masters/post bacc in econ with no econ background

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You'll generally have to take certain math, econ, and stats courses first before applying. Here's NYU's guidelines for a strong application:
https://as.nyu.edu/departments/econ/graduate/ma/faq.html?challenge=d06e90d7-4d8f-4b88-9d8c-10b73beb60f1

OP here. I looked up a masters in public policy as well for comparison, and that, too, requires, “Evidence of quantitative proficiency such as success in undergraduate-level economics, statistics, or calculus courses, regardless of your undergraduate major.”

So it seems that a master in economics and masters in public policy both require a strong foundation in math/economics. Unless there is a post-bacc option for math and economics classes, it sounds like my daughter won’t be able to pursue either degree since she didn’t really take math or economics in undergrad.

I now feel badly that she and we didn’t realize how important these classes are to have good job options in the political science field. She doesn’t like math, but always was a strong math student so I believe could have handled the classes in college.

[Anonymous]

PP. I was an economics major who came late to the major and I felt I needed more quantitative economics after graduation.

I ended up taking 6 college credits of Econometrics from a DC institution. That's the type of course I would recommend. (That school has repositioned and doesn't offer that anymore or I would recommend it. Because it was adequate and affordable, with an official transcript.)

If your kid wants to review AP Micro and Macro, here's a cheap way to brush up.

https://ucscout.org/courses?field_level_value%5Bap%5D=ap&field_course_categories_target_id%5B26%5D=26&combine=

If you are in Maryland, see what's possible at College Park.

I wouldn't recommend going straight into a Master's degree program. I think it's better to try various low paying jobs in DC and see what sparks intellectually. That's kind of how it's done in DC. Like starting in the mailroom...

Also to keep in mind, when the next Democratic administration comes in, there may be a rebuilding of the federal government. I worked in a policy directorate in a Cabinet agency long ago. It was a good job in the elder Bush and Clinton administrations. There were BA Policy Analysts and Regulatory Affairs Analysts in that group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If she doesn't like economics she will be miserable.

A good master's in econ program will be highly mathematical.

I think terminal master's in economics are not as common as PhD track.

Does your DD have a policy interests suitable for exploring in graduate school?

You both should also read this 2020 blog post by a professional economist.

https://macromomblog.com/2020/07/29/economics-is-a-disgrace/

She could take math and advanced econ classes in community college while working after college.

The blogger above was a very bitter person, economist or not.

PP. That bitter person is one of the only famous American female economists. I found that blog entry cross-referenced in an article about Larry Summers and the Epstein fallout. Larry Summers is one of the economists who belittled that woman. OP is thinking about a Master's degree in Econ for a female student that didn't even like economics. I think it's good to have eyes wide open on various professions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If she doesn't like economics she will be miserable.

A good master's in econ program will be highly mathematical.

I think terminal master's in economics are not as common as PhD track.

Does your DD have a policy interests suitable for exploring in graduate school?

You both should also read this 2020 blog post by a professional economist.

https://macromomblog.com/2020/07/29/economics-is-a-disgrace/

She could take math and advanced econ classes in community college while working after college.

The blogger above was a very bitter person, economist or not.

PP. That bitter person is one of the only famous American female economists. I found that blog entry cross-referenced in an article about Larry Summers and the Epstein fallout. Larry Summers is one of the economists who belittled that woman. OP is thinking about a Master's degree in Econ for a female student that didn't even like economics. I think it's good to have eyes wide open on various professions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If she doesn't like economics she will be miserable.

A good master's in econ program will be highly mathematical.

I think terminal master's in economics are not as common as PhD track.

Does your DD have a policy interests suitable for exploring in graduate school?

You both should also read this 2020 blog post by a professional economist.

https://macromomblog.com/2020/07/29/economics-is-a-disgrace/

She could take math and advanced econ classes in community college while working after college.

The blogger above was a very bitter person, economist or not.

It sounds like her math foundation was good. She might find the intermediate econ sequence more interesting than the intro sequence (with minimal math). In most top colleges, there’s a more mathy intermediate sequence (which should be a better fit for her) in addition to the standard sequence. She could take multivar calc and linear alg again to refresh her math, plus stat and econometrics. Since she’s not planning to do a Ph.D., there’s no need to go beyond that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If she doesn't like economics she will be miserable.

A good master's in econ program will be highly mathematical.

I think terminal master's in economics are not as common as PhD track.

Does your DD have a policy interests suitable for exploring in graduate school?

