Unpopular opinion: young children should be taught what to think

[Anonymous]

I'm moderate but probably leaning conservative. I would love to enroll my kids in a very strict classroom. My oldest is a rule follower and she struggles daily with chaos in the classroom. We've had so many conversations about how you can't control other people and she can needs to stop thinking about what others do. My middle child is doing okay in the chaos classrooms.

I'm hyper organized and it's served me well in life. I still remember how much I loved my 4th grade teacher. She was into color coded folders and rote memorization. (my kids don't even have folders and just chuck everything into their backpack.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Education is run by progressive liberals who don't understand the consequences of their soft teaching.

We need to be focused on educating our kids with math and reading. And discipline, consequences. For all kids. We are too focused on feelings, making kids feel good.

As the saying goes, the worst preparation of adulthood is a stress free childhood.

How can we get back to actually educating our children as a society? I don’t mean a return to rapping kids with rulers, just telling kids they are WRONG when they say 2+2 =5 or spell “said” as “sed.” Right now they are complimented on their thinking and creativity and asked how they got there and to please show everyone else how they did it. No! Don’t teach 20 kids the wrong way! Tell the 1 kid that he is wrong and here is the correct answer.

If you volunteered in an actual classroom, you would see that teachers do that. But you want to invent a world in which schools somehow don't teach kids, when in reality, they very much do.

It's clear you have an agenda and are not basing your rants in reality.

My rants on based on volunteering a lot more over and actually seeing what’s happening at school. I was oblivious and assumed school was great in kindergarten.

You seem to have a catastrophizing mindset. Are you one of these people who think in black and white? If it's not great, it's terrible? Because that's how you're coming across. No, schools are never great. They cannot be great, since they're a collective effort. But it doesn't mean they're terrible either.

I do not particularly love the way public elementaries run their classrooms in my area... but my kids attend or attended these public schools, and I, as the parent, make sure they know what I think they should know. It works out. My oldest's first grade class had 31 kids and the teacher was completely overwhelmed. Kids were yelling and throwing paper planes. I thought no learning was actually happening. Fast forward to now, he's in college and is doing well. He was always a bookworm, like all of us in the family, and he's well-read, polite and took 12 APs in high school, including Latin. My second kid will take 14 APs and has won writing awards. I have volunteered extensively at all my children's schools: I don't think I've seen anything as bad as that first grade class

Plenty of kids do well in public schools, because their families figure it out. If you want, you can teach your children yourself, find a private that will fit your idea of what a classroom should like (newsflash - a lot of them behave like public schools!), or hire tutors for your children. So instead of whining, find solutions that work for you.

No, I don't expect them to be great, but I expect a well-funded, well-resourced, MC/UMC elementary school to be not terrible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I taught my kids to read, write and do math at home, OP. Mostly over the summer, every year, and a little bit during the school year. I assigned classic children's lit for them to read.

Private school wasn't for us because one of my kids has special needs and really benefited from the accommodations public school could provide, and my other was able to get gifted services. This is why I will never hate MCPS. They do something for the kids at the extremes. I just filled in whatever school did not teach that I wanted my kids to know. I do not expect any school to parent my child. A parent is a child's main teacher.

I do all that and feel we are just barely treading water, alone. I would love to go back to the days of doing 15 minutes of homework per night and then having them spend the rest of the time just playing. Having to supplement cuts into that time. Not to mention having to learn half a year’s worth of material over what should be true summer vacation just swimming, looking at bugs, and playing in trees

I don't mind spending an hour a night on reading and interesting math (not drills, but math puzzles and logic games, or even board games like making them be the banker in monopoly). It's bonding time. I am trying to teach my kids to love learning for the sake of learning. We can do it in addition to everything you listed.

I don't think school is entirely a waste of time, but I also don't think it's enough. One teacher with 20 or more kids can't possibly give my child the attention I can give them one on one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For what it’s worth I’m extremely liberal. Like way out in left field liberal/leftist.

And I agree with you.

