Question for the parents of STEM kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If some people believe that it is more difficult as a so-called "STEM" major to get into schools like Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc.--schools that do not admit based on major and do not require students to declare a major until after sophomore year--why not just apply as an easy humanities major? I am assuming that like most applicants to these schools, the Verbal and Math sections of the SAT are both stellar. I am also assuming that the APs in high school were both STEM and Humanities.

So, why torture yourself?

Because STEM kids often want to do a lot of stem things in high school. Plus, the system works for the vast majority: true top unhooked stem kids can get into at least ONE ivy/T15 stem private (Stanford, MIT, JHU CMU Rice Northwestern Duke Chicago...)or at least one of UCB /GT /Michigan OOS. It really is not that hard for the true top ones. Most get into more than one among this vast group.

I don't know if this is true. I know of a truly amazing top unhooked STEM kid at my kid's school who was going for chemical engineering. He was deferred and then rejected from Penn. Was waitlisted at Harvard, Cornell, UMich, GT, UCB and rejected from the other schools you listed. He is attending Univ. of Washington (in Seattle). He was not one-dimensional either - he was concermaster of the orchestra and also played Bass in a popular school band and was part of a group that won a STEM competition.

An anecdote to counter yours. My STEM kid was admitted to MIT, Harvard, Rice, GT, Michigan and many others. Was also offered a full ride at one school and lots of merit at Rice, etc. so what might have been the difference? I noticed you said your kid’s classmate was part of a group that won a STEM competition. Mine placed in a few competitions INDIVIDUALLY. Had other interests like music etc as well but a clear interest in STEM and kicked b*tt in their field.

Which school did your kid choose?

[Anonymous]

That is a horrible strategy!

They can't afford to only think about reach schools, but also need to focus on their targets, which include many state flagships having separate admissions for engineering or CS.

Great if they could get into ivies and switch major to CS. What if they didn't get into ivies? Then they will end up at state flagship majoring in philosophy??? There is no way they can switch to CS at these state flagships.

[Anonymous]

Just because a school “does not admit by major”, that doesn’t mean that having an indicated major that aligns well with the applicant’s ECs and essays isn’t the best move possible. If your student is trying to get into a pre-med path at a top school and the ECs and best versions of their essays strongly support that interest, who would applying as a humanities major be the right move?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If some people believe that it is more difficult as a so-called "STEM" major to get into schools like Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc.--schools that do not admit based on major and do not require students to declare a major until after sophomore year--why not just apply as an easy humanities major? I am assuming that like most applicants to these schools, the Verbal and Math sections of the SAT are both stellar. I am also assuming that the APs in high school were both STEM and Humanities.

So, why torture yourself?

Because STEM kids often want to do a lot of stem things in high school. Plus, the system works for the vast majority: true top unhooked stem kids can get into at least ONE ivy/T15 stem private (Stanford, MIT, JHU CMU Rice Northwestern Duke Chicago...)or at least one of UCB /GT /Michigan OOS. It really is not that hard for the true top ones. Most get into more than one among this vast group.

I don't know if this is true. I know of a truly amazing top unhooked STEM kid at my kid's school who was going for chemical engineering. He was deferred and then rejected from Penn. Was waitlisted at Harvard, Cornell, UMich, GT, UCB and rejected from the other schools you listed. He is attending Univ. of Washington (in Seattle). He was not one-dimensional either - he was concermaster of the orchestra and also played Bass in a popular school band and was part of a group that won a STEM competition.

An anecdote to counter yours. My STEM kid was admitted to MIT, Harvard, Rice, GT, Michigan and many others. Was also offered a full ride at one school and lots of merit at Rice, etc. so what might have been the difference? I noticed you said your kid’s classmate was part of a group that won a STEM competition. Mine placed in a few competitions INDIVIDUALLY. Had other interests like music etc as well but a clear interest in STEM and kicked b*tt in their field.

