Straight talk: give up chance of aid and improve admit chances?

[Anonymous]

This makes no sense. If OP came into enough money to pay for college, then they won't qualify for aid anyhow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This makes no sense. If OP came into enough money to pay for college, then they won't qualify for aid anyhow.

Maybe not at Princeton.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t matter at all at T10 schools.

Wrong.
It does in RD when balancing the class. It becomes math - when they need more “full tuition admits” (yes that’s what they call them).

YCBK alluded to it earlier this week.

Agree. Listen to the episode on class shaping and meeting budget

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Through a lucky circumstance, I am extremely fortunate enough to be able to fully pay for DC’s college for four years. But I would be very happy to keep that money towards retirement or an inheritance for DC. I don’t have so much that this is like loose change.

That said, DC wants to go to the absolute best school they can get into. DC is going to shoot their shot for the usual T10+ dream schools, though realizes “nobody gets in.” DC is an academic high-achiever but is unhooked.

I’m curious to hear from people how much it matters, and at which specific schools, whether DC’s application signals that they can pay for the whole thing. (I assume this is signaled by not filling out the FAFSA? Is there any other way this is signaled?) I imagine the applications are initially reviewed without reference to economics but then maybe a subsequent round of admissions review takes family finances into account? (Maybe a current or former AO, among others, can speak to this?)

Any input on this, whether based on what you’ve heard or direct personal experience, on this is greatly appreciated.

You're wrong on both sides of this equation: You won't qualify for meaningful aid, so there's nothing to give up -- and being full pay won't meaningfully improve admit chances.

If there's any way to improve admit chances, all thinsgs being equal, it's to apply early. But "academic high-achiever" doesn't begin to get anyone into those schools. Academic high-achiever gets you into UMD -- which is a great school! -- but not applying for FA will not move the needle at all at Harvard or Yale or Johns Hopkins or Duke.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Through a lucky circumstance, I am extremely fortunate enough to be able to fully pay for DC’s college for four years. But I would be very happy to keep that money towards retirement or an inheritance for DC. I don’t have so much that this is like loose change.

That said, DC wants to go to the absolute best school they can get into. DC is going to shoot their shot for the usual T10+ dream schools, though realizes “nobody gets in.” DC is an academic high-achiever but is unhooked.

I’m curious to hear from people how much it matters, and at which specific schools, whether DC’s application signals that they can pay for the whole thing. (I assume this is signaled by not filling out the FAFSA? Is there any other way this is signaled?) I imagine the applications are initially reviewed without reference to economics but then maybe a subsequent round of admissions review takes family finances into account? (Maybe a current or former AO, among others, can speak to this?)

Any input on this, whether based on what you’ve heard or direct personal experience, on this is greatly appreciated.

You're wrong on both sides of this equation: You won't qualify for meaningful aid, so there's nothing to give up -- and being full pay won't meaningfully improve admit chances.

If there's any way to improve admit chances, all thinsgs being equal, it's to apply early. But "academic high-achiever" doesn't begin to get anyone into those schools. Academic high-achiever gets you into UMD -- which is a great school! -- but not applying for FA will not move the needle at all at Harvard or Yale or Johns Hopkins or Duke.

If the kid is in the mix in ED, will applying for financial aid impact the kid during the class shaping portion of RD at HY, JHU or Duke?

Maybe? Maybe not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Through a lucky circumstance, I am extremely fortunate enough to be able to fully pay for DC’s college for four years. But I would be very happy to keep that money towards retirement or an inheritance for DC. I don’t have so much that this is like loose change.

That said, DC wants to go to the absolute best school they can get into. DC is going to shoot their shot for the usual T10+ dream schools, though realizes “nobody gets in.” DC is an academic high-achiever but is unhooked.

