Worth gaming the system?

[Anonymous]

For humanities majors, ivy bound kids from our private school do not take Calculus BC. There are unofficial stem track and humanities track at our school. The humanities kids still take some Calculus but not at the BC level. They may take intro to Calc, which is two levels down from Advanced Calculus (equivalent to BC). Humanities kids take high level humanities courses, still designated as the highest rigor in counselor recommendation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is a paid peer tutor at an Ivy for the equivalent of Calculus BC and DCUM would be shocked at how little math many kids know when they arrive and how poorly many of them do.

This is why Ivy grads are not getting the jobs that they used to be first in line for.

While some legacies are smart the one legacy a top school took from our private school was the bottom 10%. It was shocking because the top kids were denied but parents are donors. So I can beleive tbat kids can be pretty bad at top schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It was reported only about 50% admits at ivy have finished AP Calculus BC or above. The idea that ivy always requires highest rigor is fictional. I don’t understand why some people insist on this highest-rigor agenda that is not supported by evidence.

It is supported by evidence. You need to remember context. No BC available then no BC needed. The point is that one needs to take the most difficult curriculum available at your school.

Not in every field. The transcript should make sense.

Oh and most of us here aren’t stem. Stop with thinking .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid is a paid peer tutor at an Ivy for the equivalent of Calculus BC and DCUM would be shocked at how little math many kids know when they arrive and how poorly many of them do.

Many public high schools are not really teaching much, even in AP Calculus BC class. You get all these straight A public school students into top 20, but their performance is mediocre. Recent reports on UC San Diego reveals the true story.

[Anonymous]

Solomon consulting strategy is similar. Get into a major where you are under represented and then switch. The risk is you may not be able to switch and you are stuck.

Regarding GPA, it matters the most. Rigor is very subjective

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is a paid peer tutor at an Ivy for the equivalent of Calculus BC and DCUM would be shocked at how little math many kids know when they arrive and how poorly many of them do.

Sounds like they're teaching the legacies and recruited athletes.

No, many if not most of the legacies and athletes at Ivies are private school kids and they're well prepared. A ton of both groups are from top boarding schools.

It's the kids from public that struggle. Mostly middle America.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Solomon consulting strategy is similar. Get into a major where you are under represented and then switch. The risk is you may not be able to switch and you are stuck.

Regarding GPA, it matters the most. Rigor is very subjective

What is….”incorrect advice for $1000 Alex”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In your experience, is it worth gaming the system by taking easier classes in high school to keep a very high GPA, just to improve chances of getting into a T20 or Ivy? Then once admitted, switching into a different major?

I recently heard about several students who entered T20 schools with less competitive or undersubscribed majors. Their plan was to move into premed after enrollment. But during freshman year they ran into the typical STEM weed-out courses, calculus, general chemistry, and physics. Many of them struggled and some had to abandon the premed track.

On the other hand, what about students who took the most rigorous courses in high school but ended up with a lower GPA and attended a non-T20 college? Do they tend to be more successful on the premed track because they are already used to the workload and difficulty?

For those who have seen this play out, does this strategy actually work in the long run? Or does avoiding rigorous coursework in high school end up making the transition to college stem or econ much harder?

Same poster that started the "Rigor" thread yesterday. That poster also knows SEVERAL T20 students.

[Anonymous]

It’s up to you. We didn’t and dd needed up taking 4 aps per semester junior and senior years, even in her not strong subjects. she got a lot of b’s in the ap classes, and the workload affected some of her regular ones. Ended up with a4.0w, 3.6 uw. She’s getting denied from non elite schools we thought she was a shoe in for. The kids with tiger moms that gamed the system to maximize gpa are getting to better schools. But my spouse says her life and she should pursue her own path. Your call.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For humanities majors, ivy bound kids from our private school do not take Calculus BC. There are unofficial stem track and humanities track at our school. The humanities kids still take some Calculus but not at the BC level. They may take intro to Calc, which is two levels down from Advanced Calculus (equivalent to BC). Humanities kids take high level humanities courses, still designated as the highest rigor in counselor recommendation.

