What separates the people who get into the service academies from everyone else?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The biggest piece of it is the knowledge that it exists and may be a good fit, and having the adults around you support that goal. No one ever brought this up when I was growing up/at my HS.

You just didn't know. If you have kids, you get to consider it for them, or their friends!

I literally was close to a Naval Academy grad and former helicopter pilot when I was in 8th grade. Still never made the effort to do the work needed to get in

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are not top students. Average SAT is relatively low.
Also the physical test is not that hard that most of the average athlete should be able to pass.

You have no idea what you're talking about. The physical tests (plural!) are very challenging. For the Naval Academy last year, even recruits scoring in the top group of the physical tests weren't guaranteed admission.

I know one female who scored in the top 5% overall who was waitlisted and got in over the Summer. She was an excellent student and serious athlete who was in the top group for all the physical tests. The academies are elite.

They are not top students. Average SAT is relatively low.
Also the physical test is not that hard that most of the average athlete should be able to pass.

It's not a simple pass/fail. Where you rank in the physical tests matters. This isn't like going down to your local enlistment office and just meeting minimum requirements.

But just keep making up stuff to denigrate the academies, loser.

West Point uses a formula to rank candidates. Generally, the breakdown is roughly:

60% Academic: GPA, Class Rank, and SAT/ACT scores.
30% Leadership: Extracurriculars, teacher evaluations, and the Congressional Nomination.
10% Physical: The CFA score.

Nothing really much different from regular colleges.
Their test scores are relatively lower than competitive colleges.

Stop fabricating.

[Anonymous]

They're built a little differently. The desire to serve (and maturity to understand that you won't get to choose your path) and a love of discipline and rigor.

[Anonymous]

There is a small subset of people who are very good athletes, have good grades and want to be in the military.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are not top students. Average SAT is relatively low.
Also the physical test is not that hard that most of the average athlete should be able to pass.

You have no idea what you're talking about. The physical tests (plural!) are very challenging. For the Naval Academy last year, even recruits scoring in the top group of the physical tests weren't guaranteed admission.

I know one female who scored in the top 5% overall who was waitlisted and got in over the Summer. She was an excellent student and serious athlete who was in the top group for all the physical tests. The academies are elite.

Does your ranking on the physical tests actually factor into admission, or is it just you have to meet the minimum threshold...so it's really just bragging rights?

Theoretically scores on the physical tests actually factor into admission, however the whole physical test itself only account for about 10%.

Just like regular competitive schools, academics (Test + GPA) are most important then leadership, varsity sports, etc.

[Anonymous]

I understand the appeal of the service academies much more than the appeal of ROTC at a civilian university.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The military doesn't want the absolute smartest people. They want people good at following orders, not people who are Big Thinkers.

Disagree. Military likes to hire from the Ivys. They hired my sister from Wharton and several other classmates of hers.

Those that graduated from the service academies have more cache than those who graduated from the Ivys.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am 24 now, so I am too old. But I wish I knew about the service academies when I was young. It blows my mind so many people in them were top students and top athletes in school. Many people can’t even pass tryouts for JV sports teams here let alone be a varsity captain, and many top athletes aren’t great academically. I personally find it more impressive if someone goes to a service academy versus an Ivy League. How do people get into them? Are they just built differently?

They are much easier to get into in terms of stats (GPA and SAT) than the top 30-ish schools these days. But leadership, ECs are important, as well as some unique hoops you need to go through. My nephew got into naval academy. He did not have a straight A average (I think his GPA was around 3.7) but had an upward trajectory. His SAT was good, maybe in 1400s. He was an Eagle Scout and did varsity sports, but was not a captain. He did do the summer experience before senior year (3-week thing?) for interested potential midshipmen. It had bootcamp elements which he was fine with. He also had to get his Senator's character recommendation, which was a brief interview with someone in that office. Finally, he had to pass a medical exam which can derail the whole thing and did unexpectedly for a friend of his. He didn't get into any hyper selective private universities in contrast. He did get into a few strong public (in-state and out of state). But naval was his dream and he is majoring in engineering.

I do worry about what this administration has done to leadership at the academies. A lot of well-respected and competent leaders were fired for no reason to put in loyalists, and there may be long-term impacts to the culture. My sister (his mom) is definitely concerned about that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I understand the appeal of the service academies much more than the appeal of ROTC at a civilian university.

We know a guy who went ROTC after he got his girlfriend (now wife) pregnant to pay the bills. He also played Division I football and has two Rose Bowl rings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are not top students. Average SAT is relatively low.
Also the physical test is not that hard that most of the average athlete should be able to pass.

You have no idea what you're talking about. The physical tests (plural!) are very challenging. For the Naval Academy last year, even recruits scoring in the top group of the physical tests weren't guaranteed admission.

I know one female who scored in the top 5% overall who was waitlisted and got in over the Summer. She was an excellent student and serious athlete who was in the top group for all the physical tests. The academies are elite.

My good friend has two kids at usna. I know what I am talking about. The dad is a usna grad as is grandpa. The two kids took the physical test (I call it singular but it is a battery of things) many, many times before the gym teacher signed off on a pass. Neither was a stellar student or test taker BUT they did was to go usna almost their whole lives, largely influenced by being a big navy family.

No one said everyone gets in…but the seemingly low acceptance rate is bc lots of kids don’t complete the requirements, don’t pass the physical requirements (test), don’t pass medical requirements…but it is NOT bc they only have those with stellar stats. That is absolutely not true.