You do realize that the political spectrum isn't shaped like a line, it's shaped like a horseshoe. The super duper right wingers who homeschool and don't like science interfering with their religious teachings and believe very strongly in individual rights over societal/communal rules- like no restrictions on guns, no vaccine mandates, no taxes, etc- have a LOT in common with the super duper left wingers who homeschool and don't like science interfering with their crunchy essential oils and holistic supplements and breast milk baths, and believe very strongly in individual writes over societal communal rules- like freedom to choose your own gender and wear what you like in public and no vaccine mandates and no funding to military or police.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Education is run by progressive liberals who don't understand the consequences of their soft teaching.

We need to be focused on educating our kids with math and reading. And discipline, consequences. For all kids. We are too focused on feelings, making kids feel good.

As the saying goes, the worst preparation of adulthood is a stress free childhood.

How can we get back to actually educating our children as a society? I don’t mean a return to rapping kids with rulers, just telling kids they are WRONG when they say 2+2 =5 or spell “said” as “sed.” Right now they are complimented on their thinking and creativity and asked how they got there and to please show everyone else how they did it. No! Don’t teach 20 kids the wrong way! Tell the 1 kid that he is wrong and here is the correct answer.

If you volunteered in an actual classroom, you would see that teachers do that. But you want to invent a world in which schools somehow don't teach kids, when in reality, they very much do.

It's clear you have an agenda and are not basing your rants in reality.

My rants on based on volunteering a lot more over and actually seeing what’s happening at school. I was oblivious and assumed school was great in kindergarten.

You seem to have a catastrophizing mindset. Are you one of these people who think in black and white? If it's not great, it's terrible? Because that's how you're coming across. No, schools are never great. They cannot be great, since they're a collective effort. But it doesn't mean they're terrible either.

I do not particularly love the way public elementaries run their classrooms in my area... but my kids attend or attended these public schools, and I, as the parent, make sure they know what I think they should know. It works out. My oldest's first grade class had 31 kids and the teacher was completely overwhelmed. Kids were yelling and throwing paper planes. I thought no learning was actually happening. Fast forward to now, he's in college and is doing well. He was always a bookworm, like all of us in the family, and he's well-read, polite and took 12 APs in high school, including Latin. My second kid will take 14 APs and has won writing awards. I have volunteered extensively at all my children's schools: I don't think I've seen anything as bad as that first grade class

Plenty of kids do well in public schools, because their families figure it out. If you want, you can teach your children yourself, find a private that will fit your idea of what a classroom should like (newsflash - a lot of them behave like public schools!), or hire tutors for your children. So instead of whining, find solutions that work for you.

If your kid is in college now and you don't work in public schools, you have no idea what we are talking about in this thread.

[Anonymous]

Honestly I did not have such strict education as a first grader back in the 80s in private school. My current first grader and 6th grader are learning more than what was covered back then. My first grader does get spelling quizzes and correction in FCPS. However breaks are appropriate and playtime is needed for early elementary school. I remember my 1st and 2nd grades as still having a decent amount of play type experiences in the 80s.

[Anonymous]

Nothing about the current school landscape is based in child development or neurobiology. None of it.
Not the flourescent lights, lack of outdoor space, constant stimulation, lack of exercise or movement breaks, allowing minority rule over the classroom, etc.
Not enough staff, too many kids per classroom, not divided according to where they are in the learning module, too many special education students (Yes there are too many. Our county's budget for SPED is 148 million), computer access, stupid Iready, etc.

It chaos and the kids who follow the rules learn that following the rules doesnt matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly I did not have such strict education as a first grader back in the 80s in private school. My current first grader and 6th grader are learning more than what was covered back then. My first grader does get spelling quizzes and correction in FCPS. However breaks are appropriate and playtime is needed for early elementary school. I remember my 1st and 2nd grades as still having a decent amount of play type experiences in the 80s.

I am not advocating for anything crazy. Just some basics. I think we need more free play AND more fundamentals learning. I think we can do that if we stop this "Well let's think and tell me how you got to 2+2 = 5! Let's think about our thinking!" and just said, "No, 2+2=4. Let's look at this picture showing groupings" and then have all the kids memorize. The kids would have a lot more time to learn and more time to have recess, or science lab, or...?

Same with multiplications tables. You can introduce concepts and word problems and different ways of thinking, sure. But then have the kids drill and memorize. Have them take multiplication quizzes until they get it. Give them a sheet of math problems to complete each week, heck even twice a week. They need to do this so that they can tackle later math.

