masters/post bacc in econ with no econ background

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If she doesn't like economics she will be miserable.

A good master's in econ program will be highly mathematical.

I think terminal master's in economics are not as common as PhD track.

Does your DD have a policy interests suitable for exploring in graduate school?

You both should also read this 2020 blog post by a professional economist.

https://macromomblog.com/2020/07/29/economics-is-a-disgrace/

She could take math and advanced econ classes in community college while working after college.

The blogger above was a very bitter person, economist or not.

PP. That bitter person is one of the only famous American female economists. I found that blog entry cross-referenced in an article about Larry Summers and the Epstein fallout. Larry Summers is one of the economists who belittled that woman. OP is thinking about a Master's degree in Econ for a female student that didn't even like economics. I think it's good to have eyes wide open on various professions.

There is a huge difference between studying economics at the Master's level and going into a career in policy and what that poster is talking about which is really the world/domain of the 1% of economists.

OP was originally asking about Master's degrees in economics. The comments in the blog apply to a variety of schools. There is a pecking order of schools. Schools in the DC area may not be at the top of the food chain but they aren't at the bottom either. I've worked with people (men) who dropped out of economics graduate programs. I would not recommend the degree to someone who doesn't like economics and the math skills would definitely need to be fresh and competitive. Many economics graduate students are from Asia and their educational systems are mathematically rigorous and they arrive prepared. Quick and dirty Googling suggests Economics is about 70% international graduate students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you for all of the information!

DD is a second semester senior without a job - she is looking at all jobs in the political science and adjacent fields, and doesn’t know what she wants to do in the big picture as she really has no idea what options are in her field. I don’t think that is unusual, right? She hasn’t been exposed to any of that in her university, it’s an academic program. Her internship last summer was in state level politics and she didn’t enjoy it. Her job search is now focused on think tanks, research and government affairs positions, and the like- I suspect she doesn’t even quite know what those jobs entail (I don’t either) but you have to start somewhere and learn as you go.

This has come up because in the course of job hunting, there have been a number of positions or organizations that she thinks sound interesting, but the candidate qualifications often list a background in economics and she is just a political science major (with almost no economics or math classes). She is discouraged about that, and I respond to her not to count out thise jobs/careers but to think of ways to plug that gap in her resume. This led me to wonder if she could pursue a post-bacc or masters in economics. (Relatedly and for example, if she wants to pursue a phd in political science, she would not have any of the math required, but her advisor has suggested she could do a post-bacc or cerificate in applied math to plug that gap before applying to phd programs.)

I’ll be honest I don’t know what a masters in public policy entails and it sounds like”fluff” to me, but I am completely unknowledgeable in this field so I’ll suggest she consider that.

In any event her focus is now on getting a job- I just want her to know if she finds that the positions that hold most appeal to her require some econ background, whether she has paths for filling that gap in her skill set.

Thank you again from the OP.

This additional context is helpful.

Your daughter isn’t screwed because of her degree, but she’s looking in the wrong places. Think tanks and research jobs are going to want math and econ because statistics and econometrics underpin empirical research. A person with a bachelor’s is going to be doing a lot of data work. There may be some in the international or development space that have more programmatic roles (Freedom House and Open Society come to mind) that don’t require quantitative skills for everything. But research analyst at Brookings or Peterson? Forget it, they want you to do the data work for them.

This is also a credential-heavy space. A master’s can be a minimum for many jobs. That’s why an MPP isn’t just “fluff” as you put it—it’s often the easiest way to get past the gatekeeping, and with better career links than many econ master programs.

There are tons of political science grads here and they aren’t getting jobs because of their quant record. Look at jobs on the Hill, trade associations, fellowships in the federal government for new grads (at least a few are hiring again). Some stuff may not sound like the coolest thing ever - that’s okay, you often just need a foot in the door and something to put on your resume at the beginning.