I literally posted the usna link on average sat. Do you think that is an elite sat/act score? It’s ok but not the top by any means.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am 24 now, so I am too old. But I wish I knew about the service academies when I was young. It blows my mind so many people in them were top students and top athletes in school. Many people can’t even pass tryouts for JV sports teams here let alone be a varsity captain, and many top athletes aren’t great academically. I personally find it more impressive if someone goes to a service academy versus an Ivy League. How do people get into them? Are they just built differently?

They are much easier to get into in terms of stats (GPA and SAT) than the top 30-ish schools these days. But leadership, ECs are important, as well as some unique hoops you need to go through. My nephew got into naval academy. He did not have a straight A average (I think his GPA was around 3.7) but had an upward trajectory. His SAT was good, maybe in 1400s. He was an Eagle Scout and did varsity sports, but was not a captain. He did do the summer experience before senior year (3-week thing?) for interested potential midshipmen. It had bootcamp elements which he was fine with. He also had to get his Senator's character recommendation, which was a brief interview with someone in that office. Finally, he had to pass a medical exam which can derail the whole thing and did unexpectedly for a friend of his. He didn't get into any hyper selective private universities in contrast. He did get into a few strong public (in-state and out of state). But naval was his dream and he is majoring in engineering.

I do worry about what this administration has done to leadership at the academies. A lot of well-respected and competent leaders were fired for no reason to put in loyalists, and there may be long-term impacts to the culture. My sister (his mom) is definitely concerned about that.

I have to believe that what is currently happening in this country does affect the service academies. They have become much more politicized with this administration unfortunately and the cadets are going to have to be fine with operating in that environment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are not top students. Average SAT is relatively low.
Also the physical test is not that hard that most of the average athlete should be able to pass.

You have no idea what you're talking about. The physical tests (plural!) are very challenging. For the Naval Academy last year, even recruits scoring in the top group of the physical tests weren't guaranteed admission.

I know one female who scored in the top 5% overall who was waitlisted and got in over the Summer. She was an excellent student and serious athlete who was in the top group for all the physical tests. The academies are elite.

They are not top students. Average SAT is relatively low.
Also the physical test is not that hard that most of the average athlete should be able to pass.

"Low" relative to what, Ivies?

As someone else said, have to be healthy, and not just currently healthy, as they also look at medical history. Several conditions may take the applicant out of the running if they can't secure a waiver. Also, I don't think you can be taking any prescription meds, either, including for ADHD, psych meds, etc. Standardized tests mandatory and without the accommodation of extra time, if I'm not mistaken.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are not top students. Average SAT is relatively low.
Also the physical test is not that hard that most of the average athlete should be able to pass.

You have no idea what you're talking about. The physical tests (plural!) are very challenging. For the Naval Academy last year, even recruits scoring in the top group of the physical tests weren't guaranteed admission.

I know one female who scored in the top 5% overall who was waitlisted and got in over the Summer. She was an excellent student and serious athlete who was in the top group for all the physical tests. The academies are elite.

They are not top students. Average SAT is relatively low.
Also the physical test is not that hard that most of the average athlete should be able to pass.

It's not a simple pass/fail. Where you rank in the physical tests matters. This isn't like going down to your local enlistment office and just meeting minimum requirements.

But just keep making up stuff to denigrate the academies, loser.

West Point uses a formula to rank candidates. Generally, the breakdown is roughly:

60% Academic: GPA, Class Rank, and SAT/ACT scores.
30% Leadership: Extracurriculars, teacher evaluations, and the Congressional Nomination.
10% Physical: The CFA score.

Nothing really much different from regular colleges.
Their test scores are relatively lower than competitive colleges.

Stop fabricating.

I think the trick is that the test scores are relatively lower than competitive colleges in conjunction with other requirements:

Tests are mandatory, so the bottom of the distribution shows up in the report. E.g. UVA's 25th percentile SAT is ~1410. But almost half of incoming UVA students are test optional! Not implausible that the true "25th percentile" number at UVA is much lower than the Naval Academy's 1200.

No extra time on tests. This knocks the "competitive college" submitted test averages down by 50 points or more.

Prep time for tests & etc. is limited because you need to be on the practice field with your sports team.

Has to be in good health.

Has to be in shape.

Has to be disciplined enough to not have been in too much trouble, while at the same time having enough testosterone to meet the physical requirements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is a small subset of people who are very good athletes, have good grades and want to be in the military.

This. And the ability to get a congressional nomination.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are not top students. Average SAT is relatively low.
Also the physical test is not that hard that most of the average athlete should be able to pass.

You have no idea what you're talking about. The physical tests (plural!) are very challenging. For the Naval Academy last year, even recruits scoring in the top group of the physical tests weren't guaranteed admission.

I know one female who scored in the top 5% overall who was waitlisted and got in over the Summer. She was an excellent student and serious athlete who was in the top group for all the physical tests. The academies are elite.

They are not top students. Average SAT is relatively low.
Also the physical test is not that hard that most of the average athlete should be able to pass.

"Low" relative to what, Ivies?

As someone else said, have to be healthy, and not just currently healthy, as they also look at medical history. Several conditions may take the applicant out of the running if they can't secure a waiver. Also, I don't think you can be taking any prescription meds, either, including for ADHD, psych meds, etc. Standardized tests mandatory and without the accommodation of extra time, if I'm not mistaken.

OP and others compared to Ivies, but low relative to competitive T50 T60 private colleges.

They are well rounded kids with character, but you can found plenty of them in other colleges as well as the selection criteria is nothing much different.