Furlough Q: Are You (or DH) "Essential"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So essential employees will continue to get paid? I just thought they'd be required to continue working, but without a paycheck. (my DH is essential).

This issue was raised during the last shutdown. The AFGE sued OPM on the grounds that essential employees were being forced to work without the possibility of receiving a paycheck. And while it seemed rather clear that with non-essential personnel being furloughed (i.e. payroll employees) that the essential employees would not receive a pay check on pay day, the Judge refused to grant a restraining order (which would have allowed the essential employees to not work without a guarantee of pay). The Judge's reason was that at the time the TRO motion was brought before him (Nov. 17, 1995) a pay day had not passed, so the employees had not missed a pay check and, therefore, the argument that they would miss a pay check in the future was too speculative a harm. Also, the harm of not receiving a pay check could be remedied by a retroactive payment of the salary due. For the legal nerds out there - 1995 WL 697236 and 150 LRRM 2922.

When it came time to issue a ruling on the issues in the lawsuit (a few years later on Feb. 12, 1998), the government had reopened so the Judge dismissed the case as moot. What is interesting is that in determining that th case was moot, he made the determination that the issues raised in the case did not fall into the category of "capable of repetition" because the paintiffs could not show that THEY would be subjected to the same action again. 995 F.Supp 165.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP here. I have no idea if I am essential. Presumably DH (FBI agent) is, but they may not have all agents report. I hope we don't have to deal with this.

Mine is an 1811 at a different agency. He worked last time and was paid during that time as well. He said this time he has been told only if they have a critical pending case they will be on duty.

[Anonymous]

Re: patent office being essential. Not true. Government agencies that generate their own revenue - like the patent office and postal service - are not subject to shutdown, since the shutdown is due to being out of money. Different funding pools.

I don't know anyone who is 'smug' about their job security, but I do know that almost everyone in my agencu could be making a LOT more money in the private sector, but are here b/c they care about public service. I'm happy to see them have job security because of it, and you should be, too.

Essential employees work but do not get paid, I believe. And not every agency tried to designate everyone as essential - there were about 5 people in my entire 10 story building.

And now a question: I heard that in the last shut down folks had to pay their health insurance premium not being paid by the gov't) themselves. Does anyone know if that's true and if, in addition to not getting a paycheck we should expect to have to pay out the gov't and our paycheck-deducted contribution?

[Anonymous]

PP, I'm not sure that agencies that generate their own revenue are guaranteed to be exampt from a shutdown. I am at the PTO now and during the last shutdown I was at another agency that generated its own revenue and we worked and were paid. However, this time all everyone is saying is that they "hope" we will be exempt from the shutdown but noone really knows.

[Anonymous]

Not all govt employees make less money than private sectors employees. I'm so tired of hearing that. I went from govt to private and make about the same with worse benefits. Yes, my choice and it was the right one for a variety of reasons, but please stop perpetuating the myth that all govt works make peanuts. It is not true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not all govt employees make less money than private sectors employees. I'm so tired of hearing that. I went from govt to private and make about the same with worse benefits. Yes, my choice and it was the right one for a variety of reasons, but please stop perpetuating the myth that all govt works make peanuts. It is not true.

I don't think the PP was saying that all government workers make less money than the private sector. The comment was specific to the PP's agency. And I think the apparently widespread myth out there right now is actually that government workers are overpaid (and lazy), not that they're underpaid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not all govt employees make less money than private sectors employees. I'm so tired of hearing that. I went from govt to private and make about the same with worse benefits. Yes, my choice and it was the right one for a variety of reasons, but please stop perpetuating the myth that all govt works make peanuts. It is not true.

If you read better, you would know that it's not ALL govt employees who make less money than private sector ones--it's been shown that WHITE COLLAR govt employees make less, but that blue collar ones actually make more than their private sector counterparts.

[Anonymous]

Where did I say that all government employees make more? I said, and I'm pasting directly from my post: "almost everyone in my agencu could be making a LOT more money in the private sector." (See? I even included my typo.)

Don't jump on me unless I actually did what you're accusing me of. Makes you seriously less credible, for one.

[Anonymous]

As an attorney I make less now than I did at my law firm. Hell, even at the top of the GS-15 I'd make less than I did just a few years out of school. But I think there are a number of people in support positions, such as HR, that probably do better in the government than in the provate sector. So the generalizations about feds making more or less than their private industry counter parts are just useless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Re: patent office being essential. Not true. Government agencies that generate their own revenue - like the patent office and postal service - are not subject to shutdown, since the shutdown is due to being out of money. Different funding pools.

I don't know anyone who is 'smug' about their job security, but I do know that almost everyone in my agencu could be making a LOT more money in the private sector, but are here b/c they care about public service. I'm happy to see them have job security because of it, and you should be, too.

Essential employees work but do not get paid, I believe. And not every agency tried to designate everyone as essential - there were about 5 people in my entire 10 story building.

And now a question: I heard that in the last shut down folks had to pay their health insurance premium not being paid by the gov't) themselves. Does anyone know if that's true and if, in addition to not getting a paycheck we should expect to have to pay out the gov't and our paycheck-deducted contribution?

Okay--guess I should rephrase that..PTO may not be "essential" but we did keep working AND getting paid during the last shutdown.

This is because we generate billions in fees. I think it would be the same this go around---but who knows.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As an attorney I make less now than I did at my law firm. Hell, even at the top of the GS-15 I'd make less than I did just a few years out of school. But I think there are a number of people in support positions, such as HR, that probably do better in the government than in the provate sector. So the generalizations about feds making more or less than their private industry counter parts are just useless.

Agree with this. Pretty sure there was a study that came out not long ago that showed that higher-ups were underpaid compared to private sector, whereas lower levels were overpaid. And there was a study showing that the "stability premium" for a gov't employee (i.e. the lower risk of being laid off) ranged from 15 to 30% of base salary.

[Anonymous]

If govvies and contractors don't get backpaid, the GOP is risking a huge backlash among Northern VA voters who by definition won't buy into the "government is evil" rhetoric 100%.

Of course the American people have been saying for several months, cut spending but not the spending I like.

Let's see if they are ready to put their ass on the line for what they claim to want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If govvies and contractors don't get backpaid, the GOP is risking a huge backlash among Northern VA voters who by definition won't buy into the "government is evil" rhetoric 100%.

Of course the American people have been saying for several months, cut spending but not the spending I like.

Let's see if they are ready to put their ass on the line for what they claim to want.

They are not worried about this. They have done the math and worked out that most public sector workers vote democrat anyway, and you can seize the opportunity of the crisis to turn the private sector workers against the public sector workers. Just look at all the comments on this board from people revelling in the shutdown.

[Anonymous]

Maybe I will just pay my "essential bills" and all other "nonessential bills" will just have to wait for their money

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DH is essential. He's an FBI Agent. I think his biggest concern is doing without the support staff...like his wonderful secretary.

Why the need for secretaries these days of computers? I thought this was one of the professions that the computer age has done away with.