This type of work experience also usually helps boost an MPP or similar application. It looks like you posted a description from the Kennedy school’s program. Something like that might be tough with zero math or econ, but there are others. And as other commenters have said, there are programs for picking up math or econ credits. SAIS used to allow people to enroll in individual courses. Illinois used to have an online math certificate that covered everything up through advanced math (but you could get individual course credits). Search around.

OP, I am a former poly sci major, with a master's in public policy and a long career in government. The PP above has given you the most helpful advice on this thread. Your DD is not a candidate for the kinds of research/analytic roles she is looking at. But there are other jobs out there.

Tell us more about this state internship that she didn't like. What was she doing? What didn't she like about it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you for all of the information!

DD is a second semester senior without a job - she is looking at all jobs in the political science and adjacent fields, and doesn’t know what she wants to do in the big picture as she really has no idea what options are in her field. I don’t think that is unusual, right? She hasn’t been exposed to any of that in her university, it’s an academic program. Her internship last summer was in state level politics and she didn’t enjoy it. Her job search is now focused on think tanks, research and government affairs positions, and the like- I suspect she doesn’t even quite know what those jobs entail (I don’t either) but you have to start somewhere and learn as you go.

This has come up because in the course of job hunting, there have been a number of positions or organizations that she thinks sound interesting, but the candidate qualifications often list a background in economics and she is just a political science major (with almost no economics or math classes). She is discouraged about that, and I respond to her not to count out thise jobs/careers but to think of ways to plug that gap in her resume. This led me to wonder if she could pursue a post-bacc or masters in economics. (Relatedly and for example, if she wants to pursue a phd in political science, she would not have any of the math required, but her advisor has suggested she could do a post-bacc or cerificate in applied math to plug that gap before applying to phd programs.)

I’ll be honest I don’t know what a masters in public policy entails and it sounds like”fluff” to me, but I am completely unknowledgeable in this field so I’ll suggest she consider that.

In any event her focus is now on getting a job- I just want her to know if she finds that the positions that hold most appeal to her require some econ background, whether she has paths for filling that gap in her skill set.

Thank you again from the OP.

This additional context is helpful.

Your daughter isn’t screwed because of her degree, but she’s looking in the wrong places. Think tanks and research jobs are going to want math and econ because statistics and econometrics underpin empirical research. A person with a bachelor’s is going to be doing a lot of data work. There may be some in the international or development space that have more programmatic roles (Freedom House and Open Society come to mind) that don’t require quantitative skills for everything. But research analyst at Brookings or Peterson? Forget it, they want you to do the data work for them.

This is also a credential-heavy space. A master’s can be a minimum for many jobs. That’s why an MPP isn’t just “fluff” as you put it—it’s often the easiest way to get past the gatekeeping, and with better career links than many econ master programs.

There are tons of political science grads here and they aren’t getting jobs because of their quant record. Look at jobs on the Hill, trade associations, fellowships in the federal government for new grads (at least a few are hiring again). Some stuff may not sound like the coolest thing ever - that’s okay, you often just need a foot in the door and something to put on your resume at the beginning.

This type of work experience also usually helps boost an MPP or similar application. It looks like you posted a description from the Kennedy school’s program. Something like that might be tough with zero math or econ, but there are others. And as other commenters have said, there are programs for picking up math or econ credits. SAIS used to allow people to enroll in individual courses. Illinois used to have an online math certificate that covered everything up through advanced math (but you could get individual course credits). Search around.

Just to clarify, think tanks do hire early caree research assistants with non-quantitative degrees for work on domestic policy/politics and foreign policy, but those jobs are relatively few and far between and there's tons of competition. And some will require other skills, such as specific languages.

Don't push your kid to do a master's in economics (or an MPP or other policy degree like SAIS) right out of undergrad. It's not a good use of time and money. Your kid needs some hands-on experience somewhere to figure out what to do with her life; in a few years she can look to some graduate program as a way to specialize / level up to the next career stage.