You both should also read this 2020 blog post by a professional economist.

https://macromomblog.com/2020/07/29/economics-is-a-disgrace/

She could take math and advanced econ classes in community college while working after college.

The blogger above was a very bitter person, economist or not.

PP. That bitter person is one of the only famous American female economists. I found that blog entry cross-referenced in an article about Larry Summers and the Epstein fallout. Larry Summers is one of the economists who belittled that woman. OP is thinking about a Master's degree in Econ for a female student that didn't even like economics. I think it's good to have eyes wide open on various professions.

There is a huge difference between studying economics at the Master's level and going into a career in policy and what that poster is talking about which is really the world/domain of the 1% of economists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you for all of the information!

DD is a second semester senior without a job - she is looking at all jobs in the political science and adjacent fields, and doesn’t know what she wants to do in the big picture as she really has no idea what options are in her field. I don’t think that is unusual, right? She hasn’t been exposed to any of that in her university, it’s an academic program. Her internship last summer was in state level politics and she didn’t enjoy it. Her job search is now focused on think tanks, research and government affairs positions, and the like- I suspect she doesn’t even quite know what those jobs entail (I don’t either) but you have to start somewhere and learn as you go.

This has come up because in the course of job hunting, there have been a number of positions or organizations that she thinks sound interesting, but the candidate qualifications often list a background in economics and she is just a political science major (with almost no economics or math classes). She is discouraged about that, and I respond to her not to count out thise jobs/careers but to think of ways to plug that gap in her resume. This led me to wonder if she could pursue a post-bacc or masters in economics. (Relatedly and for example, if she wants to pursue a phd in political science, she would not have any of the math required, but her advisor has suggested she could do a post-bacc or cerificate in applied math to plug that gap before applying to phd programs.)

I’ll be honest I don’t know what a masters in public policy entails and it sounds like”fluff” to me, but I am completely unknowledgeable in this field so I’ll suggest she consider that.

In any event her focus is now on getting a job- I just want her to know if she finds that the positions that hold most appeal to her require some econ background, whether she has paths for filling that gap in her skill set.

Thank you again from the OP.

This additional context is helpful.

Your daughter isn’t screwed because of her degree, but she’s looking in the wrong places. Think tanks and research jobs are going to want math and econ because statistics and econometrics underpin empirical research. A person with a bachelor’s is going to be doing a lot of data work. There may be some in the international or development space that have more programmatic roles (Freedom House and Open Society come to mind) that don’t require quantitative skills for everything. But research analyst at Brookings or Peterson? Forget it, they want you to do the data work for them.

This is also a credential-heavy space. A master’s can be a minimum for many jobs. That’s why an MPP isn’t just “fluff” as you put it—it’s often the easiest way to get past the gatekeeping, and with better career links than many econ master programs.

There are tons of political science grads here and they aren’t getting jobs because of their quant record. Look at jobs on the Hill, trade associations, fellowships in the federal government for new grads (at least a few are hiring again). Some stuff may not sound like the coolest thing ever - that’s okay, you often just need a foot in the door and something to put on your resume at the beginning.

This type of work experience also usually helps boost an MPP or similar application. It looks like you posted a description from the Kennedy school’s program. Something like that might be tough with zero math or econ, but there are others. And as other commenters have said, there are programs for picking up math or econ credits. SAIS used to allow people to enroll in individual courses. Illinois used to have an online math certificate that covered everything up through advanced math (but you could get individual course credits). Search around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you for all of the information!

DD is a second semester senior without a job - she is looking at all jobs in the political science and adjacent fields, and doesn’t know what she wants to do in the big picture as she really has no idea what options are in her field. I don’t think that is unusual, right? She hasn’t been exposed to any of that in her university, it’s an academic program. Her internship last summer was in state level politics and she didn’t enjoy it. Her job search is now focused on think tanks, research and government affairs positions, and the like- I suspect she doesn’t even quite know what those jobs entail (I don’t either) but you have to start somewhere and learn as you go.

This has come up because in the course of job hunting, there have been a number of positions or organizations that she thinks sound interesting, but the candidate qualifications often list a background in economics and she is just a political science major (with almost no economics or math classes). She is discouraged about that, and I respond to her not to count out thise jobs/careers but to think of ways to plug that gap in her resume. This led me to wonder if she could pursue a post-bacc or masters in economics. (Relatedly and for example, if she wants to pursue a phd in political science, she would not have any of the math required, but her advisor has suggested she could do a post-bacc or cerificate in applied math to plug that gap before applying to phd programs.)

