Question for the parents of STEM kids

[Anonymous]

If some people believe that it is more difficult as a so-called "STEM" major to get into schools like Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc.--schools that do not admit based on major and do not require students to declare a major until after sophomore year--why not just apply as an easy humanities major? I am assuming that like most applicants to these schools, the Verbal and Math sections of the SAT are both stellar. I am also assuming that the APs in high school were both STEM and Humanities.

So, why torture yourself?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If some people believe that it is more difficult as a so-called "STEM" major to get into schools like Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc.--schools that do not admit based on major and do not require students to declare a major until after sophomore year--why not just apply as an easy humanities major? I am assuming that like most applicants to these schools, the Verbal and Math sections of the SAT are both stellar. I am also assuming that the APs in high school were both STEM and Humanities.

So, why torture yourself?

AO's at these schools are like a bloodhound chasing a skunk's scent...they can sniff out the Asian's CS subterfuge from a mile away.

[Anonymous]

The entire profile needs to match the stated interest.

[Anonymous]

You could do this, but you would have to get their kid to suppress their stem side in high school and not join the stem clubs, and instead spend their time working the humanities angle in extracurriculars. This only works if your kid is willing to do all that when they enjoy STEM a lot more. My kid has a near perfect verbal score and does well in history, English, etc. but there is no way they could pose like this for four years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If some people believe that it is more difficult as a so-called "STEM" major to get into schools like Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc.--schools that do not admit based on major and do not require students to declare a major until after sophomore year--why not just apply as an easy humanities major? I am assuming that like most applicants to these schools, the Verbal and Math sections of the SAT are both stellar. I am also assuming that the APs in high school were both STEM and Humanities.

So, why torture yourself?

What torture? Sounds pretty unethical. If a school doesnt want my kid , "as is", we move on i.e. UVA WL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If some people believe that it is more difficult as a so-called "STEM" major to get into schools like Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc.--schools that do not admit based on major and do not require students to declare a major until after sophomore year--why not just apply as an easy humanities major? I am assuming that like most applicants to these schools, the Verbal and Math sections of the SAT are both stellar. I am also assuming that the APs in high school were both STEM and Humanities.

So, why torture yourself?

The AOs look at the activities and awards and can tell a stem kid from a humanities kid. Yes they expect top scores from both, in case they do decide to change they want them to be able to succeed in any major, at least for the unhooked. But they are not fooled and do not want anymore secret finance bros or secret premeds(almost all female these days--there are already too many females in general in the applicant pool: top schools gender balance and actively look for males overall, in any major; and non-premed, non-BME or Environmental Science females. There are simply too many).

Unfortunately it is quite common for hooked students to be pushed into easier majors after they get there(if they got in with stem interest). Many cannot handle it. There have been students who have written their sob stories in campus newsrags pining that premed or econ was too hard and they had to switch out. Recruited athletes are often pushed toward easier options before they are admitted.

[Anonymous]

Harvard and Yale are generally not where top STEM students go. But to your point, every admissions officer can tell what a student is likely to major in. Someone that has won poetry prizes and does theater is not likely to choose engineering. Someone that is president of the math club and has won science awards is not likely to be a gender studies major. And so on and so forth.

Selective schools have decades of data. They generally know what they are doing as they put together a broad and varied class. There really aren't a lot of humanities students trying to sneak into engineering or business.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If some people believe that it is more difficult as a so-called "STEM" major to get into schools like Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc.--schools that do not admit based on major and do not require students to declare a major until after sophomore year--why not just apply as an easy humanities major? I am assuming that like most applicants to these schools, the Verbal and Math sections of the SAT are both stellar. I am also assuming that the APs in high school were both STEM and Humanities.

So, why torture yourself?

Because STEM kids often want to do a lot of stem things in high school. Plus, the system works for the vast majority: true top unhooked stem kids can get into at least ONE ivy/T15 stem private (Stanford, MIT, JHU CMU Rice Northwestern Duke Chicago...)or at least one of UCB /GT /Michigan OOS. It really is not that hard for the true top ones. Most get into more than one among this vast group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You could do this, but you would have to get their kid to suppress their stem side in high school and not join the stem clubs, and instead spend their time working the humanities angle in extracurriculars. This only works if your kid is willing to do all that when they enjoy STEM a lot more. My kid has a near perfect verbal score and does well in history, English, etc. but there is no way they could pose like this for four years.