[Anonymous]

My kids did learn things in public school, with support at home.

But they learn a lot more in a private school that's relatively old school.

Personally I subscribe to the Dorothy Sayers model of education: stuff elementary brains with facts, teach middle school brains logic, then teach high schoolers and college kids how to present their theoretically well reasoned articles based on facts.

For that, of course, we have to agree on what constitutes a fact. And good luck in a school where the will of the majority determines whose in charge and we're so polarized these days.

[Anonymous]

I’m not afraid to take a stand

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Education is run by progressive liberals who don't understand the consequences of their soft teaching.

We need to be focused on educating our kids with math and reading. And discipline, consequences. For all kids. We are too focused on feelings, making kids feel good.

As the saying goes, the worst preparation of adulthood is a stress free childhood.

How can we get back to actually educating our children as a society? I don’t mean a return to rapping kids with rulers, just telling kids they are WRONG when they say 2+2 =5 or spell “said” as “sed.” Right now they are complimented on their thinking and creativity and asked how they got there and to please show everyone else how they did it. No! Don’t teach 20 kids the wrong way! Tell the 1 kid that he is wrong and here is the correct answer.

If you volunteered in an actual classroom, you would see that teachers do that. But you want to invent a world in which schools somehow don't teach kids, when in reality, they very much do.

It's clear you have an agenda and are not basing your rants in reality.

My rants on based on volunteering a lot more over and actually seeing what’s happening at school. I was oblivious and assumed school was great in kindergarten.

You seem to have a catastrophizing mindset. Are you one of these people who think in black and white? If it's not great, it's terrible? Because that's how you're coming across. No, schools are never great. They cannot be great, since they're a collective effort. But it doesn't mean they're terrible either.

I do not particularly love the way public elementaries run their classrooms in my area... but my kids attend or attended these public schools, and I, as the parent, make sure they know what I think they should know. It works out. My oldest's first grade class had 31 kids and the teacher was completely overwhelmed. Kids were yelling and throwing paper planes. I thought no learning was actually happening. Fast forward to now, he's in college and is doing well. He was always a bookworm, like all of us in the family, and he's well-read, polite and took 12 APs in high school, including Latin. My second kid will take 14 APs and has won writing awards. I have volunteered extensively at all my children's schools: I don't think I've seen anything as bad as that first grade class

Plenty of kids do well in public schools, because their families figure it out. If you want, you can teach your children yourself, find a private that will fit your idea of what a classroom should like (newsflash - a lot of them behave like public schools!), or hire tutors for your children. So instead of whining, find solutions that work for you.

If your kid is in college now and you don't work in public schools, you have no idea what we are talking about in this thread.

PP you replied to. The principal and staff of my kids' elementary is still the same and there has been little turnover. I have several kids and volunteered extensively for all of them, so no, I disagree that I don't know what's going on. But it's a no-win situation: if you don't have older kids who have experienced all the system, you are told that you need perspective and that it actually does work out in the end, provided you stay vigilant and hire tutors if necessary. If you have older kids, with proof that they turned out well, you are told that schools have changed so much that your lived experience cannot possibly be valuable to the present circumstances. This is of course, wrong.

Please do not discount the experience of others who have gone before you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Education is run by progressive liberals who don't understand the consequences of their soft teaching.

We need to be focused on educating our kids with math and reading. And discipline, consequences. For all kids. We are too focused on feelings, making kids feel good.

As the saying goes, the worst preparation of adulthood is a stress free childhood.

How can we get back to actually educating our children as a society? I don’t mean a return to rapping kids with rulers, just telling kids they are WRONG when they say 2+2 =5 or spell “said” as “sed.” Right now they are complimented on their thinking and creativity and asked how they got there and to please show everyone else how they did it. No! Don’t teach 20 kids the wrong way! Tell the 1 kid that he is wrong and here is the correct answer.

If you volunteered in an actual classroom, you would see that teachers do that. But you want to invent a world in which schools somehow don't teach kids, when in reality, they very much do.

It's clear you have an agenda and are not basing your rants in reality.

My rants on based on volunteering a lot more over and actually seeing what’s happening at school. I was oblivious and assumed school was great in kindergarten.