Fwiw I also have a kid graduating in May who does not have a FT job lined up yet; he understands his 5th class for the spring semester is applying everywhere there may be an opening. It's going to be a very tough job market for all new graduates. The Trump administration has decimated the federal bureaucracy and many entry paths are much touhger now. I just talked to a senior person at a major consulting firm who said they had cut their internships by 50% and similar for new hires.

[Anonymous]

I went to SAIS and got a master's in international economics. They made me take a calculus boot camp before I started. Wouldn't recommend though - a master's in econ is essentially useless!

————
I agree with this. If the goal is policy do a PhD or not at all. Even then tough to get a policy role. If the student does a masters probably better to do an MBA. Determine whether the student could get admitted to a top program. If not may not be worth the money.

[Anonymous]

She can take the math at a community college before spplying

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you for all of the information!

DD is a second semester senior without a job - she is looking at all jobs in the political science and adjacent fields, and doesn’t know what she wants to do in the big picture as she really has no idea what options are in her field. I don’t think that is unusual, right? She hasn’t been exposed to any of that in her university, it’s an academic program. Her internship last summer was in state level politics and she didn’t enjoy it. Her job search is now focused on think tanks, research and government affairs positions, and the like- I suspect she doesn’t even quite know what those jobs entail (I don’t either) but you have to start somewhere and learn as you go.

This has come up because in the course of job hunting, there have been a number of positions or organizations that she thinks sound interesting, but the candidate qualifications often list a background in economics and she is just a political science major (with almost no economics or math classes). She is discouraged about that, and I respond to her not to count out thise jobs/careers but to think of ways to plug that gap in her resume. This led me to wonder if she could pursue a post-bacc or masters in economics. (Relatedly and for example, if she wants to pursue a phd in political science, she would not have any of the math required, but her advisor has suggested she could do a post-bacc or cerificate in applied math to plug that gap before applying to phd programs.)

I’ll be honest I don’t know what a masters in public policy entails and it sounds like”fluff” to me, but I am completely unknowledgeable in this field so I’ll suggest she consider that.

In any event her focus is now on getting a job- I just want her to know if she finds that the positions that hold most appeal to her require some econ background, whether she has paths for filling that gap in her skill set.

Thank you again from the OP.

This additional context is helpful.

Your daughter isn’t screwed because of her degree, but she’s looking in the wrong places. Think tanks and research jobs are going to want math and econ because statistics and econometrics underpin empirical research. A person with a bachelor’s is going to be doing a lot of data work. There may be some in the international or development space that have more programmatic roles (Freedom House and Open Society come to mind) that don’t require quantitative skills for everything. But research analyst at Brookings or Peterson? Forget it, they want you to do the data work for them.

This is also a credential-heavy space. A master’s can be a minimum for many jobs. That’s why an MPP isn’t just “fluff” as you put it—it’s often the easiest way to get past the gatekeeping, and with better career links than many econ master programs.

There are tons of political science grads here and they aren’t getting jobs because of their quant record. Look at jobs on the Hill, trade associations, fellowships in the federal government for new grads (at least a few are hiring again). Some stuff may not sound like the coolest thing ever - that’s okay, you often just need a foot in the door and something to put on your resume at the beginning.

This type of work experience also usually helps boost an MPP or similar application. It looks like you posted a description from the Kennedy school’s program. Something like that might be tough with zero math or econ, but there are others. And as other commenters have said, there are programs for picking up math or econ credits. SAIS used to allow people to enroll in individual courses. Illinois used to have an online math certificate that covered everything up through advanced math (but you could get individual course credits). Search around.

OP, I am a former poly sci major, with a master's in public policy and a long career in government. The PP above has given you the most helpful advice on this thread. Your DD is not a candidate for the kinds of research/analytic roles she is looking at. But there are other jobs out there.

Tell us more about this state internship that she didn't like. What was she doing? What didn't she like about it?