I’m curious to hear from people how much it matters, and at which specific schools, whether DC’s application signals that they can pay for the whole thing. (I assume this is signaled by not filling out the FAFSA? Is there any other way this is signaled?) I imagine the applications are initially reviewed without reference to economics but then maybe a subsequent round of admissions review takes family finances into account? (Maybe a current or former AO, among others, can speak to this?)

Any input on this, whether based on what you’ve heard or direct personal experience, on this is greatly appreciated.

You're wrong on both sides of this equation: You won't qualify for meaningful aid, so there's nothing to give up -- and being full pay won't meaningfully improve admit chances.

If there's any way to improve admit chances, all thinsgs being equal, it's to apply early. But "academic high-achiever" doesn't begin to get anyone into those schools. Academic high-achiever gets you into UMD -- which is a great school! -- but not applying for FA will not move the needle at all at Harvard or Yale or Johns Hopkins or Duke.

If the kid is in the mix in ED, will applying for financial aid impact the kid during the class shaping portion of RD at HY, JHU or Duke?

Maybe? Maybe not?

It will, every college has a budget even claiming 'need-blind', looking at percentage of financial aid and average aid, they are about same each year, that tells you they have a lid on aid. Financial aid officer should know but I guess no one would tell. On the other hand, 1% income kids are about 20% in top colleges consistently, that tells same story.

So, if you qualify some aid but not so significant, not applying it would improve your chance. If you need aid to be able to attend, then you have no choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:T10s are need-blind for admission. Admissions won't see your FAFSA. T10 financial aid will also require the CSS Profile, which will look at your assets.

Before applying for aid, see if you are eligible. Use individual college Net Price Calculators for estimates.

I really doubt any school, T10 or not, is 100% need blind, especially these days. Is it a lucky coincidence that year after year they have a large number of full pay families? Yeah, those families can afford tutors, private schools, etc. However, from the sheer number of applicants, there are enough those needing full aid who can clear the admissions bar and fill the class.

They literally have to give a preference to low income applicants to get enough of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:T10s are need-blind for admission. Admissions won't see your FAFSA. T10 financial aid will also require the CSS Profile, which will look at your assets.

Before applying for aid, see if you are eligible. Use individual college Net Price Calculators for estimates.

I really doubt any school, T10 or not, is 100% need blind, especially these days. Is it a lucky coincidence that year after year they have a large number of full pay families? Yeah, those families can afford tutors, private schools, etc. However, from the sheer number of applicants, there are enough those needing full aid who can clear the admissions bar and fill the class.

The need blind thing is a lie, IMO. I know of a situation first-hand where a student was accidentally cc'd on emails between an admissions officer and a finance officer that made it clear the student was admitted following their decision to uncheck the "will apply for aid" box that was originally checked. That was a private T20. Schools need to protect yield, they can't afford to admit students who have a high likelihood of rejecting the offer because of cost.

Unless you consider Northeastern or something like that to be top 20, a need blind school will not consider need in instances when it says it will not. They will sometimes consider need for international students or transfer students or waitlist students but if they way they are not considering need, they are not.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thanks for all the responses. I’m not planning to shelter the money in an off-shore account 😄 so since you’re all saying we won’t qualify for aid (very fair enough), I’ll skip filling out the FAFSA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:T10s are need-blind for admission. Admissions won't see your FAFSA. T10 financial aid will also require the CSS Profile, which will look at your assets.

Before applying for aid, see if you are eligible. Use individual college Net Price Calculators for estimates.

I really doubt any school, T10 or not, is 100% need blind, especially these days. Is it a lucky coincidence that year after year they have a large number of full pay families? Yeah, those families can afford tutors, private schools, etc. However, from the sheer number of applicants, there are enough those needing full aid who can clear the admissions bar and fill the class.

The need blind thing is a lie, IMO. I know of a situation first-hand where a student was accidentally cc'd on emails between an admissions officer and a finance officer that made it clear the student was admitted following their decision to uncheck the "will apply for aid" box that was originally checked. That was a private T20. Schools need to protect yield, they can't afford to admit students who have a high likelihood of rejecting the offer because of cost.