Gender of your kid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If some people believe that it is more difficult as a so-called "STEM" major to get into schools like Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc.--schools that do not admit based on major and do not require students to declare a major until after sophomore year--why not just apply as an easy humanities major? I am assuming that like most applicants to these schools, the Verbal and Math sections of the SAT are both stellar. I am also assuming that the APs in high school were both STEM and Humanities.

So, why torture yourself?

I wouldn’t ask my kid to lie about who they are for someone else’s approval, that’s why.

[Anonymous]

A lot of schools don’t allow or drastically limit transfer into popular STEM majors or colleges. So what’s the point?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard and Yale are generally not where top STEM students go. But to your point, every admissions officer can tell what a student is likely to major in. Someone that has won poetry prizes and does theater is not likely to choose engineering. Someone that is president of the math club and has won science awards is not likely to be a gender studies major. And so on and so forth.

Selective schools have decades of data. They generally know what they are doing as they put together a broad and varied class. There really aren't a lot of humanities students trying to sneak into engineering or business.

Not always true. We know a kid who had his picking between Princeton, Stanford, Yale and Harvard and it came down to the later two.

For STEM?!?!?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard and Yale are generally not where top STEM students go. But to your point, every admissions officer can tell what a student is likely to major in. Someone that has won poetry prizes and does theater is not likely to choose engineering. Someone that is president of the math club and has won science awards is not likely to be a gender studies major. And so on and so forth.

Selective schools have decades of data. They generally know what they are doing as they put together a broad and varied class. There really aren't a lot of humanities students trying to sneak into engineering or business.

Not always true. We know a kid who had his picking between Princeton, Stanford, Yale and Harvard and it came down to the later two.

I mean, of course it's not true. Harvard was the original silicon valley school.

They actually ended committing to Yale.

For STEM!?!?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard and Yale are generally not where top STEM students go. But to your point, every admissions officer can tell what a student is likely to major in. Someone that has won poetry prizes and does theater is not likely to choose engineering. Someone that is president of the math club and has won science awards is not likely to be a gender studies major. And so on and so forth.

Selective schools have decades of data. They generally know what they are doing as they put together a broad and varied class. There really aren't a lot of humanities students trying to sneak into engineering or business.

Not always true. We know a kid who had his picking between Princeton, Stanford, Yale and Harvard and it came down to the later two.

For STEM?!?!?

Likely an Olympiad gold medalist or some such.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard and Yale are generally not where top STEM students go. But to your point, every admissions officer can tell what a student is likely to major in. Someone that has won poetry prizes and does theater is not likely to choose engineering. Someone that is president of the math club and has won science awards is not likely to be a gender studies major. And so on and so forth.

Selective schools have decades of data. They generally know what they are doing as they put together a broad and varied class. There really aren't a lot of humanities students trying to sneak into engineering or business.

Not always true. We know a kid who had his picking between Princeton, Stanford, Yale and Harvard and it came down to the later two.

I mean, of course it's not true. Harvard was the original silicon valley school.

They actually ended committing to Yale.

For STEM!?!?!

Yes! Engineering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard and Yale are generally not where top STEM students go. But to your point, every admissions officer can tell what a student is likely to major in. Someone that has won poetry prizes and does theater is not likely to choose engineering. Someone that is president of the math club and has won science awards is not likely to be a gender studies major. And so on and so forth.

Selective schools have decades of data. They generally know what they are doing as they put together a broad and varied class. There really aren't a lot of humanities students trying to sneak into engineering or business.

Not always true. We know a kid who had his picking between Princeton, Stanford, Yale and Harvard and it came down to the later two.

I mean, of course it's not true. Harvard was the original silicon valley school.

They actually ended committing to Yale.

For STEM!?!?!

Yes! Engineering.

Yikes. Of the choices should have chosen Stanford.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If some people believe that it is more difficult as a so-called "STEM" major to get into schools like Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc.--schools that do not admit based on major and do not require students to declare a major until after sophomore year--why not just apply as an easy humanities major? I am assuming that like most applicants to these schools, the Verbal and Math sections of the SAT are both stellar. I am also assuming that the APs in high school were both STEM and Humanities.

