He's an unusual kid... and definitely "smart".

My daughter got into Futura, my son did not. My dd even said when she found out "but he's smarter than me!", and in many ways he is. That said, if someone asked me when my kids were toddlers, did I think they were gifted, I would have said my daughter is. She has always been unusually advanced, by age 18 months she was engaging in full conversations with adults. She is naturally quicker to pick things up that my son and has natural leadership abilities. Frankly she is the one who NEEDS to be in this program because she is so socially aware that she will dumb herself down to fit in with the other kids. So while it is not making me happy to have to explain to my son that he did not get in, I am not going to appeal it because I understand that he is not quite in the same category as my DD. He will be just as successful in life and is just as "smart", but she is definitely "gifted".

I am curious how many they did choose in each grade. I know of two of my DD's friends, who are probably about the same as DS grades and level wise, and they also did not get in. Does anyone know as a percentage of the 3rd grade classes?

[Anonymous]

LOL sorry about the "50 presidents"... I was starting to type the 50 states, because he knew all of them with their capitals by 1st grade as well.

[Anonymous]

Hi 05/22/2012 18:29,
Just curious... Do you work for LCPS GT placements? Though I want to appeal, I feel skeptical about the chances of a positive outcome. Does any one know such cases where an appeal resulted in a placement in Futura? If so, kindly post the details of what they submitted along with the appeal. I've heard that Fairfax is very considerate of the Parent appeals and almost everyone who appeals gets into the GT program. No idea how far thats true.

[Anonymous]

05/22/2012 18:29 - I was initially skeptical like you in assuming that once the review committee has found them ineligible why would they reconsider it during the appeal.

But I have done enough research and spoken to enough parents who have been through the appeal process and have gotten in, to understand that the committee is ready to look at any additional samples that you are ready to provide and reconsider the application.

If the child already had a qualifying score any additional testing like a WISC-IV is not needed right now in appealing. If you however decide not to appeal now, but hope to get a better teacher in 4th grade who can write a better recommendation then you can do the WISC-IV at a leisurely pace and submit it during 4th grade.

[Anonymous]

05/22/2012 20:36 - Good discussion. My thinking is that the program should be offered to kids who have the capability. They might all behave different socially, after all everyone needs to have their own individuality and kids express and exhibit their capabilities in different ways. A kid struggling in Math could actually be really good in solving puzzles. Instead of stereotyping the kid as not being smart since the child is not good in Math, the understanding should be their interests are not in Math or they the way they are instructed needs to be changed. I have known a couple of kids whose IQ scores could be off the charts but are socially inept and very introverted. If such a child does not want to open up their mouth in the classroom how can the teacher understand the child's true capabilities?

[Anonymous]

Hi 05/22/2012 22:04, Glad to hear that some people got in after the appeals. My DC might need to take a WISC, she got a 95% cogat, n 96% NNAT and the teacher SIGS score was not high enough too. So, its a giant task ahead of me considering the timeline to finish the WISC and also to get any possible recommendations/ samples. Do you think its worth the effort? Do you know what the other parents included with their appeals?

[Anonymous]

05/22/2012 22:19 - If your child does not have a qualifying score and does not get the recommendation from the class teacher, the better thing for you to do is make your daughter take the WISC-IV test. But I will not suggest you to rush around now to take the test. Do it at a leisurely pace over the summer and just make sure that your child is well rested and has had a good meal before the WISC test.

[Anonymous]

I talked to search teacher today. She said test score, search sample/portfolio and SIGS forms from class room teacher are the 3 factors. So parent's SIGS form does not seem weighing too much. So it does not look like easy to get success for appeal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: Frankly she is the one who NEEDS to be in this program because she is so socially aware that she will dumb herself down to fit in with the other kids.

I'm sorry, slightly off topic, but this is such a good explanation of why some kids really NEED these programs. It can make such a difference long term for a child to be surrounded by peers and teachers who really "get" that child's personality and needs.

[Anonymous]

interesting thoughts, I have 3 children, only two in Elementary school. I think that my middle son, who is the LEAST socially aware (possibility of Aspergers), will likely be the one who might most need the challenge of an advanced program. He knows so much, even in K, that he has really kept his teachers on their toes (they have been awesome). Also, I fear he might be the type to become really distracted if the material is too easy, and thus be seen as a "behavior" issue, though that has not been a problem yet. Even his 4th grade brother, who is in a FCPS advanced program often says "how on earth does he know about everything", lol.

[Anonymous]

ha ha, my son is the same way (the one who did not get into the GT program). But for him because he is not socially aware and himself borders on aspergers, he doesn't mind being the brainiac in class and still is challenged and interested in his work. They have done a great job in our school of catering to the more advanced students and he has been regularly doing 4th grade math since December in his 3rd grade class, with a group of other advanced students. Can't say it about all the schools, but I am not worried about him in our school, I am very impressed with how they deal wtih the range of abilities (count me in the minority I know...but this may be one reason our school is one of the tops in the county and state for that matter).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hi 05/22/2012 18:29,
Just curious... Do you work for LCPS GT placements? Though I want to appeal, I feel skeptical about the chances of a positive outcome. Does any one know such cases where an appeal resulted in a placement in Futura? If so, kindly post the details of what they submitted along with the appeal. I've heard that Fairfax is very considerate of the Parent appeals and almost everyone who appeals gets into the GT program. No idea how far thats true.