Thanks again to all of you from the OP. Answering this question, she interned for a state senator, and basically answered constituent calls and emails, filed, etc, and got to attend a few hearings. She found it pretty boring but I don’t know if that was just because it was a “scut” summer internship.

I think her real interest is political strategy, but I don’t think she has any idea what types of jobs lead to that. She also is interested in policy, but I think less from the technical perspective (eg, she has broad interests versus being wonk in energy or transportation or whatever) and more from the perspective of, “what is needed, and what is the best way get legislation in area passed.”

She’s been applying to think tanks, associations, nonprofits, etc to any job that pops up under a search for political science majors. She has worked with political science professors on their research since early in college, and is writing a (nonrequired) thesis so she does have research and writing skills. She is also fluent in Spanish.

She is not applying to economics or any masters programs now- she wants to work for a few years and figure out next steps from there. I just wanted to start to understand can she plug academic gaps in her skill set - like in econ - after college.

Thank you all very much!

[Anonymous]

I think she will find something, but if she doesn't, her best entry into political strategy is working on a campaign. Campaign season will be in full swing soon. Even a committed volunteering position would be valuable.

[Anonymous]

She can take intro econ courses at community college. Cheap. See what economics is.

https://courses.vccs.edu/colleges/nova/courses/ECO-Economics

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think she will find something, but if she doesn't, her best entry into political strategy is working on a campaign. Campaign season will be in full swing soon. Even a committed volunteering position would be valuable.

+1. Political strategy or policy from a perspective of “what is needed and how to get legislation passed” leans overwhelmingly toward campaigns, the Hill, and trade associations. First two may be unpaid or lowly paid for a bit and, like her internship, may seem boring at first (or at least involve more menial tasks). That’s part of paying your dues, which is still a concept in this space, and there are even people on the Hill with JDs that start at a fairly low level. Few of these jobs should care about math and econ though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you for all of the information!

DD is a second semester senior without a job - she is looking at all jobs in the political science and adjacent fields, and doesn’t know what she wants to do in the big picture as she really has no idea what options are in her field. I don’t think that is unusual, right? She hasn’t been exposed to any of that in her university, it’s an academic program. Her internship last summer was in state level politics and she didn’t enjoy it. Her job search is now focused on think tanks, research and government affairs positions, and the like- I suspect she doesn’t even quite know what those jobs entail (I don’t either) but you have to start somewhere and learn as you go.

This has come up because in the course of job hunting, there have been a number of positions or organizations that she thinks sound interesting, but the candidate qualifications often list a background in economics and she is just a political science major (with almost no economics or math classes). She is discouraged about that, and I respond to her not to count out thise jobs/careers but to think of ways to plug that gap in her resume. This led me to wonder if she could pursue a post-bacc or masters in economics. (Relatedly and for example, if she wants to pursue a phd in political science, she would not have any of the math required, but her advisor has suggested she could do a post-bacc or cerificate in applied math to plug that gap before applying to phd programs.)

I’ll be honest I don’t know what a masters in public policy entails and it sounds like”fluff” to me, but I am completely unknowledgeable in this field so I’ll suggest she consider that.

In any event her focus is now on getting a job- I just want her to know if she finds that the positions that hold most appeal to her require some econ background, whether she has paths for filling that gap in her skill set.

Thank you again from the OP.

This additional context is helpful.

Your daughter isn’t screwed because of her degree, but she’s looking in the wrong places. Think tanks and research jobs are going to want math and econ because statistics and econometrics underpin empirical research. A person with a bachelor’s is going to be doing a lot of data work. There may be some in the international or development space that have more programmatic roles (Freedom House and Open Society come to mind) that don’t require quantitative skills for everything. But research analyst at Brookings or Peterson? Forget it, they want you to do the data work for them.

This is also a credential-heavy space. A master’s can be a minimum for many jobs. That’s why an MPP isn’t just “fluff” as you put it—it’s often the easiest way to get past the gatekeeping, and with better career links than many econ master programs.

