Shell-shocked student - on to Deal?

[Anonymous]

"It's easy to say that parents should vote-with-their-feet by going charter, private or moving. That's not realistic. Parents should be able to air legit concerns about their schools (yes, even the so-called "best" ones) without being, as one poster said, shut-down and shut-out. Truly great schools (and great PTAs and great principals) are able to accommodate constructive criticism.
Parents like the OP, have every right to question their schools and expect positive results. They also have the right to expect their PTA to work hard to make sure these schools are excellent (rather than just pretending that it is so). True, no school is perfect, but the ongoing pretense at some of the JKLMs is jarring to many parents once they see the reality."

Name the school where you had this experience, please.

Here, I'll go first. My child goes to Janney and there is absolutely no truth to the idea that Janney parents feel that they cannot air their concerns. In fact, the principal spends an inordinate amount of time making sure all parent voices are heard. And I have yet to meet a parent who believes the school is "perfect" or that is trying to create a pretense with outsiders that it is.

Okay, who's next?

[Anonymous]

Am I the only one who finds the PP ironic. Let's see, someone with primarily positive comments about their school feels perfectly comfortable voicing their positive experience (fine, nothing wrong with that) yet proceeds to goad, challenge and provoke those with not-so-positive experiences to "fess up" and name names, etc.
Perhaps others at your own school would chose not to share their experiences with you given your fairly strident insistence that there is "absolutely not truth to the idea that Janney parents feel that they cannot air their concerns." Isn't this exactly the type of unresponsive/unreceptive attitude that we've been discussing? Wouldn't be on the PTA would you?

[Anonymous]

thanks 16:09. How would 14:41 know what other Janney parents feel?

[Anonymous]

Yes, I'm parent that talked about Watkins and the Cluster School Kool-aide.

14:41 sort of sums of the experience. "Yer, fer us, or again' us."

I will be the first to admit that I LOATHE parents who do nothing but gripe and moan about how their DC isn't getting all they need, but are never there to roll up there sleeves and lend a hand to solve problems

I think what many are trying to say here is that at some schools there are things that are working. However, there are some things that are, quite frankly, a hot mess.

If parents want to address the hot mess that is most of DCPS and try to make it better, hear them. Let them help.

No school is perfect. The Cluster Schools weaknesses, despite high parental involvement should serve as a cautionary tale.

And I agree that the parents who are often the most strident are the first ones to get out of dodge when presented with the opportunity.

[Anonymous]

I'll go - Lafayette parent with a mixed experience. Love many aspects of the school (the feeling the school projects, the excellent arts integration, some very good teachers), but now see more warts - for example, an absolute reluctance by the principal to either get rid of - or help improve - the not-so-great-teachers that almost every parent in the school can name. I also feel that the higher grades are particularly lackluster and leave many kids not really prepared for whatever middle school they attend, Deal or private. Class size is now much larger than several years ago and it most definitely impacts on learning and what can be accomplished. All of this leaves me wondering whether I will be willing to keep my DC there for the entirety of their elementary school years.

[Anonymous]

To the poster who doubts those of us who would spend $30K on school are not on this board, excuse me, we have sent more than one child through DCPS for many, many years and have invested heavily in our publics. As they get older, and we are not Deal Boundary (if we were, btw, it is hands down the very best MS option for public, and maybe will be a better fit for plenty of private school kids --they totally streamline everything and it is not chaotic) it became clear that our middle/high school options were shrinking in public. Our older child absolutely proved that investing in a particular private was necessary, unless we were willing to move. We're not. Our younger is in DCPS and we fervently hope that DCPS MS options are improved enough by the time number 2 comes of this age that we don't have to pay the freight x 2. Unfortunately, Rhee didn't do much to improve any schools at all. Someone give me an example, and then back it up with her test score goals. Sounds as if, OP, your kid just didn't like the move in the first place. I would give Deal a chance.

[Anonymous]

Key -- you either tell everyone it's an amazing school or you keep quiet (and apply to every private you can think of). Actually, plenty pretend to think it's amazing while applying to private. And the PTA is, indeed, run by a handful of moms who send their older children to private or parochial. Not exactly a group that's interested in addressing problems and/or the needs families that don't have their alternative options. Not a place where voicing concerns is effective or appreciated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Key -- you either tell everyone it's an amazing school or you keep quiet (and apply to every private you can think of). Actually, plenty pretend to think it's amazing while applying to private. And the PTA is, indeed, run by a handful of moms who send their older children to private or parochial. Not exactly a group that's interested in addressing problems and/or the needs families that don't have their alternative options. Not a place where voicing concerns is effective or appreciated.

