Straight talk: give up chance of aid and improve admit chances?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the top tier, IT DOES NOT MATTER. They want the best students, regardless of whether those students can pay their way. Unless you're a development family, in which case you donate at least 10M and schmooze a board member or two.

Money might start to matter a bit for the second tier, but it's when you get to the third tier that it really makes a difference.

This sounds very naive. Of course they want the best students, but they have more "best students" to choose from than they have spots. They will make a list of 10 "best students" and then take the 5 who are full pay.

PP you replied to. We're full pay, so this is not wishful thinking on our part, but I really do believe that the top tier picks for fit, not money. The wealthy have access to the best education and the best private college counselors. Of course there is a preponderance of rich and poor at these schools. The middle class has a hard time getting in, on the other hand, all other things being equal.

[Anonymous]

You seem to be laboring under a misunderstanding, OP.

If you have the money to pay for college, colleges will worm it out of you. Period. YOU don't get to decide whether to hold it in reserve for another purpose.

Or are you telling us you're using shady financials to hide your money from colleges?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For princeton this year it least it would have been better to qualify for full aid.

Not just Princeton. Most of the T25 is shooting for at least 20 percent first gen and 20 percent Pell eligible. The tippy top schools want to be able to say more than half the class is getting aid. DCUM remains convinced Johnny didn’t get in because someone else was full pay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Through a lucky circumstance, I am extremely fortunate enough to be able to fully pay for DC’s college for four years. But I would be very happy to keep that money towards retirement or an inheritance for DC. I don’t have so much that this is like loose change.

That said, DC wants to go to the absolute best school they can get into. DC is going to shoot their shot for the usual T10+ dream schools, though realizes “nobody gets in.” DC is an academic high-achiever but is unhooked.

I’m curious to hear from people how much it matters, and at which specific schools, whether DC’s application signals that they can pay for the whole thing. (I assume this is signaled by not filling out the FAFSA? Is there any other way this is signaled?) I imagine the applications are initially reviewed without reference to economics but then maybe a subsequent round of admissions review takes family finances into account? (Maybe a current or former AO, among others, can speak to this?)

Any input on this, whether based on what you’ve heard or direct personal experience, on this is greatly appreciated.

It seems like it’s more important to NOT go to a terrible school than TO go to a great school. So if the kid ends up at Indiana U or U of Tennessee, that’s fine. They can get in any grad school from solid universities like those.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For princeton this year it least it would have been better to qualify for full aid.

Not just Princeton. Most of the T25 is shooting for at least 20 percent first gen and 20 percent Pell eligible. The tippy top schools want to be able to say more than half the class is getting aid. DCUM remains convinced Johnny didn’t get in because someone else was full pay.

PP here. I don’t think we are saying that. What we are saying is that all other things being equal, full pay puts a thumb on the scale. Why wouldn’t it? They are running a business.

If top schools did not need money/full pay, they could just make tuition free for everyone. They haven’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:T10s are need-blind for admission. Admissions won't see your FAFSA. T10 financial aid will also require the CSS Profile, which will look at your assets.

Before applying for aid, see if you are eligible. Use individual college Net Price Calculators for estimates.

I really doubt any school, T10 or not, is 100% need blind, especially these days. Is it a lucky coincidence that year after year they have a large number of full pay families? Yeah, those families can afford tutors, private schools, etc. However, from the sheer number of applicants, there are enough those needing full aid who can clear the admissions bar and fill the class.

The need blind thing is a lie, IMO. I know of a situation first-hand where a student was accidentally cc'd on emails between an admissions officer and a finance officer that made it clear the student was admitted following their decision to uncheck the "will apply for aid" box that was originally checked. That was a private T20. Schools need to protect yield, they can't afford to admit students who have a high likelihood of rejecting the offer because of cost.

Agree. In this world very good people do all sorts of underhanded things to keep their jobs & ensure their employer stays in business. Priests, CIA analysts, & nuclear weapons scientists all spill the beans on a regular basis. Yet some people want us to believe that 25-year-old college bureaucrats making $35k are immune from cutting corners on “need blind.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t matter at all at T10 schools.

Wrong.
It does in RD when balancing the class. It becomes math - when they need more “full tuition admits” (yes that’s what they call them).

YCBK alluded to it earlier this week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don’t complete the FAFSA that’s the signal.

💯
Esp if it’s only a wishful completion anyway. Where you’re hoping for 10k off or something.
Don’t do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you've saved enough to pay for 4 years, you won't get need based aid anyway. He'll still be eligible for merit aid, and if circumstances change after admission you can fill out the fafsa for sophomore year and maybe get loans for years 2-4.

This. You’re not eligible.

You don’t need FAFSA for merit we saw that firsthand.

[Anonymous]

can you apply in subsequent years?

[Anonymous]

Full pay signals on the app:

Essays that read like they were written with assistance by a consultant

Professions and education of the applicant’s parents

Expensive ECs

Zip Code of the applicant

Elite private or public school

All read in context

[Anonymous]

Respectfully, posts like this make my blood boil. The top colleges in this country don't select students like a private high school does. You don't get a leg up if you signal that you're full pay. You can't buy your way into a top college unless you buy it a building or something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:T10s are need-blind for admission. Admissions won't see your FAFSA. T10 financial aid will also require the CSS Profile, which will look at your assets.

Before applying for aid, see if you are eligible. Use individual college Net Price Calculators for estimates.

I really doubt any school, T10 or not, is 100% need blind, especially these days. Is it a lucky coincidence that year after year they have a large number of full pay families? Yeah, those families can afford tutors, private schools, etc. However, from the sheer number of applicants, there are enough those needing full aid who can clear the admissions bar and fill the class.

The need blind thing is a lie, IMO. I know of a situation first-hand where a student was accidentally cc'd on emails between an admissions officer and a finance officer that made it clear the student was admitted following their decision to uncheck the "will apply for aid" box that was originally checked. That was a private T20. Schools need to protect yield, they can't afford to admit students who have a high likelihood of rejecting the offer because of cost.

Name the college. Why on earth would you care? You're not outing yourself. Name the college or I call bullshit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Respectfully, posts like this make my blood boil. The top colleges in this country don't select students like a private high school does. You don't get a leg up if you signal that you're full pay. You can't buy your way into a top college unless you buy it a building or something.

Wish you were right… as I said before, if they did not care about tuition revenue, they would just make it free for everyone. Since they haven’t, they clearly do care about revenue and full / partial/ low pay are treated differently given applicants that are similar otherwise.

Sure, a kid who cured cancer, was on a national team, etc. will get in regardless of the pay situation. But when looking at shaping the class and everyone is a typical applicant that clears the bar, then what? It’s not like every accepted kid is super unique. What do you think separates them then?

[Anonymous]

The northeast is chock full of families who are full pay. Even schools like BU and Lehigh can fill their classes with high achieving full pay kids. It’s really great that you have college covered but it’s not going to set you apart.