About 50% of appeals are successful in Fairfax County, and those that don't include new test scores almost never succeed.

[Anonymous]

I am a parent who posted on this thread last year when my son was going through the identification process for Futura. He was selected and I would say that less than 10% of his fourth grade class attends Futura. I also know many other kids with high test scores that did not get in. I did look at his portfolio and was shocked at what was presented for him. Luckily he had test scores and the teacher recommendation, since the work submitted by his SEARCH teacher was not great at all and so he got 2 out of the 3 sections. Futura has been great for him, loves his teacher and is being challenged to really think outside the box. But I do know some of his friends did drop out this year. Had a hard time keeping up with missed work in the classroom, did not enjoy the Futura lessons, etc. It is not for everyone and definitely nothing like FCPS. Not sure if he will continue with Spectrum in middle school, we will wait and see.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Hi 05/22/2012 18:29,
Just curious... Do you work for LCPS GT placements? Though I want to appeal, I feel skeptical about the chances of a positive outcome. Does any one know such cases where an appeal resulted in a placement in Futura? If so, kindly post the details of what they submitted along with the appeal. I've heard that Fairfax is very considerate of the Parent appeals and almost everyone who appeals gets into the GT program. No idea how far thats true.

No, I do not work for LCPS GT currently. I am the parent of a FUTURA student and am quite familiar with all aspects of the process, as a former gifted teacher. Appeals without an additional test score (WISC-IV) are usually unlikely to reverse decisions. HOWEVER, the reality is that there are numbers in play here. FUTURA targets offering services to the intellectually gifted AND to an additional population who will likely benefit from participating-- they target 10% (while statistically, the gifted population is 3%). There is also a teacher earning a robust salary at each of these centers. They do need to have the numbers to support these teachers, since many, many LCPS schools are at maximum class sizes in traditional classrooms. If they do no have full classes in FUTURA, these teachers are much needed elsewhere.

I have not heard of many decision reversals in recent years, at least in Central Loudoun. I know ten people who have appealed and ten people whose appeals have failed (at least one of whom had, what I would consider, an extremely bright child WITH CogATs and NNATs both in 98th%tile).

This County is full of parents who advocate for their children on every level. A cogent, concise appeal that does not include extreme behavior (I once saw a parent walk in with a 3 foot Tae Kwon Do trophy) is nothing to be ashamed of.

And, 10 days to notify of pursuit of appeal is plenty. Call any psychologist in the area to schedule a WISC-IV. The test takes 2 hours to administer and the psychologist know it "'tis the season." Many are able to give you a score and quick summary on site that day, with the official results coming via email within a week. The full scale IQ and report are a valuable tool to understanding your child and how his/her mind works. It translates to much more than a weapon in the gifted eligibility process.

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Hi 05/22/2012 18:29,
Just curious... Do you work for LCPS GT placements? Though I want to appeal, I feel skeptical about the chances of a positive outcome. Does any one know such cases where an appeal resulted in a placement in Futura? If so, kindly post the details of what they submitted along with the appeal. I've heard that Fairfax is very considerate of the Parent appeals and almost everyone who appeals gets into the GT program. No idea how far thats true.

No, I do not work for LCPS GT currently. I am the parent of a FUTURA student and am quite familiar with all aspects of the process, as a former gifted teacher. Appeals without an additional test score (WISC-IV) are usually unlikely to reverse decisions. HOWEVER, the reality is that there are numbers in play here. FUTURA targets offering services to the intellectually gifted AND to an additional population who will likely benefit from participating-- they target 10% (while statistically, the gifted population is 3%). There is also a teacher earning a robust salary at each of these centers. They do need to have the numbers to support these teachers, since many, many LCPS schools are at maximum class sizes in traditional classrooms. If they do no have full classes in FUTURA, these teachers are much needed elsewhere.

I have not heard of many decision reversals in recent years, at least in Central Loudoun. I know ten people who have appealed and ten people whose appeals have failed (at least one of whom had, what I would consider, an extremely bright child WITH CogATs and NNATs both in 98th%tile).

This County is full of parents who advocate for their children on every level. A cogent, concise appeal that does not include extreme behavior (I once saw a parent walk in with a 3 foot Tae Kwon Do trophy) is nothing to be ashamed of.

And, 10 days to notify of pursuit of appeal is plenty. Call any psychologist in the area to schedule a WISC-IV. The test takes 2 hours to administer and the psychologist know it "'tis the season." Many are able to give you a score and quick summary on site that day, with the official results coming via email within a week. The full scale IQ and report are a valuable tool to understanding your child and how his/her mind works. It translates to much more than a weapon in the gifted eligibility process.

Good luck!

I also forgot to mention-- comparing LCPS and FCPS is ill advised on many, many levels. Different demographics, different mission, different process, different results. Not better, not worse, just different.