What do you mean? Pose for four years. in High school, or college?

[Anonymous]

Yes, this is a well-known strategy among private school kids, especially those using independent college counselors.

I have two STEM major kids and we are Asian Americans and I knew it was going to be an uphill battle, but I could not get them to do any extracurriculars that are related to a humanities major when their interests and strengths were entirely in STEM.

I also think that teaching kids to fake an interest in some subject that is not the kid's actual interest is not really something to be encouraged.

In the end, my kids did not get into HYPSM, but they did get into several T20 schools and I think they'll do fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You could do this, but you would have to get their kid to suppress their stem side in high school and not join the stem clubs, and instead spend their time working the humanities angle in extracurriculars. This only works if your kid is willing to do all that when they enjoy STEM a lot more. My kid has a near perfect verbal score and does well in history, English, etc. but there is no way they could pose like this for four years.

What do you mean? Pose for four years. in High school, or college?

In high school, which is what the OP suggested

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, this is a well-known strategy among private school kids, especially those using independent college counselors.

I have two STEM major kids and we are Asian Americans and I knew it was going to be an uphill battle, but I could not get them to do any extracurriculars that are related to a humanities major when their interests and strengths were entirely in STEM.

I also think that teaching kids to fake an interest in some subject that is not the kid's actual interest is not really something to be encouraged.

In the end, my kids did not get into HYPSM, but they did get into several T20 schools and I think they'll do fine.

I guess the process worked. The Ivies are liberal arts schools, so probably your child got into where they fit. That's good to hear!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, this is a well-known strategy among private school kids, especially those using independent college counselors.

I have two STEM major kids and we are Asian Americans and I knew it was going to be an uphill battle, but I could not get them to do any extracurriculars that are related to a humanities major when their interests and strengths were entirely in STEM.

I also think that teaching kids to fake an interest in some subject that is not the kid's actual interest is not really something to be encouraged.

In the end, my kids did not get into HYPSM, but they did get into several T20 schools and I think they'll do fine.

It’s not as easy as that, even with independent college advisors. The kids who are that pliable aren’t that passionate, and it will show. But if you are a bonafide smart humanities kid, especially a boy, I think the college admissions world is your oyster right now!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If some people believe that it is more difficult as a so-called "STEM" major to get into schools like Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc.--schools that do not admit based on major and do not require students to declare a major until after sophomore year--why not just apply as an easy humanities major? I am assuming that like most applicants to these schools, the Verbal and Math sections of the SAT are both stellar. I am also assuming that the APs in high school were both STEM and Humanities.

So, why torture yourself?

Because STEM kids often want to do a lot of stem things in high school. Plus, the system works for the vast majority: true top unhooked stem kids can get into at least ONE ivy/T15 stem private (Stanford, MIT, JHU CMU Rice Northwestern Duke Chicago...)or at least one of UCB /GT /Michigan OOS. It really is not that hard for the true top ones. Most get into more than one among this vast group.

I don't know if this is true. I know of a truly amazing top unhooked STEM kid at my kid's school who was going for chemical engineering. He was deferred and then rejected from Penn. Was waitlisted at Harvard, Cornell, UMich, GT, UCB and rejected from the other schools you listed. He is attending Univ. of Washington (in Seattle). He was not one-dimensional either - he was concermaster of the orchestra and also played Bass in a popular school band and was part of a group that won a STEM competition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Harvard and Yale are generally not where top STEM students go. But to your point, every admissions officer can tell what a student is likely to major in. Someone that has won poetry prizes and does theater is not likely to choose engineering. Someone that is president of the math club and has won science awards is not likely to be a gender studies major. And so on and so forth.

Selective schools have decades of data. They generally know what they are doing as they put together a broad and varied class. There really aren't a lot of humanities students trying to sneak into engineering or business.

Not always true. We know a kid who had his picking between Princeton, Stanford, Yale and Harvard and it came down to the later two.