So, why torture yourself?

Because STEM kids often want to do a lot of stem things in high school. Plus, the system works for the vast majority: true top unhooked stem kids can get into at least ONE ivy/T15 stem private (Stanford, MIT, JHU CMU Rice Northwestern Duke Chicago...)or at least one of UCB /GT /Michigan OOS. It really is not that hard for the true top ones. Most get into more than one among this vast group.

I don't know if this is true. I know of a truly amazing top unhooked STEM kid at my kid's school who was going for chemical engineering. He was deferred and then rejected from Penn. Was waitlisted at Harvard, Cornell, UMich, GT, UCB and rejected from the other schools you listed. He is attending Univ. of Washington (in Seattle). He was not one-dimensional either - he was concermaster of the orchestra and also played Bass in a popular school band and was part of a group that won a STEM competition.

Then he was not top. Full stop. He did not have top grades and scores or he did not have top rigor. There are many students targeting engineering who do not take the hardest level of physics and math at the school and knock out 5s on the AP. And 770+ on math. That is mandatory for unhooked Mich, GT. For Penn/ivies the concertmaster is a boost if you have the former stem quals, but it is also expected that in addition to top stem there are top-level english classes, hardest history APs, and foreign language through AP. All with top grades to be as close to 4.0uw in all areas as possible (unless at top top boarding or private where only 1 or 2 students have a true 4.0 uw yet 15 % of the class goes to ivies).
That is what it takes unhooked. I have never seen one who had ALL of that not get in to at least one of the schools you mentioned. Never.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard and Yale are generally not where top STEM students go. But to your point, every admissions officer can tell what a student is likely to major in. Someone that has won poetry prizes and does theater is not likely to choose engineering. Someone that is president of the math club and has won science awards is not likely to be a gender studies major. And so on and so forth.

Selective schools have decades of data. They generally know what they are doing as they put together a broad and varied class. There really aren't a lot of humanities students trying to sneak into engineering or business.

Not always true. We know a kid who had his picking between Princeton, Stanford, Yale and Harvard and it came down to the later two.

For STEM?!?!?

Harvard and yes even Yale are great at stem. Only DCUM doesn't understand that. Professors know it, top-phd stem programs know it. Of course Princeton stanford and other ivy/T10 are too. It comes down to campus and fit at that level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard and Yale are generally not where top STEM students go. But to your point, every admissions officer can tell what a student is likely to major in. Someone that has won poetry prizes and does theater is not likely to choose engineering. Someone that is president of the math club and has won science awards is not likely to be a gender studies major. And so on and so forth.

Selective schools have decades of data. They generally know what they are doing as they put together a broad and varied class. There really aren't a lot of humanities students trying to sneak into engineering or business.

Not always true. We know a kid who had his picking between Princeton, Stanford, Yale and Harvard and it came down to the later two.

I mean, of course it's not true. Harvard was the original silicon valley school.

They actually ended committing to Yale.

For STEM!?!?!

Yes! Engineering.

Yikes. Of the choices should have chosen Stanford.

Stanford has much bigger undergrad engineering courses as well as overall cohort than the other 3. Yale has the smallest of those listed, cohort and students per course, and hence the least competition to be among the top couple of handfuls of undergrads in Engineering there, get into a lab early, TA, etc. Presuming the engineering they want is the types Yale has. It would not and in fact was not my engineer's pick, but I understand the pull of what Yale could offer a specific type of kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A lot of schools don’t allow or drastically limit transfer into popular STEM majors or colleges. So what’s the point?

. The point of the thread is the truth that the top/ivy level privates very much DO allow it, as they do not admit by major.
In fact since the engineering is not a large portion of undergraduates, transferring into the engineering school for the ivies that require application to that school is often not too hard. Or simply major in physics and take some engineering electives or get a 4+1 masters in E if you cannot transfer into undergrad E. That is why AOs have to admit the true humanities kids and not be fooled, because stem is so popular and this is a known potential hack.