You seem to have a catastrophizing mindset. Are you one of these people who think in black and white? If it's not great, it's terrible? Because that's how you're coming across. No, schools are never great. They cannot be great, since they're a collective effort. But it doesn't mean they're terrible either.

I do not particularly love the way public elementaries run their classrooms in my area... but my kids attend or attended these public schools, and I, as the parent, make sure they know what I think they should know. It works out. My oldest's first grade class had 31 kids and the teacher was completely overwhelmed. Kids were yelling and throwing paper planes. I thought no learning was actually happening. Fast forward to now, he's in college and is doing well. He was always a bookworm, like all of us in the family, and he's well-read, polite and took 12 APs in high school, including Latin. My second kid will take 14 APs and has won writing awards. I have volunteered extensively at all my children's schools: I don't think I've seen anything as bad as that first grade class

Plenty of kids do well in public schools, because their families figure it out. If you want, you can teach your children yourself, find a private that will fit your idea of what a classroom should like (newsflash - a lot of them behave like public schools!), or hire tutors for your children. So instead of whining, find solutions that work for you.

If your kid is in college now and you don't work in public schools, you have no idea what we are talking about in this thread.

PP you replied to. The principal and staff of my kids' elementary is still the same and there has been little turnover. I have several kids and volunteered extensively for all of them, so no, I disagree that I don't know what's going on. But it's a no-win situation: if you don't have older kids who have experienced all the system, you are told that you need perspective and that it actually does work out in the end, provided you stay vigilant and hire tutors if necessary. If you have older kids, with proof that they turned out well, you are told that schools have changed so much that your lived experience cannot possibly be valuable to the present circumstances. This is of course, wrong.

Please do not discount the experience of others who have gone before you.

It’s just basic math. EdTech was widely rolled out in 2015-2016. Your current college student was not handed an iPad when he was in kindergarten.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Education is run by progressive liberals who don't understand the consequences of their soft teaching.

We need to be focused on educating our kids with math and reading. And discipline, consequences. For all kids. We are too focused on feelings, making kids feel good.

As the saying goes, the worst preparation of adulthood is a stress free childhood.

How can we get back to actually educating our children as a society? I don’t mean a return to rapping kids with rulers, just telling kids they are WRONG when they say 2+2 =5 or spell “said” as “sed.” Right now they are complimented on their thinking and creativity and asked how they got there and to please show everyone else how they did it. No! Don’t teach 20 kids the wrong way! Tell the 1 kid that he is wrong and here is the correct answer.

If you volunteered in an actual classroom, you would see that teachers do that. But you want to invent a world in which schools somehow don't teach kids, when in reality, they very much do.

It's clear you have an agenda and are not basing your rants in reality.

My rants on based on volunteering a lot more over and actually seeing what’s happening at school. I was oblivious and assumed school was great in kindergarten.

You seem to have a catastrophizing mindset. Are you one of these people who think in black and white? If it's not great, it's terrible? Because that's how you're coming across. No, schools are never great. They cannot be great, since they're a collective effort. But it doesn't mean they're terrible either.

I do not particularly love the way public elementaries run their classrooms in my area... but my kids attend or attended these public schools, and I, as the parent, make sure they know what I think they should know. It works out. My oldest's first grade class had 31 kids and the teacher was completely overwhelmed. Kids were yelling and throwing paper planes. I thought no learning was actually happening. Fast forward to now, he's in college and is doing well. He was always a bookworm, like all of us in the family, and he's well-read, polite and took 12 APs in high school, including Latin. My second kid will take 14 APs and has won writing awards. I have volunteered extensively at all my children's schools: I don't think I've seen anything as bad as that first grade class

Plenty of kids do well in public schools, because their families figure it out. If you want, you can teach your children yourself, find a private that will fit your idea of what a classroom should like (newsflash - a lot of them behave like public schools!), or hire tutors for your children. So instead of whining, find solutions that work for you.

If your kid is in college now and you don't work in public schools, you have no idea what we are talking about in this thread.