This is the same at our public. DC was accepted to Ivy with two levels down from the most advanced track. It was definitely a risk that he took, but it was the right choice for him (not gaming the system... he had moved into a new district with a new curriculum and wasn't prepared for the accelerated track). But taking risks and staying true to yourself and abilities paid off and DC was accepted in the early round.

I see so many kids in my younger kids grades already taking AP courses online and doing all kinds of stuff (in 8th grade!) No matter how many times counselors and others explain to them that it's not about the number of APs or how fast you go, they don't list. In some ways, it makes it easier if they all focus on the number of APs so that the rest of us can focus on what's really important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s up to you. We didn’t and dd needed up taking 4 aps per semester junior and senior years, even in her not strong subjects. she got a lot of b’s in the ap classes, and the workload affected some of her regular ones. Ended up with a4.0w, 3.6 uw. She’s getting denied from non elite schools we thought she was a shoe in for. The kids with tiger moms that gamed the system to maximize gpa are getting to better schools. But my spouse says her life and she should pursue her own path. Your call.

This isn't what the OP meant. The poster said that kids are applying to less competitive majors and then trying to switch once accepted.

My kid was the same as yours. Average kid that wanted to take some AP classes. GPA suffered. Sort of worked out. Dinged at number one choice but got in everywhere else. I think it was because he had some rigor in spite of a lower GPA. He was also very reasonable with his list of schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For humanities majors, ivy bound kids from our private school do not take Calculus BC. There are unofficial stem track and humanities track at our school. The humanities kids still take some Calculus but not at the BC level. They may take intro to Calc, which is two levels down from Advanced Calculus (equivalent to BC). Humanities kids take high level humanities courses, still designated as the highest rigor in counselor recommendation.

This is the same at our public. DC was accepted to Ivy with two levels down from the most advanced track. It was definitely a risk that he took, but it was the right choice for him (not gaming the system... he had moved into a new district with a new curriculum and wasn't prepared for the accelerated track). But taking risks and staying true to yourself and abilities paid off and DC was accepted in the early round.

I see so many kids in my younger kids grades already taking AP courses online and doing all kinds of stuff (in 8th grade!) No matter how many times counselors and others explain to them that it's not about the number of APs or how fast you go, they don't list. In some ways, it makes it easier if they all focus on the number of APs so that the rest of us can focus on what's really important.

100% agree. Race to nowhere.

Two kids at T20 (Ivy and Ivy+).......neither had top rigor in the conventional sense (max advanced courses) but did take all the rigor + independent school-based research to match their non-STEM vertical/academic interest.
Private HS. Neither is STEM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A girl in my DC’s class did this. She literally told her that she will apply for an undersubscribed major and then transfer to the most competitive major once admitted. She took the same classes as my DD and had similar grades. They both were in AP calc A/B in senior year. The girl also got help with EC’s (book publishing etc) from her parents. Ended up at HYP and then successfully transferred to the most prestigious department.. so yes u can game the system.. people do it all the time..

What is the 'most prestigious' department? at HYP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is a paid peer tutor at an Ivy for the equivalent of Calculus BC and DCUM would be shocked at how little math many kids know when they arrive and how poorly many of them do.

Many public high schools are not really teaching much, even in AP Calculus BC class. You get all these straight A public school students into top 20, but their performance is mediocre. Recent reports on UC San Diego reveals the true story.

Isn't that what the AP exam for? Some sort of standardized measurement of how well the kids know the material, separate from the grade they received for the class at their high school?

I would think that the kids who get 5s on the AP Calc BC exam know what they're doing. Especially those who did so without private tutoring or crazy cram sessions in the final month before the AP.

The fact is that some kids are really great at math. Even future humanities majors who attend [gasp!] public schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A girl in my DC’s class did this. She literally told her that she will apply for an undersubscribed major and then transfer to the most competitive major once admitted. She took the same classes as my DD and had similar grades. They both were in AP calc A/B in senior year. The girl also got help with EC’s (book publishing etc) from her parents. Ended up at HYP and then successfully transferred to the most prestigious department.. so yes u can game the system.. people do it all the time..

What is the 'most prestigious' department? at HYP

MA5?