I’ll be honest I don’t know what a masters in public policy entails and it sounds like”fluff” to me, but I am completely unknowledgeable in this field so I’ll suggest she consider that.

In any event her focus is now on getting a job- I just want her to know if she finds that the positions that hold most appeal to her require some econ background, whether she has paths for filling that gap in her skill set.

Thank you again from the OP.

This additional context is helpful.

Your daughter isn’t screwed because of her degree, but she’s looking in the wrong places. Think tanks and research jobs are going to want math and econ because statistics and econometrics underpin empirical research. A person with a bachelor’s is going to be doing a lot of data work. There may be some in the international or development space that have more programmatic roles (Freedom House and Open Society come to mind) that don’t require quantitative skills for everything. But research analyst at Brookings or Peterson? Forget it, they want you to do the data work for them.

This is also a credential-heavy space. A master’s can be a minimum for many jobs. That’s why an MPP isn’t just “fluff” as you put it—it’s often the easiest way to get past the gatekeeping, and with better career links than many econ master programs.

There are tons of political science grads here and they aren’t getting jobs because of their quant record. Look at jobs on the Hill, trade associations, fellowships in the federal government for new grads (at least a few are hiring again). Some stuff may not sound like the coolest thing ever - that’s okay, you often just need a foot in the door and something to put on your resume at the beginning.

This type of work experience also usually helps boost an MPP or similar application. It looks like you posted a description from the Kennedy school’s program. Something like that might be tough with zero math or econ, but there are others. And as other commenters have said, there are programs for picking up math or econ credits. SAIS used to allow people to enroll in individual courses. Illinois used to have an online math certificate that covered everything up through advanced math (but you could get individual course credits). Search around.

It's also worth mentioning that some employers, like associations, will pay for degrees or additional courses if you work there for a couple of years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College masters program websites may tell you exactly how much econ is expected. Some might even have a pre-masters program for taking those courses - masters programs are cash cows for the university.

Good idea, thank you from OP. Maybe she can do the pre-masters classes at night.

DD has strong aptitude in math, but has never liked nor done well in economics (she took intro and macro in college, they were probably her two worst grades- but she took thru MV calculus in high school and scored 800 on the math portion of the SAT). She would do this to have a grounding in economics to be a stronger candidate for policy jobs.

That will be limiting for a top econ masters particularly if no calculus (ideally MVC and linear algebra) courses were taken in college

[Anonymous]

to the OP, masters in public policy programs are taking applications. She needs to apply now. Many good ones are not past the deadline yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You'll generally have to take certain math, econ, and stats courses first before applying. Here's NYU's guidelines for a strong application:
https://as.nyu.edu/departments/econ/graduate/ma/faq.html?challenge=d06e90d7-4d8f-4b88-9d8c-10b73beb60f1

OP here. I looked up a masters in public policy as well for comparison, and that, too, requires, “Evidence of quantitative proficiency such as success in undergraduate-level economics, statistics, or calculus courses, regardless of your undergraduate major.”

So it seems that a master in economics and masters in public policy both require a strong foundation in math/economics. Unless there is a post-bacc option for math and economics classes, it sounds like my daughter won’t be able to pursue either degree since she didn’t really take math or economics in undergrad.

I now feel badly that she and we didn’t realize how important these classes are to have good job options in the political science field. She doesn’t like math, but always was a strong math student so I believe could have handled the classes in college.

Did she not do statistics at least? Most top colleges with poly sci or PP as undergraduate majors require statistics at a minimum

[Anonymous]

U of Chicago Harris School of Public Policy has a summer math camp with a certificate. Harris also has a 50% admit rate. Not too hard and you leave with a degree that will get you past the front door.

[Anonymous]

OP, figure out exactly what courses she needs, look for a pre-masters program that offers them, or she can take them at a CC (if there's no other way). The door is still wide open, she just needs to get her ducks in a row first.

[Anonymous]

Many schools have masters' in political economy, applied economics, economics policy, or some similarly softer version of the pre-PhD Econ master's.

If she can learn how to do a Lagrangian, she's most of the way there. For more depth, look up the Arizona math camp playlist on YouTube.

[Anonymous]

I went to SAIS and got a master's in international economics. They made me take a calculus boot camp before I started. Wouldn't recommend though - a master's in econ is essentially useless!