PP you replied to. The principal and staff of my kids' elementary is still the same and there has been little turnover. I have several kids and volunteered extensively for all of them, so no, I disagree that I don't know what's going on. But it's a no-win situation: if you don't have older kids who have experienced all the system, you are told that you need perspective and that it actually does work out in the end, provided you stay vigilant and hire tutors if necessary. If you have older kids, with proof that they turned out well, you are told that schools have changed so much that your lived experience cannot possibly be valuable to the present circumstances. This is of course, wrong.

Please do not discount the experience of others who have gone before you.

It’s just basic math. EdTech was widely rolled out in 2015-2016. Your current college student was not handed an iPad when he was in kindergarten.

But my youngest was (in first grade). And now she's a high achiever in 10th grade.
Again. Do not dismiss the experience of older students.

Also, I want to tell this Fresh Lot of Complainers:

When my oldest was about 4, and I discovered DCUM, there was this exact same thread!!!
MCPS is not what it used to be. MCPS is going down the drain. It's public school, but I paid a ton for my house in an expensive neighborhood so I expect better.
My son did a few years in an MCPS elementary and a private elementary (where we saw all primary years are essentially wasted from an intellectual point of view), and then secondary school was all MCPS.
Now he is 21, extremely well-read and altogether rather over-educated.
And EVERY year on this board, there has been this exact same thread!

I am sure that this has been the case ever since group education was invented

Do not think your kids have it harder than previous kids who came before them, at any moment in the history of humankind, regardless of which technology is in the classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let me start by saying I am politically liberal to moderate. Truth be told I’m a kind of crunchy woo woo mom who bakes her own bran muffins and who doesn’t allow screen time at home except to watch movies like Sound of Music. No video games. No toy guns.

But public school is too liberal and lenient for me. My son is at an UMC public elementary and I think it’s absolute BS. They do whatever they want and FEEL. You disrupted class? Go take a walk and grab a snack with the resource person! Now that you kids have all clicked through this BS TPT worksheet on the iPad, you get FREE CHOICE and can either read a book OR play games on the iPad (Hmmm which one will a 6 year old pick?). Oh we did some HARD WORK. Let’s take a brain break and watch Mario and Luigi dance on the projector for 5 minutes.
Ok, now choose which book you want to read. We are goi mg to write! Wrote about anything that you think of while you read? What questions do you have? Let’s think about thinking and fill up this book with post its of random BS questions! Next let’s do some writing workshop - trade notebooks and see what you think! Don’t worry about spelling. We just want to encourage writing and be kind! (Note - this would be considered a highly productive day. I don’t even think they do this all one a day.)

I think there should be consequences and kids need to know it’s not ok to disrupt 20 other students. You don’t get a snack as a reward!You might have questions about a book, great, but why don’t we first talk about setting, plot, characters? Why doesn’t the teacher TELL the kids what to look for and read for and notice? And any written work should be read and marked up the teacher. The teacher should mark spelling without worrying about hurt feelings.

Am I alone here? Is home school all that is open to me? I can’t afford 60k for private school, and based on some posts I read here they may not even be any better. Please tell me it magically gets better later. 5th grade? 8th grade?

Yeah. Since you obviously know it all and you don’t want your kid to be negatively affected by the behavior of others, I am thinking you should do the rest of us a favor a home school your precious.

+1 to homeschool. OP does know best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly I did not have such strict education as a first grader back in the 80s in private school. My current first grader and 6th grader are learning more than what was covered back then. My first grader does get spelling quizzes and correction in FCPS. However breaks are appropriate and playtime is needed for early elementary school. I remember my 1st and 2nd grades as still having a decent amount of play type experiences in the 80s.

I am not advocating for anything crazy. Just some basics. I think we need more free play AND more fundamentals learning. I think we can do that if we stop this "Well let's think and tell me how you got to 2+2 = 5! Let's think about our thinking!" and just said, "No, 2+2=4. Let's look at this picture showing groupings" and then have all the kids memorize. The kids would have a lot more time to learn and more time to have recess, or science lab, or...?

Same with multiplications tables. You can introduce concepts and word problems and different ways of thinking, sure. But then have the kids drill and memorize. Have them take multiplication quizzes until they get it. Give them a sheet of math problems to complete each week, heck even twice a week. They need to do this so that they can tackle later math.

I don't get the complaining. My kid DID do more rote memorization for multiplication tables - Mathagon every day, was a requirement of their class in third grade. It is still done.