Ditto Mann.

[Anonymous]

I hear similar rumbling from parents even in Fairfax and Montgomery. I ask this a bit rhetorically, but what is happening? Are schools really that awful compared to when we were kids? Are we just more anxious? I know am not happy with my child's school and hoping to get in one of the upper NW schools via the lottery. Am I buying a pipe dream?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Agreed. I think this can happen anywhere, no school is perfect. The difference with you schools you mention, however, is that those schools have a record of objective achievements. It seems the DC schools we're discussing can't compete on that objective measurement -- which is why pretending they are "amazing" is all the more damaging.

On what "objective" measurement can't the JKLM schools compete with MoCo schools?

[Anonymous]

To some extent, I think this is what happens when you have choice - whether charter, OOB or private/parochial.

I recall that a finding of the study on the DC voucher program was that parents who got vouchers for their kids were more likely to switch schools multiple times than people who didn't. That is - once they had more options, they used them.

Another finding of the study is that voucher parents were happier than non-voucher parents, the kids were not any happier and academic performance was about the same, voucher or non-voucher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To some extent, I think this is what happens when you have choice - whether charter, OOB or private/parochial.

I recall that a finding of the study on the DC voucher program was that parents who got vouchers for their kids were more likely to switch schools multiple times than people who didn't. That is - once they had more options, they used them.

Another finding of the study is that voucher parents were happier than non-voucher parents, the kids were not any happier and academic performance was about the same, voucher or non-voucher.

I'd be interested to actually see that study. I'm skeptical about the claim of academic performance being the same, and would be very curious as to the underlying data relative to which schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the poster who doubts those of us who would spend $30K on school are not on this board

I am sorry that you misunderstood what I meant. Essentially, I was trying to point out that the phenomenon of parents "talking up their school" when there were actually problems is not limited to NW elementary schools. As others have pointed out this happens all over, even in MoCo. My point was that this happens in DC private schools as well. Tthose who spend $30,000/year/child (especially when it is a financial strain) have even more reason to "talk up their school" as they have made a huge investment and who wants to seem unhappy with a expenditure that large. The people who I doubted were on this board were those who were wealthy enough to not think twice about spending that kind of money and therefore whose opinion about the quality of a private school would be less suspect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agreed. I think this can happen anywhere, no school is perfect. The difference with you schools you mention, however, is that those schools have a record of objective achievements. It seems the DC schools we're discussing can't compete on that objective measurement -- which is why pretending they are "amazing" is all the more damaging.

On what "objective" measurement can't the JKLM schools compete with MoCo schools?

I believe Montgomery County Schools are ranked at the top of school systems nationwide and DCPS is among the worst.

JKLM schools have the same curriculum as other DCPS schools. Anecdotally (so take it with a grain of salt), many former-JKLM families who are shocked by the rigor and depth of curriculum after moving to FCPS, MCPS or privates. It is not uncommon for JKLM families be told that their child is doing great only to find that same child is woefully behind after moving to a more competent school environment. Plenty of former JKLM families spend months/years with extra tutoring so that their child can simply keep up after such a move.

So often we think of JKLM as "real" designation. It isn't -- those schools are still just a part of a broken system. JKLM doesn't get its own curriculum, its own standards of achievement, etc. I think this realization is why people feel the disconnect that the OP first mentioned when she began this thread.

[Anonymous]

The Montgomery county school curriculum is impressive! Take a tour of Deal and then go to Westland (or Pyle) and you will see the difference. The catalog of courses shows depth and variety especially in math. Also your child can take 4th grade math for example in 3rd grade - something my kid couldn't do at a JKLM school.

That said, i think the well admired Moco schools are getting more crowded (some ridiculously so) - worse than DC. And they have recently cut the specials. Plus they don't have the flexibility for the parents to fund extra teachers.

We ended up a parachial school and are doing fine. They have standardized achievement testing so at least i can gauge how they are doing academically against mont county who uses the same test.