There are tons of political science grads here and they aren’t getting jobs because of their quant record. Look at jobs on the Hill, trade associations, fellowships in the federal government for new grads (at least a few are hiring again). Some stuff may not sound like the coolest thing ever - that’s okay, you often just need a foot in the door and something to put on your resume at the beginning.

This type of work experience also usually helps boost an MPP or similar application. It looks like you posted a description from the Kennedy school’s program. Something like that might be tough with zero math or econ, but there are others. And as other commenters have said, there are programs for picking up math or econ credits. SAIS used to allow people to enroll in individual courses. Illinois used to have an online math certificate that covered everything up through advanced math (but you could get individual course credits). Search around.

OP, I am a former poly sci major, with a master's in public policy and a long career in government. The PP above has given you the most helpful advice on this thread. Your DD is not a candidate for the kinds of research/analytic roles she is looking at. But there are other jobs out there.

Tell us more about this state internship that she didn't like. What was she doing? What didn't she like about it?

Thanks again to all of you from the OP. Answering this question, she interned for a state senator, and basically answered constituent calls and emails, filed, etc, and got to attend a few hearings. She found it pretty boring but I don’t know if that was just because it was a “scut” summer internship.

I think her real interest is political strategy, but I don’t think she has any idea what types of jobs lead to that. She also is interested in policy, but I think less from the technical perspective (eg, she has broad interests versus being wonk in energy or transportation or whatever) and more from the perspective of, “what is needed, and what is the best way get legislation in area passed.”

She’s been applying to think tanks, associations, nonprofits, etc to any job that pops up under a search for political science majors. She has worked with political science professors on their research since early in college, and is writing a (nonrequired) thesis so she does have research and writing skills. She is also fluent in Spanish.

She is not applying to economics or any masters programs now- she wants to work for a few years and figure out next steps from there. I just wanted to start to understand can she plug academic gaps in her skill set - like in econ - after college.

Thank you all very much!

All internships and early career opportuities are going to be "scut" jobs, OP. Your DD has to adjust her expectations. If she's interested in political strategy, she should target opportunities on the Hill or in the gazillion consulting/political shops in DC. Think tanks are nice gigs, but unless it's one that's associated with a political party (CAP for mainstream Ds, Heritage for Trump Rs) it won't provide an easy pathway into a USG job unless she gets really lucky.

I'd advise her what I'm advising my own kid - if she has not found anything and she can afford it, volunteering on a campaign is a good way to get an inside track to future opportunities. My DS who is graduating this year did some volunteer work 2 years ago for a Senate campaign and by the end of the summer, they offered a paid gig (on the campaign, not permanent, and he was a rising junior so it wasn't an option.)

[Anonymous]

I have decades of experience in political, public policy, and strategy work. I’ve been on campaigns, on Capitol Hill, at a trade association, in-house at a corporation, a multi-client firm and more. Entry level jobs will be scut work, much like the internship, but you don’t have to stay there forever. Before investing additional money into further classes, I’d recommend applying widely for jobs, and, instead of waiting for the perfect job with the perfect salary, just start working. You’ll make connections and figure out if this is really what you want to do Many of these jobs seem to be listed on the more common places such as indeed, but not all of them are there. There are some more niche job listing sites like Traversejobs.com, TomManatosjobs.command idealist.org.

[Anonymous]

Tell DD that she never saw the entry level interns on those West Wing or House of Cards reruns because they were in the basement doing scut work.
The experienced PPs are right. Dues must be paid it's part of the culture and web of trust.

[Anonymous]

Masters in Public Policy has no prereqs, and will include econ

[Anonymous]

Think Tanks are mostly dead, replaced by political influencers. The few that remain are the ones are are political operatives like Heritage and Hoover and Federalist.

[Anonymous]

Much easier to get an MBA from any UG major than an econ masters. You could do an MBA with finance concentration, which is an adjacent degree (which, historically, at least led to higher paying jobs).