Unless you consider Northeastern or something like that to be top 20, a need blind school will not consider need in instances when it says it will not. They will sometimes consider need for international students or transfer students or waitlist students but if they way they are not considering need, they are not.

You have a naïve of a view of the admissions process. Have you sat in the room?

Do you know what happens to our list of admit candidates once class shaping comes around and why someone is dropped?

[Anonymous]

I have a close family who is head of financial
Aid at a top, need blind school.

Need blind at their school is indeed need blind. 100%. There is no interaction between the admissions and financial aid offices prior to decisions. That said, developmental (big donor) cases are different and the admissions committee can infer wealth (or lack there of) when looking at the rest of the application (parent jobs, home address, sending high school, extracurriculars etc)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a close family who is head of financial
Aid at a top, need blind school.

Need blind at their school is indeed need blind. 100%. There is no interaction between the admissions and financial aid offices prior to decisions. That said, developmental (big donor) cases are different and the admissions committee can infer wealth (or lack there of) when looking at the rest of the application (parent jobs, home address, sending high school, extracurriculars etc)

Everyone is talking past each other. Of course they will evaluate your application and decide to admit you without regard to “need”.

However, in regular decision, your application may be set aside in class shaping for financial reasons (similar to how it might be rejected or set aside because there are too many computer science majors or biology majors or psychology majors). It has nothing to do with the evaluation of your application. They just need a certain percentage of full pay students at that point.

In my view, that’s why if you know you will qualify for the need based aid and you have a top choice school, you’re better off applying early. Just run the NPC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you've saved enough to pay for 4 years, you won't get need based aid anyway. He'll still be eligible for merit aid, and if circumstances change after admission you can fill out the fafsa for sophomore year and maybe get loans for years 2-4.

This. You’re not eligible.

You don’t need FAFSA for merit we saw that firsthand.

Agreed. Our kid's ED school was need aware and aware that we did not need. Still gave generous merit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:T10s are need-blind for admission. Admissions won't see your FAFSA. T10 financial aid will also require the CSS Profile, which will look at your assets.

Before applying for aid, see if you are eligible. Use individual college Net Price Calculators for estimates.

I really doubt any school, T10 or not, is 100% need blind, especially these days. Is it a lucky coincidence that year after year they have a large number of full pay families? Yeah, those families can afford tutors, private schools, etc. However, from the sheer number of applicants, there are enough those needing full aid who can clear the admissions bar and fill the class.

The need blind thing is a lie, IMO. I know of a situation first-hand where a student was accidentally cc'd on emails between an admissions officer and a finance officer that made it clear the student was admitted following their decision to uncheck the "will apply for aid" box that was originally checked. That was a private T20. Schools need to protect yield, they can't afford to admit students who have a high likelihood of rejecting the offer because of cost.

Name the college. Why on earth would you care? You're not outing yourself. Name the college or I call bullshit.

Suit yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:T10s are need-blind for admission. Admissions won't see your FAFSA. T10 financial aid will also require the CSS Profile, which will look at your assets.

Before applying for aid, see if you are eligible. Use individual college Net Price Calculators for estimates.

I really doubt any school, T10 or not, is 100% need blind, especially these days. Is it a lucky coincidence that year after year they have a large number of full pay families? Yeah, those families can afford tutors, private schools, etc. However, from the sheer number of applicants, there are enough those needing full aid who can clear the admissions bar and fill the class.

The need blind thing is a lie, IMO. I know of a situation first-hand where a student was accidentally cc'd on emails between an admissions officer and a finance officer that made it clear the student was admitted following their decision to uncheck the "will apply for aid" box that was originally checked. That was a private T20. Schools need to protect yield, they can't afford to admit students who have a high likelihood of rejecting the offer because of cost.

More like a white lie. Instead of need blind, those schools' AO wear 'blinders' from which they can from time to time peek to make sure they don't blew all their FA budget